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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
[spoiler]
None of this matters because GW was always expensive even for a company that makes models. The price rises aren't tied to inflation or anything they just get raised while at the same time cheaper alternatives such as bundles or good value box sets become rare.
When my hobby group started 30k (pre-Calth) there were loads of FW bundles ranging from Tactical blobs to Vehicles+accompanying units. Calth dropped and even more 30k bundles got dropped, then a couple of months after Prospero was released the entire bundle range gets axed and so do the box sets in favour of some Legion upgrade kits and 10-man boxes of the plastic PA models. 30k goes from being still expensive but very accessible, to annoyingly expensive and almost impossible to get people to start.


That and the fact that GW intentionally makes their product as least efficient as possible in many cases. Take the Tau Fire Warrior box for instance. It's a 10 man kit, but if it had 10 more torsos and a few more legs, it would be 20 man kit of 10 strike team members and 10 breacher team members at virtually no cost increase. But then people would buy less kits because they would have more models.

I'm not trying to defend GW or say they're not greedy, they sure are, but there can be more than one reason why something is happening.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/28 19:46:23


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 NinthMusketeer wrote:
GW prices are high, but it is a total crapshoot how much.


Yeah, there's no consistency at all. I'm constantly surprised at what is (somewhat) reasonably priced and what is way to expensive.


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Karol wrote:
It doesn't have to be a tournament. The 10VP for painting is a basic rule.


It is not a requirement to win a game - especially not via paint points - to learn how to play and build an understanding of the armies.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Tittliewinks22 wrote:
I miss fire points on vehicles :(
I miss vehicles.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Karol wrote:
It doesn't have to be a tournament. The 10VP for painting is a basic rule.


It is not a requirement to win a game - especially not via paint points - to learn how to play and build an understanding of the armies.
Some people would rather not admit that winning the game is a requirement for them to have fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Tittliewinks22 wrote:
I miss fire points on vehicles :(
I miss vehicles.
exalted!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/28 23:33:59


Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page

I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
ERJAK wrote:
...probably has a some amount of Nazi memorabilia, has many concerning opinions about racial and cultural minorities, and/or likely refers to women as 'females'.
--Saying this about another member does not violate Dakka's Rule #1, apparently. 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

I have opposite feelings. Now I can finally play my vehicles, even tons of them, after more than a decade. And they've never been so good.

Also all those clunky and controversial mechanics that vehicle had are long gone, and I cannot be happier about that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.


They raised their prices twice in the last 4-5 years. Second time was definitely a consequence of brexit. Covid had nothing to do with prices.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 08:39:20



 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Karol wrote:
It doesn't have to be a tournament. The 10VP for painting is a basic rule.


It is not a requirement to win a game - especially not via paint points - to learn how to play and build an understanding of the armies.


10VP is the avarge of what a secondary can give, any player can have 3 of them. If someone gets an extra one, without doing any game related activity then it gives them a huge edge over their opponent. It means they could fail to get any points from their regular secondary objective and still avarge the same number of points, they would normally get. And while it is true that having a painted army does not give you a win, if you play against another painted army, it very much adds to the chance of an opponent with an unpainted army losing. The game scoring system doesn't care how much someone understand the game or their army. It is like football, one team takes 20 shots scores 0, the other team shots one time and it scores. The team with the one goal scored is the winner. I do give you that, the new players very learns very fast that in order to have a chance to win vs armies that are painted his army has to be painted too. Takes like one game you lost because of paint points, and you know what you have to do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Some people would rather not admit that winning the game is a requirement for them to have fun.


And maybe it isn't. But when you dig down you suddenly find out that the game has nothing to do with the game, but with stuff like spending time with friends, showing your painted or converted army to others, not being at home with parents or wife on the weekend etc Sure all of those can be reasons that can make spending time, while losing, still enjoyable. But they have nothing to do with playing the game. Same way someone who only likes to paint models, doesn't really care about the quality of the game, and vice versa.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 08:51:02


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I agree with a few of the ops points, is it as bad ? I will say maybe lets see a few more books. However formations coming in under different names and all the amazing levels of bloat don't really make me feel good.

The prices are intense and out of this world, for me at least. I'm pretty much finishing out collections then just riding out this crazy train.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I started coasting on 40k a couple of years ago.
I looked at starting Imperial Guard, way too much money would be needed.
Killteam has me excited about Tau again. But again, I looked a new 40k army, way too much money. Even a Killteam is going to smart for what it is, but bareably so.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 kirotheavenger wrote:
These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.



Exactly this and yet people will take any chance to try and reason out some of their outrageous choices. It's crazy to me but there it is.

Some things they put out for in AoS actually aren't too bad, like the new blood knights price is great imo, even the new zombies and skeletons feels good to me for the sculpts. Most 40k offerings ? Feel like a kick in the gonads with a golf shoe.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




The new kill team looks interesting though, a dice change and adding overwatch always on, and it would play a lot like infinity.

Cost wise it still isn't cheap, but it is cheaper then regular w40k too. I wonder how the AoS version of kill team is doing. Sadly I never saw anyone want to play it here,

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 kirotheavenger wrote:
I started coasting on 40k a couple of years ago.
I looked at starting Imperial Guard, way too much money would be needed.
Killteam has me excited about Tau again. But again, I looked a new 40k army, way too much money. Even a Killteam is going to smart for what it is, but bareably so.


You want system shock looking up the cost of a new 40k army will give it to you. It's why I was so perplexed by all the people so over the top about new guard models with krieg squads, I think people are in some kind of mindset they won't be at minimum around 55 USD, but could be anywhere as high as 65 or 70 USD. GW have no filter when it comes to prices. The heavy ints are too dang high, but the cost of the flayed ones makes them look like a steal, makes me wonder what they are flaying, I'm assuming your wallets.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

What boggles my mind is every time you raise the price issue, people come down on you like "no! If you buy this boxset you save so much money, every character alone is worth £25!"
Just... urgh... that's not how value works
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Blackie wrote:
I have opposite feelings. Now I can finally play my vehicles, even tons of them, after more than a decade. And they've never been so good.

Also all those clunky and controversial mechanics that vehicle had are long gone, and I cannot be happier about that.

“Unless you play drukari and to a lesser extent orkz and ad-mech, this statement is more or less wrong. See many vehicles in SM or CSM lists? How about those IG and their tanks? Sisters? Necrons? The best vehicles in these factions are need fillers no one wants to play. Even in drukhari, ad-mech, (and maybe orkz) only the extremely pushed vehicles see play. (Raiders, chicken walkers, buggies)”

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.


They raised their prices twice in the last 4-5 years. Second time was definitely a consequence of brexit. Covid had nothing to do with prices.


Please stop trying to justify a Cooperation attempting to make more money. As someone else said, GW raises prices when they believe the margin increase from this will exceed lost sales. Nothing more nothing less. If the exporting thing was really an issue, then we’d see a further increase on the premium non-UK customers pay on product (which “coincidently” really started to increase once Brexit was announced and the pound sterling starting losing value relative to the rest of the worlds currency)

Finally GW did raise prices plenty before their actual “price raise.” They just did it for very specific models and for new releases. You saw this with a lot of new AOS units being priced 20-30% higher than their 40k equivalents. From a business perspective, raising prices on existing stock looks bad and makes it much harder to get rid of it from your shelves. However, new items being priced higher has neither of these shortcomings (new stuff always sells well). It’s also why GW announced the price increases at the end of 8th. That way they could sell off their now pricier shelf supply with new codex release and box sets throughout 9th. That way people would really only feel the effects of the increase once they got their new codex and therefore have to buy more models.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 09:37:05


 
   
Made in de
Ork Admiral Kroozin Da Kosmos on Da Hulk






I've been with this hobby for over a decade and I can't remember a year when they didn't raise prices.

GW is selling a luxury good, their prices are not governed by supply and demand or production costs but solely by how much people are willing to pay.

They are not our friends, they are just being friendly because people are less willing to give money to donkey-caves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 09:42:59


Earth is not flat
Vaccines work
We've been to the moon
Climate change is real
Chemtrails aren't a thing
Evolution is a fact
Orks are not a melee army
Stand up for science!
 
   
Made in it
Gargantuan Gargant




Italy

I don't justify anything, quite the opposite. In fact GW priced me out. I won't invest money in 40k models anymore and I'll just stick with the collections I have.

Since the end of 7th I've just bought a couple fantasy armies that were still on the catalogue (dark elves and empire) and Necromunda models. No 40k as I don't justify the current prices.

I'm ok with that. I wish GW stuff costs 50% less but amen, nothing I can do about it other than investing only in what I can afford.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/29 09:43:27



 
   
Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




 NinthMusketeer wrote:
GW prices are high, but it is a total crapshoot how much.


Made a little chart for sisters, its price per sprue (in euros, with 15% off GW price, which is about how much you can buy them for when i live)

edit : the "base" sprue is one found in medium boxes (infantry). some characters are made of half that sprue size, which explains some very high price per sprue.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
also adding to the conversation :

- stratagems should be removed entirely
- USR should be brought back
- Auras should use CP to be activated
- AP -1 should disappear on troops' weapons

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/29 10:20:03


 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Jidmah wrote:
I've been with this hobby for over a decade and I can't remember a year when they didn't raise prices.

GW is selling a luxury good, their prices are not governed by supply and demand or production costs but solely by how much people are willing to pay.

They are not our friends, they are just being friendly because people are less willing to give money to donkey-caves.


From stories that are told about them and what I saw in 8th and 9th, a large enough chunk of GW buyers do not care, if they are donkeys or not.

Also there is a difference between a company not being a friend, and a company cutting up content, puting out unreleased or unupdated content, or content they know is bad, but they have to put out something so they put out X or Y. Still of course not as bad as a company deciding that the law suits from exploding gas tanks are going to cost them less the potential return of a whole car line or telling people that maybe DDT is not that healthy after all, and doesn't just kill insencts.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 kirotheavenger wrote:
These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.


At one point I was going to do some gardening so I went to home depot and bought a shovel. Just a standard shovel with a stainless steel head and solid construction, the exact thing you see in your head when you think "Shovel."

I remember looking at it, this thing that required a piece of wood to be shaped, stained, steel to be waterjet cut, hydroformed, eletropolished, then screwed in to the wood and a couple logos woodburned into the side of the handle....cost me exactly as much money as exactly 1, tiny, injection-molded howling banshee.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Striking Scorpion




North Carolina

 the_scotsman wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.


At one point I was going to do some gardening so I went to home depot and bought a shovel. Just a standard shovel with a stainless steel head and solid construction, the exact thing you see in your head when you think "Shovel."

I remember looking at it, this thing that required a piece of wood to be shaped, stained, steel to be waterjet cut, hydroformed, eletropolished, then screwed in to the wood and a couple logos woodburned into the side of the handle....cost me exactly as much money as exactly 1, tiny, injection-molded howling banshee.


I love slice of life comparisons like this. This really is a silly hobby we partake in, but goshdarnit, I've sunk so much into it already, I can't stop now!
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






Incoming Admech nerfs

GW wrote:Since the release of Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, it became clear some of Sean and Steve’s predictions for this codex were almost too on the money – some of their rules interactions were a bit more powerful than intended. As a result, expect to see a FAQ release for Adeptus Mechanicus tomorrow dealing with some of the sharpest ends of their collective stick – in particular, large blocks of Skitarii troops and some of the interactions over-tuning Ironstrider Ballistari.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Obviously, to each their own. If you've made the decision the game is too expensive, and you're out, congratulations on your choice. I respect that.

The other way to roll, if you're ambivalent about prices is to take advantage of the four game sizes. Because technically, for every army that has a Combat Patrol box, you can say the cost for the army is $170 CAD.

You may not like the contents of the CP box. That's valid. You may prefer 2K point games- also valid. You may live in an area where it's hard to find a 25PL game- not only is this valid, it's kinda heart breaking: I wish everyone had the option of playing the game in ways that are less problematic.

The point is though, that GW made 4 game sizes a big part of this edition for a reason. They know that a segment of their audience is getting priced out of the 2k game. This is why their core mechanics now give us other options.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 xttz wrote:
Incoming Admech nerfs

GW wrote:Since the release of Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, it became clear some of Sean and Steve’s predictions for this codex were almost too on the money – some of their rules interactions were a bit more powerful than intended. As a result, expect to see a FAQ release for Adeptus Mechanicus tomorrow dealing with some of the sharpest ends of their collective stick – in particular, large blocks of Skitarii troops and some of the interactions over-tuning Ironstrider Ballistari.


Classic GW. Never admit responsibility for the mess they made themselves by releasing broken products, then act like fixing those mistakes two months later is some kind of big favor and service to the community.

   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Ironstriders are about to lose Core, aren't they?

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ironstriders are about to lose Core, aren't they?

It would be a nice correction.

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Halifax

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
 the_scotsman wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
These price increases were happening well before shipping went to chaos. Look at Eldar Banshees.

This is just GW seeing how high they can push their margins before people start walking away. There's no reason to excuse them.


At one point I was going to do some gardening so I went to home depot and bought a shovel. Just a standard shovel with a stainless steel head and solid construction, the exact thing you see in your head when you think "Shovel."

I remember looking at it, this thing that required a piece of wood to be shaped, stained, steel to be waterjet cut, hydroformed, eletropolished, then screwed in to the wood and a couple logos woodburned into the side of the handle....cost me exactly as much money as exactly 1, tiny, injection-molded howling banshee.


I love slice of life comparisons like this. This really is a silly hobby we partake in, but goshdarnit, I've sunk so much into it already, I can't stop now!

Sunk cost aside, there's massive economies of scale. The shovel probably sells in the hundreds of thousands, while the banshee sells in the dozens.

   
Made in ie
Ruthless Rafkin





 xttz wrote:
Incoming Admech nerfs

GW wrote:Since the release of Codex: Adeptus Mechanicus, it became clear some of Sean and Steve’s predictions for this codex were almost too on the money – some of their rules interactions were a bit more powerful than intended. As a result, expect to see a FAQ release for Adeptus Mechanicus tomorrow dealing with some of the sharpest ends of their collective stick – in particular, large blocks of Skitarii troops and some of the interactions over-tuning Ironstrider Ballistari.


Are we assuming that they'll be nerfed so hard that they'll be useless?


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Sim-Life wrote:
Are we assuming that they'll be nerfed so hard that they'll be useless?
GW has a real knack for overcompensating and overbalancing. The middle ground is something they've never really heard about, let alone seen. It's always big pendulum swings with them.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Storm Trooper with Maglight





France, region of Paris

The Drukhari raider went from 85 points to 95 in a FAQ soon after their codex dropped. Thus going from way underpriced to still very potent. Alongside the crayziest combos being shut down (dark technomancers + liquifier gun, and blender succubus toned down). But overall the codex is still very strong, so yes, GW can bring some corrections without overcompensating. There is hope.

longtime Astra Militarum neckbeard  
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

I think Dark Eldar is a good example of them undercompensating.
Odds are they'll do the same with Admech as well, I'd be surprised if they drop very far.
   
 
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