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so, i'm curious if anyone has said "screw it" and ran 9 LR hulls of whatever kind?
I'm sure the squadroning rules make it a huge waste of points, but the look on someones face
would be funny too.
tell me if you have and how it worked. or if you faced it down and how you dealt with it.

Never faced one, but i know what i would do.

3 squadrons of 3 MM landspeeders.


Opponent: i have 9 Russes.

Me: we will see about that.


First turn:

Opponent: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

Meh, in 1,750 I fought a list with seven leman russes. He probably could have fit another one if he dropped the sponsons and lascannons.

I mopped him good though. Should be a battle report about it. Nevermind, there is a battle report of it, and I wrote it.

I think it is only feasible at 2,500 ish level. Err, feasible isn't the correct word.

Impractical, IMO.

But I would so very much love to have 9 executioners with plasma cannon sponsons and lascannons in a game, even if it does cost, you know, 2205 points. The look on the opponent's face...

When he realises you have nothing to hurt his Landraiders.

Or nine Punishers against an ork horde...so tempting, but so cash expensive! And you only get away with it once!

That, and that nine punishers wouldn't be that good against an ork horde.

I wouldn't run 9, just because one slot has to go to a Manticore. However, 6 sounds much more feasible. 3 Demolishers and 3 Plain perhaps?

Piling on more AV14 is nice, but it does hit a point of diminishing return, after which point the sacrifices you make in everything else isn't covered by just adding more AV14.

As well, russes have relatively low firepower for their points (their points being inflated due to having better durability against long range shooting), and so an 1850 point army that was just 9 bolter boat russes, 2 non-mech vets and a stripped down HQ would also have firepower problems, in addition to mobility and scoring problems.

We have a guy who shows up at the FLGS who sometimes plays 9 Russes - they can't get out of each other's way. Russes are big and slow and armor 10 in the rear. It's pretty sad when crisis suits can drop in... fusion/missile pod something then CHARGE and wreak havoc.

There just aren't enough fast things to react to landspeeders and deep strikers and such.

3 MM Landspeeders drop in - hit twice, most likely pen twice so two Leman Russes are probably either dead or at least not shooting. With 3 Squadrons, you are only shooting at three targets - usually overkill. 450+ points of shooting to wipe out a couple of 75 point landspeeders is a poor investment.

Well as for the 9 russes mobility problem, simple. Don't take fething sponsons. Solve Ailaros' problems too.

As for the deep striking speeders, as long as your not playing in a low point match, that is infinitely easy to avoid.

You have to "squadron" them, don't you? So those nine Russes could only shoot at three different targets, correct?

Eh...The problem isn't someone doing it. I'm sure people would be happy to do it...If they didn't have to pay so much money. I believe that's about 450$ worth of models.

I would totally do a LRBT Min-max list if I had lots of money. If I win the lottery, or whore myself out tonight, I'd buy one. Otherwise,no.

And 3 MM speeder squads would b ownage.

Samus_aran115 wrote:And 3 MM speeder squads would b ownage.

Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense? Dot the outsides with a platoon. Maximum spacing, forcing them outside of 12". That way, they cannot deepstrike close, or get 2d6 armor penetration. (ie: there speeders will be close to useless against the AV 14 powerhouse that is a leman russ.

Cool, but not worth the points... Squadrons rules, objective overkill, traffic jam and parking lot problems, for example, are just some of its problems... If you want 9 lemans go for spearhead IMO

I miss the old days of Armored Company. Even in the old WD AC rules I only ran 7 russes though, with a couple chimeras and storm troopers.

augustus5 wrote:I miss the old days of Armored Company. Even in the old WD AC rules I only ran 7 russes though, with a couple chimeras and storm troopers.

Isn't that where you can take Russes as troops?

I read about that somewhere.

Bare bones Russes would be 450 points a squadren. At 2k there just isn't enough points left over for troops. At 2,500 points it could work. It could include 9 Russes, 6 Melta vet squads in Chimera, and a plasmagun CCS with medic in a Chimera, or dump the CCS for a bare bones Primas Psycher and upgrade 2 Chimeras to Vendettas.

In a 2,500 point tournament many armies would not be tooled to fight that many AV14 tanks, other armies would be well tooled to fight it, and some armies would have a real fair fight against it. I think it would be fun army to play myself.

schadenfreude wrote:Bare bones Russes would be 450 points a squadren. At 2k there just isn't enough points left over for troops. At 2,500 points it could work. It could include 9 Russes, 6 Melta vet squads in Chimera, and a plasmagun CCS with medic in a Chimera, or dump the CCS for a bare bones Primas Psycher and upgrade 2 Chimeras to Vendettas.

In a 2,500 point tournament many armies would not be tooled to fight that many AV14 tanks, other armies would be well tooled to fight it, and some armies would have a real fair fight against it. I think it would be fun army to play myself.

not to mention the "shock and awe" factor. my first thought would be 9 Ord. templates! it wouldn't dawn on me at first it would only be 3 targets at a time. but then, 3 ord templates per target would be alot of hurt.
and mostly i think i could be fun in a friendly game.

Gavo wrote:

augustus5 wrote:I miss the old days of Armored Company. Even in the old WD AC rules I only ran 7 russes though, with a couple chimeras and storm troopers.

Isn't that where you can take Russes as troops?

I read about that somewhere.

Yes, you could take a command russ for your HQ, tank aces with elite slots, regular russes for troops, salamanders, sentinels, and hellhounds for fast attack, and demolishers, russes, and griffons for heavies if I recall correctly. The rules were printed in a WD issue, then later in one of the chapter approved books and pdf'd on GW's website.

There were special ammos to give to your russes as upgrades as well, and a few other goodies.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense? Dot the outsides with a platoon. Maximum spacing, forcing them outside of 12".

Which platoons? The ones you're buying with the points you don't have because all the points were spent on russes? Plus, this doesn't do anything against other options like chainfist terminators coming out of LR's you can't destroy, or outflankers, or even all deepstrikers (drop pods, marbo, lictors, etc.). Russes were painfully easy to destroy LAST edition when your opponent had his stuff together. Nowadays, you're just asking for a lot of smoking wrecks really early on while you struggle to complete objectives.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:
I think it is only feasible at 2,500 ish level. Err, feasible isn't the correct word.

Ailaros wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense? Dot the outsides with a platoon. Maximum spacing, forcing them outside of 12".

Which platoons? The ones you're buying with the points you don't have because all the points were spent on russes? Plus, this doesn't do anything against other options like chainfist terminators coming out of LR's you can't destroy, or outflankers, or even all deepstrikers (drop pods, marbo, lictors, etc.). Russes were painfully easy to destroy LAST edition when your opponent had his stuff together. Nowadays, you're just asking for a lot of smoking wrecks really early on while you struggle to complete objectives.

So at 2,500... with over 1,000 points to spend. You won't have enough for those?

Swing-and-a-miss.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:And 3 MM speeder squads would b ownage.

Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense?

So you're assuming that in 2500 points all your opponent is going to be able to field is 3MM's?

If that's the most anti-tank your opponent can bring, they DESERVE to loose to 9 russes. At this many points, it's so easy to bring enough anti-tank that the russes are still moot, despite putting a few pew-pew squads in front to screen it.

Ailaros wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense? Dot the outsides with a platoon. Maximum spacing, forcing them outside of 12".

Which platoons? The ones you're buying with the points you don't have because all the points were spent on russes? Plus, this doesn't do anything against other options like chainfist terminators coming out of LR's you can't destroy, or outflankers, or even all deepstrikers (drop pods, marbo, lictors, etc.). Russes were painfully easy to destroy LAST edition when your opponent had his stuff together. Nowadays, you're just asking for a lot of smoking wrecks really early on while you struggle to complete objectives.

1,000 is plenty of points for a platoon in a 2,500 point game. Personally I would go for 6 melta vet squads in Chimera instead, or 4 in Chimera and 2 in vendettas. 18 melta guns at BS4 is a lot for a land raider to charge into. These days most players rely on mechanized meltas to kill Russes, and 6 melta vet squads would be hard for those types of armies to deal with.

Drop pods would be good for slagging a Russ, but it's 1 of 9 Russes and if it's a tac squad inside they are going to eat battle cannon next turn as it's centered on the pod catching everybody inside as well.

Shooty deep strikers like ninja Tau can be detered with a Chimera wall in front of the Russes.

The advantage a 9 Russ 2,500 point list would have is most opponents would not be geared to fight them. Land Speeders with MM would do great against a 9 Russ list, but who fields them anymore? There are a lot of great anti Lemun Russ units out there that are not popular in tournaments. What is popular is mechanized melta guns which Vendettas, Chimera,and Melta vets are excellent at killing. Rhinos with melta guns just isn't going to make it past 6 mechanized melta gun vets, and if a Rhino goes pop the squad inside will eat battlecannon.

It's a Viable list against most armies, with only a few being a no hope match up. Sure some things will tear it to shreds like dark eldar raider spam, but other lists would cringe at the idea of 9 LRBT such as BA jump spam.

augustus5 wrote:Yes, you could take a command russ for your HQ, tank aces with elite slots, regular russes, armored fist squads and stormtroopers for troops, salamanders, sentinels, and hellhounds for fast attack, and demolishers, russes, and griffons for heavies if I recall correctly. The rules were printed in a WD issue, then later in one of the chapter approved books and pdf'd on GW's website.

There were special ammos to give to your russes as upgrades as well, and a few other goodies.

That's Imperial Armor 1, from Forgeworld: its an Armored Battlegroup. I know because I'm forgoing the standard IG codex for it to field more tanks and heavy mortars at the same time. Fantastic book for a tread-head. My LGS is fine with it, and so are my friends. I guess I can't take it to tournies, but that's a small price to pay. EDIT:Infact, I found the rules for it here.

Ailaros wrote:So you're assuming that in 2500 points all your opponent is going to be able to field is 3MM's?

If that's the most anti-tank your opponent can bring, they DESERVE to loose to 9 russes. At this many points, it's so easy to bring enough anti-tank that the russes are still moot, despite putting a few pew-pew squads in front to screen it.

Space Marines have no effective answer to a wall of AV14 outside of those 9 MM Speeders. Unless you spend all of your heavy support slots on Lascannon Predators too, you won't be harming a Leman Russ outside 12".

The only time I saw it was last year at ard boyz. The IG player was an old time veteran and he drew the Tyranid player that started the hobby about a month earlier. The table was almost devoid of all terrain, and this was a time before Venomthropes. I think he was tabled at the top of turn 3. We never saw the kid again after that day.

Ailaros wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:

Samus_aran115 wrote:And 3 MM speeder squads would b ownage.

Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense?

So you're assuming that in 2500 points all your opponent is going to be able to field is 3MM's?

If that's the most anti-tank your opponent can bring, they DESERVE to loose to 9 russes. At this many points, it's so easy to bring enough anti-tank that the russes are still moot, despite putting a few pew-pew squads in front to screen it.

... Keep the melta weapons outside of 12" with a screen, perhaps give the tanks a cover save. Instant durable tanks. I simply wrote that... using three multi-melta speeders would be moot against nine leman russes if you played in something larger than 1,520 points.

schadenfreude wrote:

Ailaros wrote:

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Do you really not know how to do a good anti-deepstrike defense? Dot the outsides with a platoon. Maximum spacing, forcing them outside of 12".

Which platoons? The ones you're buying with the points you don't have because all the points were spent on russes? Plus, this doesn't do anything against other options like chainfist terminators coming out of LR's you can't destroy, or outflankers, or even all deepstrikers (drop pods, marbo, lictors, etc.). Russes were painfully easy to destroy LAST edition when your opponent had his stuff together. Nowadays, you're just asking for a lot of smoking wrecks really early on while you struggle to complete objectives.

1,000 is plenty of points for a platoon in a 2,500 point game. Personally I would go for 6 melta vet squads in Chimera instead, or 4 in Chimera and 2 in vendettas. 18 melta guns at BS4 is a lot for a land raider to charge into. These days most players rely on mechanized meltas to kill Russes, and 6 melta vet squads would be hard for those types of armies to deal with.

Drop pods would be good for slagging a Russ, but it's 1 of 9 Russes and if it's a tac squad inside they are going to eat battle cannon next turn as it's centered on the pod catching everybody inside as well.

Shooty deep strikers like ninja Tau can be detered with a Chimera wall in front of the Russes.

The advantage a 9 Russ 2,500 point list would have is most opponents would not be geared to fight them. Land Speeders with MM would do great against a 9 Russ list, but who fields them anymore? There are a lot of great anti Lemun Russ units out there that are not popular in tournaments. What is popular is mechanized melta guns which Vendettas, Chimera,and Melta vets are excellent at killing. Rhinos with melta guns just isn't going to make it past 6 mechanized melta gun vets, and if a Rhino goes pop the squad inside will eat battlecannon.

It's a Viable list against most armies, with only a few being a no hope match up. Sure some things will tear it to shreds like dark eldar raider spam, but other lists would cringe at the idea of 9 LRBT such as BA jump spam.

BA jump spam won't be cringing if they have the common sense to not deep strike.

Space marine players usually take three squads of one land speeders.

I ran a jump spam for ard boys and did very well. Battlecannons make me cringe. 72" range pie that ignores 3+ armor and FNP. I'm not afraid of mystics. The only time I would ever deep strike is in dawn of war, and even then it's not hard to stay out of range of mystics with decent of angels.

I saw a lot of Space Marine players, and didn't see a single MM land speeder. They are becoming a rare sight as land speeder typhoons have become far more popular than regular MM land speeders.

@Darkhound: I am familiar with Armored Battlegroup, but there was also a chapter approved article called Armored Company. It was originally printed in WD294 I believe.

augustus5 wrote:@Darkhound: I am familiar with Armored Battlegroup, but there was also a chapter approved article called Armored Company. It was originally printed in WD294 I believe.

This man speaks the truth.