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Martel732 wrote:
I dont' like the company vets as they'll likely be illegal in 9th.

In 9th, whenever/if that actually happens, they'll morph to Vanguard Veterans. The only thing I don't get access to in a Company Veterans squad is the Relic Blade, which is nice, but I'd rather run a Thunder Hammer for consistent damage on the Sergeant, and I prefer the intercept wound rule for nearby characters.

It may be invalidated, but I don't foresee it. I expect another Index to release in 9th (whenever it releases) for old-school builds and models such as Company Veterans with Jump Packs and Sanguinary Novitate/Company Champion/Sanguinary High Priest w/ Jump Pack options. Though, honestly, I don't think we'll be getting a new edition for a long, long time. They'll be patching/revising the game with their FAQ's, bi-yearly updates, and chapter approved to address balance that a new edition would previously address.

Just my opinion.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Razerous wrote:
What's better... scouts or SG in melee? Just curious how the cost breaks down?

Too many variables to assess reliably. Against GEQs, those Scouts will cause more wounds per point spent on them than SG. Against MEQs, the balance tips in favour of the SG. Against multi-wound models, the SG are far ahead. Then there is the value of the 2+ save, 2 wounds etc.

The question is not really which is better in melee but what they can bring to your army. CC Scouts can deploy to screen your own army from enemy infiltrators and Deep Strike units. They can quickly and cheaply get close to the enemy and start harassing stuff or clear a landing zone while your SG and DC drop in to charge.

Comparing them really is apples and oranges as they are very different units. I do believe that Scouts offer BAs a lot and are a great way to fill your Troops slots if you want a Battalion or two (and you will do if you want enough CPs to power those tasty stratagems).

Is there any way for us to shoot in the fight phase ?

p5freak wrote:
Is there any way for us to shoot in the fight phase ?

No, no that I'm aware of, you can only shoot pistols (or a weapon that operates as a pistol via an ability or special rule, such as the Vostroyan Regimental order they can issue) in the shooting phase of your turn while engaged, I.E. within 1" of an enemy unit in your own shooting phase.

Having Inferno Pistols and to a lesser extent hand flamers available for pistol options just brings more (awesome) options for Blood Angels that want to stay engaged instead of falling back out of combat.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Inferno Pistols are so much fun. Nothinf better than popping a Daemon Prince in the shooting phase while in melee.

The look on your opponents face is glorious.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Inferno Pistols are so much fun. Nothinf better than popping a Daemon Prince in the shooting phase while in melee.

The look on your opponents face is glorious.

I plan on having at east one in every melee oriented squad that can take one. My Death Company squads will likely get one in every five, as well.

Right now the conundrum I face is how to equip a soon to be started 5 man Assault Squad. Do I go with my initial plan of dual Meltaguns with an inferno pistol/power sword (or axe) Sergeant, or do I instead go with a pair of Plasma Guns and a Combi Plasma & Lightning Caw Sergeant?

I'm leaning toward the latter now, as I think it would be a fun way to drop in and put some hurt on a hard target, or keep them close to my Captain and overcharge hard and often while bouncing around the field melting faces with 3x, or 6x Plasma shots a turn depending on range.

I'll have to do a price comparison of that Assault squad build versus a 3 man Inceptor squad with 6x Plasma Exterminators. I'd love to run both in unison together, truth be told.

Hooray number crunching.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Inferno Pistols are so much fun. Nothinf better than popping a Daemon Prince in the shooting phase while in melee.

The look on your opponents face is glorious.

I know, but thats not in the fight phase.

p5freak wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Inferno Pistols are so much fun. Nothinf better than popping a Daemon Prince in the shooting phase while in melee.

The look on your opponents face is glorious.

I know, but thats not in the fight phase.

I never said it was, since we don't have a way to shoot again in the Fight Phase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red__Thirst wrote:


Right now the conundrum I face is how to equip a soon to be started 5 man Assault Squad. Do I go with my initial plan of dual Meltaguns with an inferno pistol/power sword (or axe) Sergeant, or do I instead go with a pair of Plasma Guns and a Combi Plasma & Lightning Caw Sergeant?

Can Assault Squad Sergeants even take Combi-Weapons?

 NH Gunsmith wrote:


Can Assault Squad Sergeants even take Combi-Weapons?

Not anymore. Only pistols/CCW.

Why still use limited gear assault or vanguard squads when company veterans have access to pretty much everything except heavy weapons ? The index version can use JP.

First is quick attack slot for cp, second is that they are index and codex wich kinda open the door to all sort of stuff.

Hi all. Played my first game with the new codex. Got a victory against the death guard at 1.5k
I had:

He had:


I had 8 command points which was just enough for a 1.5k game to do what i wanted to do. 1 was spent on the banner for 7 in game and i used them all over the course of the game. I used lucifer pattern engines and descent of angels turn one and a cp re-roll for the DOA . Never needed forlorn fury or upon wings of fire as everyone ended up close enough after DS. I Forgot red rampage SO many times. Lucifer engine's deserve a note.
Our Stratagem's are really good. Between Forlorn fury, wings of fire, lucifer engine's and stoprm raven's we can have almost our entire army in our opponent's DZ or engaging them turn1 especially if everything else is in DS/reserve. That's potentially 6 unit's starting on the table that can move/re-position really quickly. Couple this with scout's, jump pack and terminator assault we should pretty much be assaulting with everything T1 and almost all of the rest T2 except objective sitter's etc. I believe this is what we have to do to get the most from our codex.

A few random thought's and musing's.


My only question is. Can you use upon wing's of fire to remove a unit if they are within 1" of an enemy model, ie from CQC? and if so do they count as falling back? I was told yes you can remove them but they count as falling back. Is that the case?

Sorry for the randomness of the post but i hope it help's in some way.

Cheer's, K.

kryczek wrote:

My only question is. Can you use upon wing's of fire to remove a unit if they are within 1" of an enemy model, ie from CQC? and if so do they count as falling back? I was told yes you can remove them but they count as falling back. Is that the case?

Yes you can use Wings of Fire to pull your units out of melee. No it does not count as a Withdraw move since it is not normal movement.

The squad is free to act normally and even charge a different target if they wish.

Are you sure? It doesn't say in the strat it can?

In the fall back rule it say's :if you begin your movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit you can either remain stationery or fall back.
It doesn't seem to allow any exemptions and wing's of fire provide none to it. I wasn't even sure you could use it at all within 1".
It's stay still or fall back (using normal movement rules of course) but nothing seem's to allow you to do anything else.

Does it say somewhere that it provide's an exemption or is "not normal movement"? Anything to confirm it really because until it does i'm falling back to anywhere on the table according to my group. Although for only 1 cp i could see it being just fall back anywhere. Any help appreciated.

kryczek wrote:
Are you sure? It doesn't say in the strat it can?

In the fall back rule it say's :if you begin your movement phase within 1" of an enemy unit you can either remain stationery or fall back.
It doesn't seem to allow any exemptions and wing's of fire provide none to it. I wasn't even sure you could use it at all within 1".
It's stay still or fall back (using normal movement rules of course) but nothing seem's to allow you to do anything else.

Does it say somewhere that it provide's an exemption or is "not normal movement"? Anything to confirm it really because until it does i'm falling back to anywhere on the table according to my group. Although for only 1 cp i could see it being just fall back anywhere. Any help appreciated.

GW FAQ:
"Q: If a unit starts its Movement phase within 1" of an enemy
unit but elects to remain stationary, but subsequently uses a
rule that removes them from the battlefield and then sets them
up again, such as the Teleport Homer ability or the Gate of
Infinity psychic power, is it considered to have Fallen Back
this turn?
A: No."

The only action that counts as falling back is falling back. Anything else that happens to remove you from combat is penalty-free.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:


Right now the conundrum I face is how to equip a soon to be started 5 man Assault Squad. Do I go with my initial plan of dual Meltaguns with an inferno pistol/power sword (or axe) Sergeant, or do I instead go with a pair of Plasma Guns and a Combi Plasma & Lightning Caw Sergeant?

Can Assault Squad Sergeants even take Combi-Weapons?

You're correct, I hadn't looked at the assault squad entry in the new codex to see for sure. I might put a plasma pistol on the Sgt. and run a lightning claw or just a Power Sword on him instead. I lose out on one shot at 24" and one shot at 12" and closer. Might consider running a pair of plasma pistols instead.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Also of note, Grey Knights can basically do the same thing as Blood Angels as far as getting out of CC penalty free. GK can use their Infinity Gate psychic power to redeploy on the board while BA use a stratagem to do the same thing. Both are legit and used as intended.

Picked up a BA Intercessor box. I think I’m leaning towards auto bolt rifles this time around, it should give them some extra mobility and be decent for midfield action. The new codex has me on a spending spree lol.

@niv_mizzet what faq is that just to confirm? Rulebook?

kryczek wrote:
@niv_mizzet what faq is that just to confirm? Rulebook?

Aye main rulebook one.

Hoodwink wrote:
Also of note, Grey Knights can basically do the same thing as Blood Angels as far as getting out of CC penalty free. GK can use their Infinity Gate psychic power to redeploy on the board while BA use a stratagem to do the same thing. Both are legit and used as intended.

True. But GK are hardly comparable with BA.
See https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/747003.page#9755911

Command points are a scarce resource. Here is my guide to get/save command points.

Include a detachment of ultramarines. Their warlord trait is every time you use a Command Point, roll a D6. On a 5+, this Command Point is refunded. Note that you roll for each command point spent.

Include a detachment of dark angels. Their warlord trait is once per battle, your Warlord gets a free re-roll and you get a CP back each time you use a strat on a 5+. Not as good as ultramarines, if you use a 2 or 3 CP strat you only get to roll one dice.

Include a detachment of astra militarum. Their warlord trait grand strategist is whilst your Warlord is alive, you can re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll or saving throw per battle. In addition, if your army is Battle-forged and this Warlord is on the battlefield, roll a dice for each Command Point spent when using Stratagems. On a 5+ that Command Point is immediately refunded. This is the best because you get to roll for every command point. Also add kurovs aquila, each time your opponent uses a Stratagem, roll a D6. On a 5+ you gain 1 Command Point. Its free if your warlord is from astra militarum.

Use 1 CP to buy the veritas vitae for one your BA characters. If your army is Battle-forged and the bearer is on the battlefield, roll a D6 each time you use a Stratagem; on a 5+, you gain a Command Point. You can use grand strategist maybe you get the CP back.

If you use the veritas vitae and grand strategist/kurovs aquila combo you get to roll two dice for every 1 CP stratagem you use. If you roll 5+ on both dice you get 2 CP. Kurovs aquila lets you roll everytime your opponent uses a stratagem, on a 5+ you get a command point.

Another way to get a command point is the damocles command rhino. Roll 2D6 at the end of each of your turns if your Warlord is embarked within a Damocles Command Rhino. If the total rolled is less than your Warlord's Leadership characteristic, you gain one Command point. This doesnt allow you to use the dark angels or ultramarines warlord trait, because your warlord is not considered to be on the battlefield while embarked. But the chance of rolling a 8 or less with two dice is higher than rolling a 5+ on one dice. If your warlord is ultramarines he gets leadership +1, and if you give him the +1 leadership warlord trait from the BRB you get 1 CP on a roll of 10 or less. This is pretty expensive (~200 pts.) and it only lets you roll once per turn. Probably not worth it.

Another way to save CPs is to use the land raider prometheus. While your army's Warlord is embarked within this model one Stratagem played in a turn by the controlling player costs one fewer Command point than normal (to a minimum of 1). Its nice to save 1 CP, but its only once per turn. Also probably not worth it.

p5freak wrote:
Command points are a scarce resource. Here is my guide to get/save command points.

Include a detachment of ultramarines. Their warlord trait is every time you use a Command Point, roll a D6. On a 5+, this Command Point is refunded. Note that you roll for each command point spent.

Include a detachment of dark angels. Their warlord trait is once per battle, your Warlord gets a free re-roll and you get a CP back each time you use a strat on a 5+. Not as good as ultramarines, if you use a 2 or 3 CP strat you only get to roll one dice.

Include a detachment of astra militarum. Their warlord trait grand strategist is whilst your Warlord is alive, you can re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll or saving throw per battle. In addition, if your army is Battle-forged and this Warlord is on the battlefield, roll a dice for each Command Point spent when using Stratagems. On a 5+ that Command Point is immediately refunded. This is the best because you get to roll for every command point. Also add kurovs aquila, each time your opponent uses a Stratagem, roll a D6. On a 5+ you gain 1 Command Point. Its free if your warlord is from astra militarum.

Use 1 CP to buy the veritas vitae for one your BA characters. If your army is Battle-forged and the bearer is on the battlefield, roll a D6 each time you use a Stratagem; on a 5+, you gain a Command Point. You can use grand strategist maybe you get the CP back.

If you use the veritas vitae and grand strategist/kurovs aquila combo you get to roll two dice for every 1 CP stratagem you use. If you roll 5+ on both dice you get 2 CP. Kurovs aquila lets you roll everytime your opponent uses a stratagem, on a 5+ you get a command point.

Another way to get a command point is the damocles command rhino. Roll 2D6 at the end of each of your turns if your Warlord is embarked within a Damocles Command Rhino. If the total rolled is less than your Warlord's Leadership characteristic, you gain one Command point. This doesnt allow you to use the dark angels or ultramarines warlord trait, because your warlord is not considered to be on the battlefield while embarked. But the chance of rolling a 8 or less with two dice is higher than rolling a 5+ on one dice. If your warlord is ultramarines he gets leadership +1, and if you give him the +1 leadership warlord trait from the BRB you get 1 CP on a roll of 10 or less. This is pretty expensive (~200 pts.) and it only lets you roll once per turn. Probably not worth it.

Another way to save CPs is to use the land raider prometheus. While your army's Warlord is embarked within this model one Stratagem played in a turn by the controlling player costs one fewer Command point than normal (to a minimum of 1). Its nice to save 1 CP, but its only once per turn. Also probably not worth it.

Don’t you need a BA warlord to have a BA relic? Stratagem or not?

Says so under Relics of Baal.

Same for AM relics. AM warlord needed.

Budzerker wrote:

Don’t you need a BA warlord to have a BA relic? Stratagem or not?

Says so under Relics of Baal.

Same for AM relics. AM warlord needed.

You dont need a BA warlord to get a BA relic. If you have a warlord you get a free relic for that faction. But you can also buy relics with stratagems.

p5freak wrote:

Budzerker wrote:

Don’t you need a BA warlord to have a BA relic? Stratagem or not?

Says so under Relics of Baal.

Same for AM relics. AM warlord needed.

You dont need a BA warlord to get a BA relic. If you have a warlord you get a free relic for that faction. But you can also buy relics with stratagems.

First it's definitely not intended in the armory stratagem second if we follow RAW, it says that you can purchase an extra relic. I don't see how you can have an extra relic if you can't have one in the first place. It doesn't overule the relic rule for warlord.

PandatheWarrior wrote:

First it's definitely not intended in the armory stratagem second if we follow RAW, it says that you can purchase an extra relic. I don't see how you can have an extra relic if you can't have one in the first place. It doesn't overule the relic rule for warlord.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/746193.page

PandatheWarrior wrote:

p5freak wrote:

Budzerker wrote:

Don’t you need a BA warlord to have a BA relic? Stratagem or not?

Says so under Relics of Baal.

Same for AM relics. AM warlord needed.

You dont need a BA warlord to get a BA relic. If you have a warlord you get a free relic for that faction. But you can also buy relics with stratagems.

First it's definitely not intended in the armory stratagem second if we follow RAW, it says that you can purchase an extra relic. I don't see how you can have an extra relic if you can't have one in the first place. It doesn't overule the relic rule for warlord.

Per the Death Guard FAQ, it is absolutely intended for you to be able to use the stratagem to get relics from factions other than your warlord's faction.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Hoodwink wrote:
Also of note, Grey Knights can basically do the same thing as Blood Angels as far as getting out of CC penalty free. GK can use their Infinity Gate psychic power to redeploy on the board while BA use a stratagem to do the same thing. Both are legit and used as intended.

True. But GK are hardly comparable with BA.
See https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/747003.page#9755911

I'm not saying that GK are comparable to BA. I'm saying that the GK psychic power and the BA stratagem both do the same thing, and GK set a precedent for removing models from the table and redeploying them without falling back since the GK were released first.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

PandatheWarrior wrote:

p5freak wrote:

Budzerker wrote:

Don’t you need a BA warlord to have a BA relic? Stratagem or not?

Says so under Relics of Baal.

Same for AM relics. AM warlord needed.

You dont need a BA warlord to get a BA relic. If you have a warlord you get a free relic for that faction. But you can also buy relics with stratagems.

First it's definitely not intended in the armory stratagem second if we follow RAW, it says that you can purchase an extra relic. I don't see how you can have an extra relic if you can't have one in the first place. It doesn't overule the relic rule for warlord.

Per the Death Guard FAQ, it is absolutely intended for you to be able to use the stratagem to get relics from factions other than your warlord's faction.

Fair enough.

I don't know if this has been covered before or if I've overlooked it but since you have to take the Shard as a relic if you are running a successor chapter, can you use the Armory of Baal stratagem to get a different relic in addition? Assuming the first is the Shard. I guess I'm just kind of confused on if successor chapters are only ever allowed to take the Shard.

Also, has anyone looked at running three Vindicators for Linebreaker? They are cheaper than Predators and damage degredation doesn't affect Linebreaker until one is fully destroyed. RAW it looks like you can move them up, advance, and still get the stratagem off since you are not firing the Demolisher Cannon. This also leads me to believe you can pop smoke at the same time since you are not firing your weapon, as stated by the stratagem. So now you have three T8 tanks in the enemy grill with a -1 to hit and popping off mortal wounds.