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Aiming the gun at yourself?

I don't follow you.

If they step out at me I'm going to try and break any sort.of contact before going for my pistol, gotta.open that gap.up

Monster Rain wrote:Aiming the gun at yourself?

I don't follow you.

Turning the gun in order to hit the guy, all depends on where you're trying to hit the BG.

And if he is close enough, you will probably get cut or stabbed in the process. But the BG will suffer a lot more and sustain a LOT more damage.

As stated...that's the point. You may still get sliced, but you will, in all probability, get LESS sliced when the guy with the knife has a few more "speed holes"

And if the BG gets close enough there may be a point when you actually end up aiming it at yourself.

In a grappling situation, perhaps. Yet another reason for a little hand to hand training in addition to firearms. Also why I mentioned selecting a revolver, seeing as the fixed barrel eliminates the liability most autos have in that if you were to, for example, jam the weapon into the opponents gut and squeeze...many of them will go click instead of bang. 1911s, Glocks, etc. can all be pushed out of battery far enough that the hammer or striker will not properly drop/drop at all. Just food for thought, it's not as if autos don't have a long and confirmed history of putting people in the ground.

halonachos wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Aiming the gun at yourself?

I don't follow you.

Turning the gun in order to hit the guy, all depends on where you're trying to hit the BG.

Center of mass, anywhere else is usually a bad idea in a self defense situation.

Three rounds to the chest/abdomen.

Melissia, everyone knows you have to aim for the head or it isn't worth it.

But seriously folks, center mass is a much larger target.

Good for you!!!!2a all day!

halonachos wrote:
Dogma, not arguing against your point. A gun and knife, as you have shown as well, are perfectly safe unless someone or something acts upon it.

No, nothing is perfectly safe. The entire world is dangerous, even the ground. Safe is a matter of acceptable danger, not its absence.

You seem to be confusing danger with actual injury. Nothing can injure anything without action, but danger exists prior to action because it is a matter of potential.

Who knew that so many nerds were rootin' tootin' gunslingers...?

dogma wrote:

halonachos wrote:
Dogma, not arguing against your point. A gun and knife, as you have shown as well, are perfectly safe unless someone or something acts upon it.

No, nothing is perfectly safe. The entire world is dangerous, even the ground. Safe is a matter of acceptable danger, not its absence.

You seem to be confusing danger with actual injury. Nothing can injure anything without action, but danger exists prior to action because it is a matter of potential.

If a knife sits on a counter unmolested by anything then no one can be harmed by it, once an outside force acts upon it then it becomes dangerous but not before that happens. There is the potential that a child may touch it and hurt themselves but then the child has acted upon the knife. There is a chance that an earthquake could rattle the knife off of the counter and impale someone who has also fallen but then the earthquake has acted upon the knife. The list goes on and on, the knife itself is a static object and is safe unless acted upon because there is no chance that a knife would be able to hurt someone unless it came into contact with them. Everything is a matter of potential, but I would reckon that the odds of the potential event occurring are relatively small. I also fail to see how a pair of underwear could be dangerous unless you compound it with a great deal of external factors and could then blame the external factors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:Who knew that so many nerds were rootin' tootin' gunslingers...?

Just the American ones Alby.

halonachos wrote:Melissia, everyone knows you have to aim for the head or it isn't worth it.

But seriously folks, center mass is a much larger target.

Especially on me. Chocolate, rum, and queso, you are my nemesis!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:Who knew that so many nerds were rootin' tootin' gunslingers...?

I'm a COW...BOY BABY...

I would expect chocolate, rum, and queso to be anyone's nemesis. Those guys have absolutely no hitbox.

If a knife sits on a counter unmolested by anything then no one can be harmed by it,

Someone can still cut themselves on he knife. Ergo, it's dangerous.

Just because something is not actively harming another thing doesn't mean it's safe.

Just the American ones Alby.

Pfff. It's just that the non-US ones are real, REAL quiet about the STEN they entombed in their wall for a rainy day.

Before I go on about my sidearm of choice I just want to say that if 99% of people went through the absolute ice in the blood horror of what constitutes an after effect of what taking another life does to you like I have (I Was in the Parachute Regiment for around 5 years) then ownership of guns would, in a word, PLUMMET and no mistake! Be that as it may, since we do live in a world that makes them, sadly, necassary and if I had to own one then I would go for the Sig P226 9mm parabellum ANY DAY OF THE WEEK AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS! With no less than 15 rounds in it you should have enough to give a burglar something to think about (however brief that may be). It is rather sad I think that they are becoming more and more ubiquitous around the world though, but thats another story. Hmm...But still, it is a nice piece that I have had the honour of carrying on my person when I was a squadie.

absolute ice in the blood horror of what constitutes an after effect of what taking another life does to you like I have

My father taught me a very valuable lesson on this note, for he did have first hand experience with the above repeatedly, and it certainly messed him up good:

"But at least I ain't dead!"

Then he taught me how to shoot an M16.

halonachos wrote:
If a knife sits on a counter unmolested by anything then no one can be harmed by it, once an outside force acts upon it then it becomes dangerous but not before that happens. There is the potential that a child may touch it and hurt themselves but then the child has acted upon the knife.

The knife also acted upon the child by resisting his touch (that's how cuts happen). At this level of abstraction action isn't akin to the colloquial sense, in which it is restricted to animate objects.

halonachos wrote:
I also fail to see how a pair of underwear could be dangerous unless you compound it with a great deal of external factors and could then blame the external factors.

You're still not understanding what "dangerous" means. Danger is about potential, which means that if any circumstance could ever exist which might lead to object X causing harm, then object X is dangerous.

Sitting in front of your computer is dangerous. The world is practically bathed in low levels of radiation. One of your cells could mutate and become cancerous no mater how "perfectly safe" you try to live.

To the original question, while they are not glamorous or sexy the Glock series of pistols are some of the best handguns in the world. Relatively cheap, reliable and easy to find parts and accessories for. The trigger pull can be stiff but some see this as a safety feature, making it harder to accidentally discharge.

I've got several, including a G20C shooter for range time and a G29 carry weapon. My wife's is a G19.

The Green Git wrote:To the original question, while they are not glamorous or sexy the Glock series of pistols are some of the best handguns in the world. Relatively cheap, reliable and easy to find parts and accessories for. The trigger pull can be stiff but some see this as a safety feature, making it harder to accidentally discharge.

I've got several, including a G20C shooter for range time and a G29 carry weapon. My wife's is a G19.

As a carry piece it's definitely up there with the best.

Melissia did you ever end up getting yourself that 1911?

Colt model 01991=A good buy. You've already stated the many good reasons to buy it.

My only advice is don't buy a Beretta M9. It's a nice accurate pistol, but I had more than 1 of those piece of gak M9 pistols stovepipe on me at the range, and I can't even count the number of times I have seen a M9 stovepipe on a shipmate at the range.

I know a 1911 can theoretically stovepipe, but I've never had it happen to me, I have never seen it happen, and it's not a frequent complaint of 1911 owners.

I never had that happen with an M9, and di put my share of rounds down range with one in the early 90s. Did see a guy not hold it correctly at a range I was running. The slide came back and almost took off his thumb. Several stiches...

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Bond-Derringer/DSC07446.JPG

This is one of the guns I own. It's the one I carry in a pocket; and I would have no problems shooting through my clothes do defend myself.
It can be loaded with .410 shotgun shells or .45 ammo.
With the .410, I get a 3" pattern at 10' and 1" pattern at 5'.
I keep it loaded with Federal Arms personal defence rounds. (it has 3 balls with discs *look like watch batteries* stacked on top.) These rounds are DEVESTATING at close range.

I like this chambering so much, I bought a Tarus Judge for fun!

My only advice is don't buy a Beretta M9. It's a nice accurate pistol, but I had more than 1 of those piece of gak M9 pistols stovepipe on me at the range, and I can't even count the number of times I have seen a M9 stovepipe on a shipmate at the range.

I know a 1911 can theoretically stovepipe, but I've never had it happen to me, I have never seen it happen, and it's not a frequent complaint of 1911 owners.

Allow me to present a counter-anecdote: Old 92F, not even a 92FS, an F. 2300 rounds. One malfunction. One. Ejected brass came up into my view of the front sight and everything suddenly ground to a halt with a beautiful, perfectly vertical stovepipe.

1911s however, from Colt gold cups to Springfield Mil-Specs, all bite the <CENSORED> out of my hand without a beavertail safety, and they seem to be the king of feedway stoppages. -My- particular 1911 seems content to only FTF or FTEj once per hundred rounds, and I have around 500 through the thing now. I suppose it keeps me on my toes with malfunction drills...There may be a 1911 that I would consider useful for "Srs Bzsns" ...but I sure as heck haven't put my hand on it yet.

Not yet. One dosen't rush into a several hundred dollar purchase


SOFDC: Maybe yours is lower quality? I've read many reviews of the Colt Government Model 01991A1 (the one I mentioned in the OP) where they fired 500+ or even 1000+ rounds with no problems.

The purpose of a gun is to kill whatever is threatening your life.

The only 2 caliber guns in general use that can do a DRT (Dead Right There) with one shot are in .45 and .40

The one that has a long history of over a century of doing that reliably is a 45.

The U.S. Army got rid of theirs a few years ago (The organization with the most experience and the mission of doing more DRT's than anyone) for a 9mm.

They are now dumping the 9mm toys are are evaluating whether to go back to the 45 or something in .40.

I will tell you SOCOM is a .45 only organization.

I have one weapon at my house.

It is a .45 just like the one I used in the big green machine.

Over 20 years of carrying one in addition to my service rifle and I know for a fact I hit what I point at and what I hit does not get back up, and that was with full metal jacket ball ammo. They have the good stuff now.

There are several makers of good .45's for $400. Good magazines are the thing to make sure of.

When you get one, practice, practice, practice with the same ammo you plan on having in it if you need to defend yourself.

Get a concealed carry license as well. Its hard to hide a 45 on you but you would be surprised how often folks ignore your computer bag, jacket pocket or purse if you are a woman like my wife.

If you have no kids keep it on your nightstand at night, seconds do count.... If you do have kids training them beats gun locks every time. Both my sons learned guns are not toys early and grew into their own.

Her's hoping you get one you are comfortable with enough to keep it with you and not locked up when you most need it and it's a good DRT gun.

By the way poor ammo and poor magazines cause most jams and stovepipes. Fire the recommended grain bullet with a good magazine and you will have very few failures to functions or stoves.

NeedleOfInquiry wrote:The only 2 caliber guns in general use that can do a DRT (Dead Right There) with one shot are in .45 and .40

At the moment it's likely either a Colt Government Model 01991A1 or a SIG Sauer P250 (either full size or compact, whichever feels better in my hand). The former is obviously .45 ACP, the latter I'm thinking I might get in .40 S&W, but it also comes in .45 ACP or .357 SIG. Dunno, I've done far more research on the guns themselves, but the ammunition is a bit less clear to me.

the thing with a compact is they kick. Remember the practice practice practice. Folks who get a big caliber gun in a small size realize it hurts to practice practice practice at the range and they either quit practicing or use a lower grain bullet leading to more failure to function issues.

You need to go to a gun range that rents guns and fire at least 50 to 100 rounds and see if it is comfortable for you.

May be heresy to say it but sigs are good guns too.

So if I were hypothetically to get the compact P250 (it depends on which feels most comfortable in my hand) I should probably get it in .357 SIG?

I've read many reviews of the Colt Government Model 01991A1 (the one I mentioned in the OP) where they fired 500+ or even 1000+ rounds with no problems.

Oh, it's most certainly lower end. Springfield Armory (Not the old one. The people who "Make" the 300 dollar Croatian pistol, slap "Xtreme" on it and charge 500+...) but i've managed to screw up Colts and Kimbers as well. The reasons? Well, ones extractor went out-of-tune, another I can only assume that the magazines were worn out, one did not like the profile of a JHP projectile and didn't like feeding it.

Whatever you get, take the pistol. Take several hundred rounds of -WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO CARRY IN THE THING- and go shoot. If you research out that you want to carry the thing loaded with SuperDeathHollowpoints Mk 5, go buy a couple hundred rounds of it, and make sure it feeds when YOUR hands are supporting it, YOUR ammo is going into the tube, YOUR magazines are feeding it. Going and buying a couple 100 round FMJ Val-U-Paks from wal-mart and then loading the sucker up with something else and carrying it around may or may not tell you a darn thing about your particular weapons reliability.

Now, as to caliber and bullet...depends. In Texas I went with the 9mm due to -MUCH- greater capacity and ammunition was cheaper on all levels. Here in Commiefornia, where I am limited to 10 rounds per mag, big or small...while .40 and .45 may only make an academic difference (Will get to this in a moment.) on the target, there is no reason I shouldn't try to eke out what small advantages are legally possible in this situation and went with .40...additionally, this gives me ammo and magazine compatibility with my roommates.

Now, ballistically...go look at the really nice JHP terminal ballistics tests. Even a 9mm will expand to ridiculous diameters, and while .45 fans like to remark that "A .45 will never shrink!"...an extra 2.43mm in the bullet diameter will -not- make up for a poorly placed shot. The vaunted momentum increase with .40 and .45 are also...pretty laughable actually. The physics do not lie, and my approx. 15 pound arm moving at a rather sedate 3 feet per second (Think: Me backhanding someone. Rather gently.) will impart a hell of a lot more -MOMENTUM- than a 230gr .45 moving at 850 FPS. The difference is, a .45 is akin to me backhanding someone with a 9 inch metal spike attached to the back of my fist.

All of the common calibers are common for a reason: They work. However none of them are going to give you some magical, rules of the universe breaking advantage. None of them should be depended on to throw the Goblin backwards into the wall, stop a charge by a drugged up 200 pound angry male humanoid, or knock an armored man over with a single round. Now, this is not taking into account psychology, this is not taking into account peoples tendancy to hop away from the direction of an applied force, or to think "Oh god, I have been shot!" and faint.

A handgun is an icepick thrower. That's all it is. A well ran handgun is a sewing machine that kills people, not a hollywood handcannon. Make sure it works every time, you can make your hits, and you can do it repeatedly under time pressure.