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Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?

Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto...

Considering we have a post that Kroothawk posted here that several things are "brand new sculpts", I'd say it's as good as any attempt to be optimistic rather than hurt my head trying to think about GW's business practices.

Normally I try not to agree with Kan *too much* but he is correct in thinking they *could* be adding value to the models!

Will the added value be worth the added price? Probably not but it may lessen the impact.. right?

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?

Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto...

Considering we have a post that Kroothawk posted here that several things are "brand new sculpts", I'd say it's as good as any attempt to be optimistic rather than hurt my head trying to think about GW's business practices.

True, but I sincerely doubt that they will be one of these "brand new sculpts". If you're right, I'll apologise for my pessimism, however I'm not holding my breath until then...

Inanimate wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

Inanimate wrote:So Tyranids are practically off-limits to younger/inexperienced modellers? Feels like they, along with Space Marines, would appeal the most to younger people.

As are all armies with an HQ in their force chart (except SM and CSM).

Slinky wrote:There can't be many armies that you can complete without at least one non-plastic model anyway, surely, given the lack of plastic HQ/Lord options?

So wanting to complete an army now makes you a "veteran", it seems?

I don't really understand why exactly these new "resin" based models would be harder to assemble and paint than the tin-based ones though. I guess that even though they will be promoted as products for "veterans", you'll still see kids using those units. Maybe it has something to do with poisonous dust? I'm just wondering what reason lies behind such a d*ckmove. "LOL, you're just a kid. Why don't you take your diaper-fingers away from these finely sculpted 'Nids, and look into some *pffsht* Space Marines instead!!! ".

They won't be. All it is is a sales ploy to make this so called "Improvement" more tasty to rubes then just coming out and saying, "We're trying to reduce production costs, and keep the same quality. We're going to continue as before, and you people need to be spoonfed to our new way of thinking."

Reason behind the move is purly business. They are changing over to resin based on the cost of ther metals.

To put one over on you and justify the price increase, they call it "Citidal Finecast" in the same way in which they were pushing the "Master class" models line with the recasting of the assorted limited 2d edition and RT era models.

Theres no difference, a models a model, and they put a hat on a pig.


If they would put half of the effort into thier gaming as they are into being completly deceitful, they would have a top notch quality product with no flaws, and 100% customer support.

At this point in time, not only am I not buying any more, I want to know how this practice compares to selling a defective product.

Change over to resin, sure, got that. But thier reasoning is complete bullcrap, and in sticking to this line of P.R. they are opening themselves up for some legal action.

I guess the only fortunate thing is that most armies are like 95% plastic at this point and every new book gets more and more plastic so my wallet won't be hurt too bad.

I would love to see a message from GW saying that they will now freeze price increases for a few years, but I'm not holding my breath.

Ozymandias wrote:I guess the only fortunate thing is that most armies are like 95% plastic at this point and every new book gets more and more plastic so my wallet won't be hurt too bad.

Plastic sets are also receiving price raises. Nothing is sacred.

Theres no difference, a models a model, and they put a hat on a pig.

To be fair, this strategy has made some pigs almost entirely resistant to damage.

Kanluwen wrote:

Just Dave wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:*shrug* I don't set the prices.
Maybe the Jezzails aren't the metal ones we have now but are instead retooled and new ones and they decided they're worth 6 GBP more?

Really Kan? Please, give me some of those straws you're grasping onto...

Considering we have a post that Kroothawk posted here that several things are "brand new sculpts", I'd say it's as good as any attempt to be optimistic rather than hurt my head trying to think about GW's business practices.

He mentioned that "New details in figures (Capellan on Jumpack, for example, has a new decor in bolter)"

So basically they will add an imperial eagle here and there and charge us £5 for the trouble?! I'd say leave them as they were and let us have them for cheaper!

Grot 6 wrote:They won't be. All it is is a sales ploy to make this so called "Improvement" more tasty to rubes then just coming out and saying, "We're trying to reduce production costs, and keep the same quality. We're going to continue as before, and you people need to be spoonfed to our new way of thinking."

Reason behind the move is purly business. They are changing over to resin based on the cost of ther metals.

To put one over on you and justify the price increase, they call it "Citidal Finecast" in the same way in which they were pushing the "Master class" models line with the recasting of the assorted limited 2d edition and RT era models.

Theres no difference, a models a model, and they put a hat on a pig.


If they would put half of the effort into thier gaming as they are into being completly deceitful, they would have a top notch quality product with no flaws, and 100% customer support.

At this point in time, not only am I not buying any more, I want to know how this practice compares to selling a defective product.

Change over to resin, sure, got that. But thier reasoning is complete bullcrap, and in sticking to this line of P.R. they are opening themselves up for some legal action.

Can't say that any of these recent issues have an effect on me. I live in the EU and even with the price increase, online retailers will still be a lot cheaper than LGS. I'll probably end up buying a Hive Tyrant in plastic when it comes out despite already owning a metal one just because I prefer lighter, more flexible/durable and hopefully more easily convertable models. I like the idea, but like you mentioned, it's done for all the wrong reasons.

Their PR-model does indeed seem flawed. They only make things harder for the company. I don't have any data on how old the average customer is, but a lot of people do seem to start playing when they're around 12-13 y.o. These prices seem a little steep for kids that age. Then, limiting the sales further, GW wants to discourage the kids who actually can afford their products from buying the Finecasts? I don't understand the deal with not telling us about upcoming releases until a week before either. Is it to increase WD sales? Is it because they think impulse buying will increase when people don't have time to sit home and contemplate?

So how's this effecting Forgeworld stuff?

Llamahead wrote:So how's this effecting Forgeworld stuff?

I don't think it does, really. They are a subsidiary of GW if I'm not mistaken. Two separate entities, working on the same IP. Maybe they'll feel a price hike is justifiable when GW's standard line comes closer to what FW is asking for, but I don't think they will.

Kirasu wrote:Normally I try not to agree with Kan *too much* but he is correct in thinking they *could* be adding value to the models!

Will the added value be worth the added price? Probably not but it may lessen the impact.. right?

Yes, that is the point isn't it.

I already have six metal Zoanthropes, so I have no need for resin ones. I would appreciate a model less top heavy, however I can deal with that by drilling out the head and mounting the model on a 50mm base. It certainly isn't worth paying an extra £4 for a resin copy.

going by the forgeworld catalogue I didnt see any massive hikes.

the most things went up were 2-3 quid

redeyed wrote:going by the forgeworld catalogue I didnt see any massive hikes.

the most things went up were 2-3 quid

those price raises were done quietly several months ago.

Check this out:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=16400050a

How Condescending is that?

Personally, I do not care for resin. I find it harder to modify and harder to paint. In the end it is also more fragile, so in my book it is a bad material for anything other than prototypes or very small runs.

In terms of the price increase, there is no reason other than increasing GW margins. First, the global inflation rate is roughly 2% to 3%, so there should be very little economic pressure on their costs. Yes, they will have some capital costs associated with the conversion of the molds etc., but these will quickly be offset by a reduction in material and transportation costs.
For the plastic model increases, their could be some pressure from the recent increase in oil costs. This definitely could push up the cost of plastics, but the oil price is still well below the high seen in 2008, so again the only real reason for the increase can be increasing their margins.

In the end, they are increasing their prices because they can. They are the only real source for the models and they can charge whatever they choose. It is not until customers really stop buying that they will regret their pricing strategy.

Thats the thing, sales have been dropping for years and they keep increasing costs, it almost looks like they are deliberately trying to tank the company.... the exec buggers probably have stock in privateer and mantic...

Hey guys,

My DE Clawed Fiends are shipping to me today. So, I'd bet the farm that they're NOT resin.

Which is just fine by me

(They're not on the resin list, but people were wondering about some of the items that were out of stock. I am pretty sure they're just that- out of stock. I can confirm when I have them, likely on Friday).

My heart is sunk. I was hoping I still had time to attain some metal models. It will be impractical to spend this coming paycheck just to hoard the remaining blisters out there.

I purchased a box of Mandrakes today. Been wanting these for awhile because they LOOK SO AWESOME (jes is The Man). I don't intend to play Dark Eldar though, just wanted one to use for a "counts-as" Warmachine model, and I figure I'll save one for future use as a D&D character. Wanted to get in ahead of the price increase and resin change. Now I have no plans of buying any GW stuff.

I love my Necrons, and might get some of those when they come out, but apparently I won't be allowed any excitement or chance to save up my budget for them because of the whole one week prior announcement thing they're doing now too.

I don't know, GW is almost completely dead at the FLGS right now, which saddens me. Hopefully the guy in charge of these decisions (kirby?) goes away or retires soon and someone else can step in and turn things around. At this point nothing short of a change of management will change the direction the company is heading.

This is why I did my mad panic metal order a couple of weeks ago. I've got my Straken, my Harker, my Sister Hospitaler, my Sword Brethren and my Iron Warriors Warsmith, plus a few other things.

No 'Finecast' nonsense for me.

I put up a thread in the DCM forum asking who was going into panic-metal mode a few weeks ago. I was the only one! Good to hear I'm not alone

This week: ordering the last one I want (Scyla Afinngrimm for a conversion)... even though it's not on the resin list, I don't know if it's going the way of the dodo or what...

If they're serious about running down metal, I guess this is goodbye to Blood Bowl, Epic, Necromunda and so on. I don't see them reworking the moulds for a low-demand range they don't want to make in the first place. Goodbye, Specialist Games. You'll be missed.

1.) There will be metal in mail order only for a while, but stock runs down of course.
2.) This Finecast uses the exact same moulds as metal, so that is not an issue.
3.) The Finecast will not be hazardous (as someone told me, can't verify that of course) and is free from the usual resin residue, so washing is optional, not compulsory.
4.) Finecast will need the usual flash removal and greenstuffing of gaps, but some models may be easier to assemble due to flexibility and reduced weight of the material.
5.) Finecast is not meant to be on display in every store, so getting an HQ or elite unit or Haemunculi army is a special service for some stores.

There is a contraversial lack of CSM models on that list. Only Abaddon and Huron? Surely they wouldn't get rid of Ahriman, Kharn and Fabius...(I admit I am being somewhat synical in my assumptions GW would remove them as opposed to simply releasing them second wave or giving them new models in the CSM release next year, but then glass half full is the best way to approach GW I find). The general price icrease is a bit horrid too tbh when I started collecting Abaddon was 9 quid.

At least we know why they're dropping the metal havoc models now (I assume they'll be out with these 'fine caste' tings). Hopefully Oblits and Raptors will follow suit....

Edit: Personally never thought much for Typhus and Lucius (they were ying and yang really... Typhus had good fluff, crap model.. Lucius had average model and a dreary underdeveloped fluff) so i'll sarcastically add 'oh no... not them too' to the outcry above.

91-41 VAMPIRE COUNTS BLOOD KNIGHTS £61.50

These guys are now tied with the Stompa & Baneblade as the most expensive kit

Damn the prices have gone sky high since i was collecting!

I don't know how people can say metal is easier to convert than resin. resin, is very east to cut through; metal, while it can be cut through takes a lot more effort and has a better chance of breaking thin saw blades when it snags.

Also it's heavier and pinning can be annoying on some of the much larger portions.

Cutting up lot of FW models to convert, plastic and resin are by far MUCH better for conversions...

I welcome this change (about time!) but damn the price increase for what should be cheaper.

Sanjay

Not particularly liking the price increase, but any excuse I guess I've come to expect it. Hell, I started in '98 and a Rhino was £10. As much as I don't like price increases, I generally use other sources for models rather than GW direct so the excess isn't as bad.

As for switching to resin, I'm happy about it. Having bought a few FW kits in the past (big and small, last thing I built from there was a Scythed Hierodule), resin is so much better to work with in my opinion. Pinning for a start is a complete breeze, and the light weight makes a lot of kits easy to assemble. The only real downside is the fragility compared to metal models (metal ones will break, but resin can just shatter sometimes).

After putting together a GW SoB Exorcist for my brother, I'd be happy if I never saw a metal model again

maxinux wrote:In terms of the price increase, there is no reason other than increasing GW margins. First, the global inflation rate is roughly 2% to 3%, so there should be very little economic pressure on their costs. Yes, they will have some capital costs associated with the conversion of the molds etc., but these will quickly be offset by a reduction in material and transportation costs...

Its a matter of alternative cost; the price of the status quo was higher than making a change. So they made the change. The by product was an improved quality. This is most certainly because of the price of tin, the main metal in the white metal GW uses for casting went up 60% since this day last year. From ~$8/lb to ~$13/lb.

It'd be great if GW could afford to eat that, but I think thats unreasonable. When you look at their investors information page, you can see their overall after tax profit margin, 9.5%. Just to get that meager 9.5% return, GW has to mark up the price of its products 400%... you can get this figure by comparing their cost of sales to their revenue. To put it another way, for GW to make 10 cents on the dollar, a miniature that cost GW $5 to make has to sell for $20. The 60% shift in tin price is the equivalent of that same $5 miniature suddenly costing GW $6.50 and to retain the same overall margin they have to sell it for $26... roughly a 23% bump in retail price.

People have done a break down by percentage of the cost increase for these different models; relatively few exceed 20%, but without the change of material the prices would have all jumped by at least 23%.

So while I agree price increase are bad, I don't think the numbers are lying and I think GW was justified in raising prices and changing materials in this fashion. This was inevitable as long as GW held overall margins steady. We would either see a 23% price increase or a 20% increase with improved casting properties; between the two we got the better deal.