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Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

Well we're currently in the 2nd milenium assuming they use our calendar.
So 38,000 years.

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







purplefood wrote:Well we're currently in the 2nd milenium assuming they use our calendar.
So 38,000 years.


So think how much human attitude would change through then?

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

blood reaper wrote:Indeed, human nature has changed allot in the last hundred years.


Human nature hasn't changed a bit. Human culture has changed. That's one of the things that 40k writers don't grasp, other than maybe Sandy Mitchell and Dan Abnett.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/08/03 19:45:27



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:Indeed, human nature has changed allot in the last hundred years.


Human nature hasn't changed a bit. Human culture has changed. That's one of the things that 40k writers don't grasp, other than maybe Sandy Mitchell and Dan Abnett.


I'd say morally, but again, it's opinion.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in gb
Renegade Inquisitor de Marche






Elephant Graveyard

BaronIveagh wrote:
blood reaper wrote:Indeed, human nature has changed allot in the last hundred years.


Human nature hasn't changed a bit. Human culture has changed. That's one of the things that 40k writers don't grasp.

It kinda has...
Currently we are open to new things.
In 40k anything new and different is usually also bad.
That is to some extent culture but it has become ingrained in human nature in 40k...

Dakka Bingo! By Ouze
"You are the best at flying things"-Kanluwen
"Further proof that Purple is a fething brilliant super villain " -KingCracker
"Purp.. Im pretty sure I have a gun than can reach you...."-Nicorex
"That's not really an apocalypse. That's just Europe."-Grakmar
"almost as good as winning free cake at the tea drinking contest for an Englishman." -Reds8n
Seal up your lips and give no words but mum.
Equip, Reload. Do violence.
Watch for Gerry. 
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter




Seattle

No, some aspects of our society are open to new things. Others are not. Human nature, itself, has changed at all in thousands of years.

In 40K, what is "new and different" is probably an aspect of a soul-eating monstrosity from another dimension, so people (rightly) don't go for the "new and different". If today's model didn't get you pulled screaming into Hell, why would you risk the chance with tomorrow's model?

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
Made in gb
Lethal Lhamean






Kanto

Yeah, that's why the change is there. It's not an argument against the change having happened.

   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Am I wrong or don't humans present a threat to the warp. It is implied several times that the age of strife was caused by a cataclysm by people over using warp powers. That cataclysm took place in the warp meaning that a lot of its instabilities could have been caused by people. The warp entities might have been benevolent at one point but at this point the IoM is just a threat to them and they are defending themselves so they wouldn't be benevolent to people i could be entirely wrong but it seems plausible to me.
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







marrlfox wrote:Am I wrong or don't humans present a threat to the warp. It is implied several times that the age of strife was caused by a cataclysm by people over using warp powers. That cataclysm took place in the warp meaning that a lot of its instabilities could have been caused by people. The warp entities might have been benevolent at one point but at this point the IoM is just a threat to them and they are defending themselves so they wouldn't be benevolent to people i could be entirely wrong but it seems plausible to me.


Wrong.

Without humanity, the power of the Chaos gods would be tiny, your entire post is wrong.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Right but the IoM is a threat to chaos and they can take any sentient race not just humans, also a catastrophe on the scale to cause the age of strife i doubt only affected one side. Why would they be benevolent towards humanity when a decent portion of humanity is trying to wage basically genocide against them...
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







marrlfox wrote:Right but the IoM is a threat to chaos and they can take any sentient race not just humans, also a catastrophe on the scale to cause the age of strife i doubt only affected one side. Why would they be benevolent towards humanity when a decent portion of humanity is trying to wage basically genocide against them...


Please, just re-read everything, everything you've posted is wrong.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in ph
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...

marrlfox wrote:Right but the IoM is a threat to chaos and they can take any sentient race not just humans, also a catastrophe on the scale to cause the age of strife i doubt only affected one side. Why would they be benevolent towards humanity when a decent portion of humanity is trying to wage basically genocide against them...


Are you sure you've got the right fluff? 'cuz, Humans haven't been a complete threat to everyone/everything else in the galaxy since the Great Crusade.

I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.

'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' 
   
Made in hr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Croatia

Tadashi wrote:
marrlfox wrote:Right but the IoM is a threat to chaos and they can take any sentient race not just humans, also a catastrophe on the scale to cause the age of strife i doubt only affected one side. Why would they be benevolent towards humanity when a decent portion of humanity is trying to wage basically genocide against them...


Are you sure you've got the right fluff? 'cuz, Humans haven't been a complete threat to everyone/everything else in the galaxy since the Great Crusade.


Right - and waging war with chaos worshiping human's only charges batteries of certain Chaos God

ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."

Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan


 
   
Made in ph
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...

DarthMarko wrote:
Tadashi wrote:
marrlfox wrote:Right but the IoM is a threat to chaos and they can take any sentient race not just humans, also a catastrophe on the scale to cause the age of strife i doubt only affected one side. Why would they be benevolent towards humanity when a decent portion of humanity is trying to wage basically genocide against them...


Are you sure you've got the right fluff? 'cuz, Humans haven't been a complete threat to everyone/everything else in the galaxy since the Great Crusade.


Right - and waging war with chaos worshiping human's only charges batteries of certain Chaos God


Indeed. A better way to fight Chaos is to 'disbelieve' it into non-existence.

I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.

'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Oh alright I'm still reading my way through the black library books and codex so that was just a guess based on what i've read so far but that's why i asked.
   
Made in hr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Croatia

Like in life - To be ignored - hurts the most (especially Chaos Gods for obvious reasons:-) Do you think that Emp had that in mind when he preeched IT or just pointing stupidity in human religion?

ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."

Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan


 
   
Made in gb
Barpharanges







marrlfox wrote:Oh alright I'm still reading my way through the black library books and codex so that was just a guess based on what i've read so far but that's why i asked.


Black library twists fluff like no other, it's not a good source.

While Lexicanum and 40K wiki are in no way complete sources, provide free information, and is vastly superior to the BL.

The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.  
   
Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Tadashi wrote:Indeed. A better way to fight Chaos is to 'disbelieve' it into non-existence.
Unfortunately, that's not quite how Chaos works at all.

blood reaper wrote:Black library twists fluff like no other, it's not a good source.
While Lexicanum and 40K wiki are in no way complete sources, provide free information, and is vastly superior to the BL.
The problems with Lexicanum and 40wiki are that they incorporate the very same fluff from Black Library. At times, this may end up in contradictory articles, as wiki editors try to "merge" different sources into a single article and have to sort out contradictions, obviously ending in a lot of individual interpretation fueled by personal preferences.

The wikis are best used for a general overview and as a repository for looking up the actual sources, then preferrably make up your own mind.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/08/07 14:31:26


 
   
Made in ph
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...

DarthMarko wrote:Like in life - To be ignored - hurts the most (especially Chaos Gods for obvious reasons:-) Do you think that Emp had that in mind when he preeched IT or just pointing stupidity in human religion?


Both. The former would reduce the Powers to impotence - there are instances IRL where people who live in haunted houses/places don't get affected by paranormal events because they refuse to accept its existence even when everything and everyone around them is being tormented, the old man was trying to replicate this effect across the whole Human race - and simultaneously free the Humans from the shackles of superstition and organized religion. Even the Wolves of Fenris would agree with the Sons of Prospero on this.

I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.

'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' 
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor

It is possible, but not mentioned in canon because it's not relevant to the grimdark theme. You might want to write a few stories about it to help expand it in that case.

And the Wikia Warhammer 40,000 Wiki is a fanfiction wiki. Their lists of sources are a joke, and their articles lack any citations and take a way too liberal interpretation of canon. They take anything that is speculated or implied and pass it off as canon, when they don't blatantly insert fanfiction into the articles.

Wikia is also the Third Reich of the internet, and Montonius is a complete idiot for a variety of reasons, including defending the use of fanfiction in articles.

As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.

Search engine for Warhammer 40,000 websites
Note: Ads are placed by Google since it uses their service. Sturmkrieg does not make any money from the use of this service.

The Vault - Fallout Wiki Wikia still maintains their plagiarized copy 
   
Made in hr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Croatia

Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:It is possible, but not mentioned in canon because it's not relevant to the grimdark theme. You might want to write a few stories about it to help expand it in that case.

And the Wikia Warhammer 40,000 Wiki is a fanfiction wiki. Their lists of sources are a joke, and their articles lack any citations and take a way too liberal interpretation of canon. They take anything that is speculated or implied and pass it off as canon, when they don't blatantly insert fanfiction into the articles.

Wikia is also the Third Reich of the internet, and Montonius is a complete idiot for a variety of reasons, including defending the use of fanfiction in articles.

Yeah, they are constantly changing fluff (even for first founding legions) and not in a good way...like they are forming their own picture and losing objectivity...
But the sadest part is that lot of forum fanboys are sticking to it like a blind man to a stick...

ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."

Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





No. GW is all about the nerds.

The Chaos Gods themselves are personifications of the anxiety that your average nerd feels towards his own emotions. They can't be good.
Hell, nurgle even has acne.

Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:

jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
 
   
Made in hr
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator




Croatia

Testify wrote:No. GW is all about the nerds.

The Chaos Gods themselves are personifications of the anxiety that your average nerd feels towards his own emotions. They can't be good.
Hell, nurgle even has acne.


I' give you one up - because that sums it up nice

ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."

Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan


 
   
Made in cn
Regular Dakkanaut




Isn't Chaos (not the gods, the realm) like a flowing river of raw energy (emotions) which, when pooled together, form and new entity? So what if some posivitve mojo pooled? Would it create a "good" entity? I'd like to think that (and of course its just my personal opinion) that it does but it soon gets "eaten" or overpowered by some form of the 4 big gods.

However there are some that survive through guile and cunning and every so often escape to the material word to help (and therefore increase their own powers) mortals.

Someone has to be annoying the big gods apart from the Emporer.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





What about the eldar gods before Slannessh, they were in the warp as evidenced by the creation of Avatars (slaanesh fought Khaine and defeated him but couldnt kill him so sent him from the warp in pieces)

Reading the eldar codex and from memory there were quite a few other eldar gods where did these come from? could these not have been created by the eldar in the countless years before the fall?

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, not gone through all 11 pages

40kGlobal AOA member, regular of Overlords podcast club and 4tk gaming store. Blogger @ http://sanguinesons.blogspot.co.uk/
06/2013: 1st at War of the Roses ETC warm up.
08/213: 3rd place double teams at 4tk
09/2013: 7th place, best daemon and non eldar/tau army at Northern Warlords GT
10/2013: 3rd/4th at Battlefield Birmingham
11/2013: 5th at GT heat 3
11/2013: 5th COG 2k at 4tk
01/2014: 34th at Caledonian
03/2014: 3rd GT Final 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

MarkyMark wrote:What about the eldar gods before Slannessh, they were in the warp as evidenced by the creation of Avatars (slaanesh fought Khaine and defeated him but couldnt kill him so sent him from the warp in pieces)

Reading the eldar codex and from memory there were quite a few other eldar gods where did these come from? could these not have been created by the eldar in the countless years before the fall?

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, not gone through all 11 pages


Yeah, Isha has been brought up and dismissed as 'not a daemon'.


Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in ae
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





She isn't a daemon (nor probably any other of the Eldar Gods, for that case), just a Warp Entity who isn't a sadistic, twisted Chaos God. I see that as benign.

Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course... 
   
Made in ph
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...

Mynameisalie wrote:She isn't a daemon (nor probably any other of the Eldar Gods, for that case), just a Warp Entity who isn't a sadistic, twisted Chaos God. I see that as benign.


Only to Eldar...she wouldn't give a damn about Humans, anymore than those pointy-eared limp-wrists do.

I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.

'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' 
   
Made in ae
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





Granted.

Currently attempting to put together a homebrew non-canon Space Marine chapter. If I can be bothered to getting around to painting the models and putting the things together of course... 
   
Made in ph
Ancient Venerable Dreadnought





Thousand Sons Battleship wandering the galaxy...

Mynameisalie wrote:Granted.


The only entity benevolent to us is the old man.

I should have left him there. He had served his purpose. He owed me nothing - yet he gave himself to me willingly. Why? I know not. He is nothing more than a pathetic human. An inferior race. A mon-keigh. But still I broke off my wings so that I might carry him easier. I took him from that place, into the snowstorm where our tracks will not be found. He is heavy. And he is dying. And he is slowing me down. But I will save him. Why? I know not. He is still warm. I can feel his blood ebbing across me. For every beat of his heart, another, slight spill of heat. The heat blows away on the winter wind. His blood is still warm. But fading. And I have spilled scarlet myself. The snow laps greedily at our footsteps and our lifeblood, covering them without a trace as we fade away.

'She sat on the corner, gulping the soup down, uncaring of the heat of it. They had grown more watery as of late she noted, but she wasn't about to beggar food from the Imperials or the "Bearers of the Word." Tau, despite their faults at least didn't have a kill policy for her race.' 
   
 
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