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Made in fi
Calculating Commissar







I am old. Way older than many of you, having started with this grand game back in second edition. As such, the mindset and intentions of modern Games Workshop rules designers are completely opaque and senseless to me. All I can see is that they're in constant conflict between simplification and complication, and the Custodes gun-katas being a poorly formatted example of the latter.

Why 9th edition is better with rules like this instead of, say, a list of USRs in the rulebook like 6th, or a separate Strategy Card deck like 2nd, I can only guess at. Presumably they've done all their market research and their findings show, that this game of mess will sell well for a year or so, before another cull in the name of simplification, and thus the cycle begins anew with 10th edition.

Dig me a grave where I can nurture a hatred most sublime
For the fools who made this mess and think it not a crime 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass. Whatever they pile on today will stick around until the next version of the codex arrives. Only then will they get rid of unliked mechanics in favor of new mechanics.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Tampa,FL USA

 alextroy wrote:
You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass.


3rd Ed did that coming from 2nd. There's a reason the BRB contained army lists. It was a MASSIVE change.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/12/04 00:59:46


You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
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Made in at
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





People complained armour facings were the devil. Making Crossfire a USR would probably make peoples brains melt.

   
Made in us
Haemonculi Flesh Apprentice






 Platuan4th wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass.


3rd Ed did that coming from 2nd. There's a reason the BRB contained army lists. It was a MASSIVE change.


To go even further, I'd argue the changes from 2nd to 3rd were even bigger then the changes from 7th to 8th

   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





 Arbitrator wrote:
People complained armour facings were the devil. Making Crossfire a USR would probably make peoples brains melt.



Crossfire is a very simple mechanic that uses the same "core" as several others (obscuring, dense cover), and those aren't blowing any minds.

Armour facings would be fine if we also cared about non-vehicle facings and also had a consistent intuitive way to figure out facings of non-rectangular vehicles.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut





Rihgu wrote:
 Arbitrator wrote:
People complained armour facings were the devil. Making Crossfire a USR would probably make peoples brains melt.


Crossfire is a very simple mechanic that uses the same "core" as several others (obscuring, dense cover), and those aren't blowing any minds.

Armour facings would be fine if we also cared about non-vehicle facings and also had a consistent intuitive way to figure out facings of non-rectangular vehicles.

This. Facings were crap, poorly represented on models (Land Raider with exposed engine being AV14 all around while armoured Russes for some reason are paper thin 10 at the back, but exposed engine FW Russ variant being 11, go figure), monsters ignored them, caused no end of issues when firing unit was on diagonal, etc, etc. Either everything in game has facings or nothing, abstraction on only half of the units is a garbage system that makes some unit trash for no reason whatsoever (which was always mentioned in discussions about vehicles in old editions, but I guess rose glass blinkers brigade already forgot about that).

And then joker of a writer for Tau made facings even more comical by giving Tau special rules that ignored them (special super penetrating tactic that allowed Tau to always target rear AV, apparently they can make lasers and railgun bullets fly in U shape when firer is in the front) or made Tau walkers steered with a joystick monsters to give them T instead of AV and a bunch of broken rules MCs had (when SM walkers piloted with a thought like your own body were still clumsy and easily beatable by Tau ones in melee), such fluff, much wow LOL

I also like people still defend flaming trash can that was USRs after playing a game of old edition recently and seeing why they were stupid idea again. Let's see, dozens of rage/furious charge/fury/other charge and similar nonsense ""USR""s that differed only in tiny details and were pretty much 'bespoke' rules we have now only requiring you to frantically flip big book to look up instead of being on unit card (funny that some people always whining about 'bespoke' never seem to complain about these, eh?), ""USR""s that were limited to one unit in one army (CSM blaze thing was super ""universal"" LOL), really, there is a case to be made about armies each having a page of common rules of their own in Codex for ease of update, but USRs of old edition in rulebook were as garbage in use as armoury system that sadly only 5th edition dared to can for a bit.

So, yeah, I am puzzled how people can still be about terribad system that was rightfully binned. Are you people still using MS DOS or something?
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







Nice to see Irbis providing an ongoing example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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 Kanluwen wrote:
This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.

Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army... 
   
Made in de
Terrifying Doombull






Nuremberg

Irbis is great, those posts are like pure adrenaline.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Red Corsair wrote:
 Platuan4th wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
You say that like there has been any edition other than 8th that cleared away the complications of a prior edition on mass.


3rd Ed did that coming from 2nd. There's a reason the BRB contained army lists. It was a MASSIVE change.


To go even further, I'd argue the changes from 2nd to 3rd were even bigger then the changes from 7th to 8th
The move from 2nd to 3rd, as I've heard, was almost a completely different game. That being side, did it clear away the complications of the prior edition or just change everything for a different play experience?

But we can agree that only 3rd and 8th editions invalidated priorly released material at release.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.


Well, there it is!
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmmmmm...I quite fancy the Genecults if Henry want to go halves.

Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.

 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

Fingers crossed for cheap Allarus Terminators flooding the market.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/05 22:06:54


Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in ie
Fixture of Dakka






Shadow Throne is £105, €140, $165 (US price based on Command Edition but might vary like the Euro price has)

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/12/06 13:23:51


 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

AUD$280 then.

Ouch.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade in the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.





This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/12/10 22:59:26


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Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade I the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.


I'd assume it's just the same sword plus misericordia.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/10 22:57:08


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Laughing Man wrote:
ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade I the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.


I'd assume it's just the same sword plus misericordia.


Agreed, but it is nice to have even minimal variety, so you can run 2 non identical models if you like.
   
Made in de
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




One summary from reddit regarding gsc based of the first blurry review pictures of shadowthrone:

"Ok, a few things here.One, clandestine is a Saboteur ability, not army wide. Maaaaybe things like Sanctus get it, but certainly not Primus or Magus.Both Primus and Magus are better than before. Magus cast 2 powers now. I think the familiar allows a reroll.Primus is a mini-skitari marshall now, rerolling 1s to hit and wound. He's going to be a must have. Also gain +1T and one extra attack with the claw.Patriarch gains 4++ and one wound, but loses 1 point of Strength and both auras (fearless is combat attrition now, which sucks, and +1 to hit for genestealers is gone). Claws are better (damage 2, still flat 3 with 6s). Overall, it's better, 4++ is a big boost, so is the 7th wound (need 3 hits from D3 weapons now).The saboteur gimmick bomb is going to be pretty useless. It's deployed in command phase (so can't use in the turn she deepstrike), at 1", and can't move while doing it. I don't see it being used much, unless there are stratagems to boost it, like placing it at range.

Shotguns are S4.I can't read the webber, or the seismic cannon.
EDIT: I think Webber is S1, roll 1d6, if the roll is higher than the highest enemy S in the target unit, do 1 mortal wound."

   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






Boneswords are +1S 2D, hopefully that carries over to the Tyranid codex too. Edit: might just be for the Primus

As expected the Patriarch changes from D3 to flat 2 damage.

Looks like Neophytes can have any 2 heavy plus 2 special weapons per 10 models, and they're not limited to the bits in the kit like Skitarii.
They're going to be fairly shooty.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/11 09:49:58


 
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


So +1 wound and attack for trajan but only +1 wound to the Vexillus so I'm not sure if custodes will receive more attacks or wounds. At least, Trajan weapon goes to damage 3. Thats nice.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

Misericordia no longer has a line about storm shields, so that's possibly good.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Vexillarus may not get a bonus attack because of holding the banner.
   
Made in us
Never Forget Isstvan!






making misericorda's free isnt quite as good as +1A across the board, but its certainly not a bad fix.

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Made in us
Master Tormentor






St. Louis

 Eihnlazer wrote:
making misericorda's free isnt quite as good as +1A across the board, but its certainly not a bad fix.

Datasheets don't typically show points, so it's unlikely to be free.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




At the Gates of Azyr

 Galas wrote:
Spoiler:


Spoiler:


So +1 wound and attack for trajan but only +1 wound to the Vexillus so I'm not sure if custodes will receive more attacks or wounds. At least, Trajan weapon goes to damage 3. Thats nice.


Do my eyes deceive me or does the Prosecutor have Move 7”?

Trajan looking more like the badass he should be.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/11 22:02:51


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





https://www.instagram.com/p/CXVs0t3tMEI/

For those curious, here's the alternate pose with the custode character. I sort of like this one better, though I'd like to swap out the knife hand with one of the open hands from the standard kit.
   
Made in us
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Gathering the Informations.

Man, my Skitarii Marshal is jealous of that Custodes character.
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






 GaroRobe wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CXVs0t3tMEI/

For those curious, here's the alternate pose with the custode character. I sort of like this one better, though I'd like to swap out the knife hand with one of the open hands from the standard kit.


It's weird that I actually like the alternate bare head for once rather than the helmeted version, especially with the two sword pose option they have set up. I'm not sure why but something about the helmet angle makes it look off for me.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 Laughing Man wrote:
ListenToMeWarriors wrote:
Looking at the sprues the new GSC character has 2 head options whilst the blade Champion has 1 helmeted and 2 bare as well as an option for big sword in one hand and smaller blade I the other as an alternative to the big swinging dual hand option.


I'd assume it's just the same sword plus misericordia.



Agreed, but it is nice to have even minimal variety, so you can run 2 non identical models if you like.



No Misericordia on the Blade Champion, his datasheet reads " A Blade Champion is equipped with: vaultswords". With those he has 3 fighting modes , select one when making your attacks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/18 13:46:44


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