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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCSVzOqqRHs&feature=related


i cried when i saw this

LOL that was awesome

Oh for the love of... we see that video at least once a month, from topics like these. please use the search function, there's a reason it's there.

The AA12 is not a boltgun. Bolters are 75mm gyrojet machine guns. The standard Godwyn pattern fires in 4 round bursts. The AA12 is an automatic shotgun.

Luke_Prowler wrote:Oh for the love of... we see that video at least once a month, from topics like these. please use the search function, there's a reason it's there.

sorry
i just found it
thought it was cool
plus post tend to get back logged

Luke_Prowler wrote:Oh for the love of... we see that video at least once a month, from topics like these. please use the search function, there's a reason it's there.

Yeah, seriously. And not just here-- also in the BoLS Lounge and other forums.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkHound wrote:The AA12 is not a boltgun. Bolters are 75mm gyrojet machine guns. The standard Godwyn pattern fires in 4 round bursts. The AA12 is an automatic shotgun.

The Boltgun is more complex than a Gyrojet-- or rather, its ammunition is more complex than gyrojet rockets.

Melissia wrote:The Boltgun is more complex than a Gyrojet-- or rather, its ammunition is more complex than gyrojet rockets.

Standard issue bolts? No.

Lexicanum wrote:Standard Bolts comprise the following components: Outer casing, propellant base, main charge, mass reactive detonator cap, depleted uranium core, diamantine tip.1 The standard bolter shell is standardised at .75 calibre, whereas heavy bolter rounds are larger, at 1.00 Cal.

Short of the "diamanite tip" that is a gyrojet rocket. Now obviously the payload of a Hellfire round is going to be more complex than that, but the definition is in the delivery. They're all gyrojet bolts.

DarkHound wrote:

Melissia wrote:The Boltgun is more complex than a Gyrojet-- or rather, its ammunition is more complex than gyrojet rockets.

Standard issue bolts? No.

Lexicanum wrote:Standard Bolts comprise the following components: Outer casing, propellant base, main charge, mass reactive detonator cap, depleted uranium core, diamantine tip.1 The standard bolter shell is standardised at .75 calibre, whereas heavy bolter rounds are larger, at 1.00 Cal.

Short of the "diamanite tip" that is a gyrojet rocket. Now obviously the payload of a Hellfire round is going to be more complex than that, but the definition is in the delivery. They're all gyrojet bolts.

Gyrojet rounds don't leave shell casings and aren't deadly when fired at point blank range. You can plug a gyrojet gun's barrel with your finger and you stop the bullet from hurting you. You can't say the same about a bolt weapon.

Actually, that is entirely untrue. Although gyrojet bolts have a much lower muzzle velocity than conventional weapons, they still move at 100 feet per second. That is more than enough to take your finger off. Now given that bolters fire armor piercing, high explosive rounds a lower muzzle velocity is actually better. If your bolt actually over penetrates then you're missing most of your explosive punch, but if it only just enters the body before detonating... well, it makes a much more satisfying mess. As for leaving shell casings, I blame artistic licence.

No, what I stated has always been a known problem with gyrojet weaponry. Sometimes, gyrojet rockets didn't even manage to clear the barrel with enough velocity to actually be accurate, which is probably an ammunition problem.

Nuh ah!

*Ya huh!*

Nuh ah!

*Ya huh!*

Too bad gyrojets were never fully developed. Then again, if they were we wouldn't be having this debate.

Besides, Gyrojet weaponry don't have cases, while Bolter Shells do. Furthermore, Gyrojet weapons don't have that much recoil compared to normal weapons, while Bolter weapons have a ton of recoil.

Effectively, a bolter shell is a gyrojet round within a casing which fired as a traditional bullet would fire, used to increase the initial velocity of the shell.

I sitll think all that is artistic licence. I mean, otherwise there'd be sound in space, man portable railguns that fire at nearly the speed of light, time travel, etc. You can't trust what you see. The artists don't do their research. Only the obscure technical books that Forgeworld and their ilk put out are trust worthy.

Bolters are also said to leave casings in Dark Heresy, too.

If a bolt shell falls in the woods with nobody around, does it make a sound?

Seriously who cares? Why are we debating this? Its a game. Like DarkHound said, it was created by people who are not munitions experts, and artistic license definitely comes into play.

The AA12 that they were previewing in the OP's link has a special munition that achieves the same end effect as a bolter: an explosive submunition that can be fired rapidly from a small arms weapon. Does it really matter that it doesn't move the same speed, or carry the same payload, or leave a casing? No. It doesnt.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Why are we debating this?

Because we want to.

And yes, it does matter. Having roughly the same effect != being the same weapon.

No, bolters are used by Space Marines. Is that other thing? No, didn't think so.

Wow, really? I thought a fully-automatic shotgun was the same as a bolter. /sarcasm

Don't patronize me. Please, show me an honest to god bolter and I'll show you a delusional person. 40k does not exist, get over it.

Actually, I'm fairly certain we could create a bolter with the technology we have today. The thing is, it's not really all that useful, especially compared to the expense in ammunition.

Oh really, and you are a munitions expert now? Do tell me how you would go about making a caseless, gyrostabilized explosive projectile small enough to be fired fully-automatically from a small arm.... oh wait, they already did. The AA12.

The technology is being developed, is the point of the OP. The rest of this argument belongs in the 40k background section, as it has little relevance to this thread.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:caseless

Bolter shells aren't caseless.

Again. Nobody cares but you.

And coincidentally, neither are the AA12's.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Again. Nobody cares but you.

That's not really very productive now, is it?

The topic is about an example of an "IRL Boltgun", you are claiming that this indeed is one. I pointed out a flaw in your claim. That's no reason to flippantly dismiss the entire topic and claim it doesn't matter. Of course it doesn't matter, we knew that going into the thread. If you didn't want to argue, you wouldn't be posting in the thread, yes?

How about both of you stop hissy-fitting over it like a bunch of children?

My posts in this thread are hardly "hissy fits"

If they were there'd be a lot more profanity

methinks i need one.... both an actual bolter and this shotgun. would make the gangs here crap their pants

DarkHound wrote:The AA12 is not a boltgun. Bolters are 75mm gyrojet machine guns. The standard Godwyn pattern fires in 4 round bursts. The AA12 is an automatic shotgun.

In addition to wanting, no needing to point out to OP that this has been done several times. I feel like bringing up one slight thing DarkHound, the Bolters shoot .75 caliber rounds, which is somewhere around 19.5mm, which also happens to be roughly around the size of a 12gauge Shotgun Slug.


Everyone else, stop arguing with each other seriously, stop now.

I came into this thread to "argue", although I suppose I have a different definition of "argue" than you do with vastly different connotations.

You may not have come into to, but is deteriorating into it. Your heated 'debate' I suppose you could call it with FoxPhoenix is quickly turning into arguing and by many could be con-screwed as flaming or trolling one another.

I'm going off what I've seen stated by mods in other threads, just a fair warning.

No I said I did come into the thread for that very reason

To me, "argue" does not have bad connotations. We had disagreements, but it hasn't gotten to the point where we're tossing insults or profanity at eachother, so I hardly call it heated...


edit: Also, take this to PMs if you want to continue it... this is what, four posts off topic now? That's just as bad as a heated debate if I read the rules correctly...