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I'm looking at including a squadron of 3 Armoured Sentinels with lascannons in my 1500pt Vostroyan Vet list.
As it is each sentinel would cost 75pts, leaving it at 225pts for the 3 vehichle squadron. I am also considering giving them hunter killer missiles, as well as possibly replacing one of the lascannons with a plasma cannon.

My questions on this are:
-Getting together $120 AUS, doubt that will be sorted out here.

-Can they be relied upon to act out a dependable anti-vehichle role?

-Is using them against infantry (due to their AV12 and Strength 6 attack) a viable tactic? I'm not suggesting to throw them into combat with Terminators or Tyranid creatures, but surely the can manage to hold thier own against a single Tactical squad or a small mob of orks?

-How do other dakkaites use their sentinels? What do you equip them with ect?

-In 1500pts I already have 2 Leman Russ's (1 Battlecannon, the other is an Eradicator), and a Vendetta, which I have previously relied on for Anti-Vehichle roles. There would be room for only 4 Veteran squads in Carapace armed with heavy bolters if the sentinels were taken, is there something else that I should be looking to include first?

Here's my problem with Armored Sentinels with anti-tank weapons: they can't perform the same role as Scout Sentinels. Scout Sentinels outflank, and hitting rear armor makes up for their inaccuracy and relatively low firepower. Armored Sentinels don't have that luxury, but retain the inaccuracy and low firepower. If you must use them for anti-tank, Lascannons are the best option as you'll be hitting front armor; however it makes it harder for them to pay for themselves. Keeping them cheap and in an anti-infantry role allows them to pay for themselves more easily (2 Multilasers and a Plasma Cannon are only 185 points). As far as close combat goes, yes they can screen an objective and defend it fairly well for several turns so long as the enemy isn't packing specialised weapons. They won't win the combat, but they'll slow them down.

For your list: you do need anti-tank, but like I said before Armored Sentinels aren't the way to get it. For half the price you can get another Vendetta which is better in every way (on paper). You could get a Medusa, or a Basalisk, or a Manticore. You could get a Leman Russ Exterminator. There are many more cost effective options. Also, you need Chimeras and you need to drop Carapace Armor and pick up special weapons for those Vets.

I want to like sentinels, but there are just SO many other better FA options for IG. Scout sentinels are the way to go if you do take them though. Mobility is the name of the game.

I also want to have lots of plasma cannon sentinels , its not that they are overcosting in pts ,
its just they are competing in FA slot with valkyries and vendettas...

Thats abit harsh on the poor old Iron Chicken me thinks

At 1500pts I run with 4 of them in squads of two, armed with the Auto-cannon and a Hunter-Killer each (70pts each at that load out). This load out seems to me agood multi-role unit

I use them to escort the Russes and act as mobile cover, or to add heavy weapons fire support to the Chimera squads, or to act as transport and light tank hunters, or to add VoF when supporting the Hydra. Use them in a guarding formation and they can act as reasonable anti-outflanker units.
With their AV12 front armour thay can also act as line holders and even line brakers while being supported with Chimeras or Russes.

Not sure why the poor old girl gets such a bashing on here, I've love the Sentlinel ever since i started to play back in 2nd edition.

personally i think regular sentinals with auto cannons would do the job better for half the cost at 120 points. and given what they do/come from you couls leave the basic guns and get 9 str 6 for 105.

but imho the autocannon upgrade is required on outflankers because that gives them the ability to hit the enemy even in dawn of war if they come on the wrong side.

Ribon Fox wrote:Not sure why the poor old girl gets such a bashing on here, I've love the Sentlinel ever since i started to play back in 2nd edition.

No, no, they are definitely viable. I just disagree with using Armored Sentinels in an anti-tank role. Like Lixulana said, Scouts are vastly cheaper and more effective at anti-tank.

I think your strategy for them is a good one, but your list sounds like it isn't desperately lacking anti-tank. EF's is, however, and even you must admit that Armored Sentinels are lacking as far as dedicated anti-tank is concerned. Otherwise Sentinels are awesome armor saturation, mobile cover, and do have great firepower if you consider it secondary.

I actually run that exact unit in my IG list and I think it does the job well. 3 moblie lascannons is nothing to sneeze at and while they may not be the most accurate shots, they at least command respect from your opponent. If your opponent is running an army with a single armor value he is going to devote a lot of time trying to kill them. They also give MC armies fits because we can start popping them quickly and generally staying out of range.

I've experimented with them as AutoCannons but the loss in punch is just too much to give up on, even if you do get 2 shots. They only army I suggest the AC against are the Orks where the 7 str and 2 shots at AP 4 will go a long way in killing more of the hoard.

Ribon Fox wrote:Thats abit harsh on the poor old Iron Chicken me thinks

At 1500pts I run with 4 of them in squads of two, armed with the Auto-cannon and a Hunter-Killer each (70pts each at that load out). This load out seems to me agood multi-role unit

I use them to escort the Russes and act as mobile cover, or to add heavy weapons fire support to the Chimera squads, or to act as transport and light tank hunters, or to add VoF when supporting the Hydra. Use them in a guarding formation and they can act as reasonable anti-outflanker units.
With their AV12 front armour thay can also act as line holders and even line brakers while being supported with Chimeras or Russes.

Not sure why the poor old girl gets such a bashing on here, I've love the Sentlinel ever since i started to play back in 2nd edition.

Hey, I've got 9 of them; I want them to be as effective as the next guy.

And it's not really that they're not good. I can just either get 9 multilaser shots for 105 points, or I can have all of the awesomeness that is a hellhound for 25 more. I realize that you can give them weapons other than multilasers, but I think that's just proving my point.

3 Armored Sentinels with lascannons are 210. One vendetta is 130. Vendetta is twinlinked, and while you might argue that the Sentinels are slightly more survivable, I don't feel they're 80 points more survivable. The vendetta can outlfank also, which is the biggest advantage of the scout sentinels. There's really just not much place for them anymore.

I lean-on 3 sentinals light armor with AC and krack missile. Hop-in with an outflank/scout and pop some targets of opportunity (armor) and then general harassment and support as the non-deep striking units come online. I like the armored lascanon or plasma idea but as stated above, the gunships and hellhounds really compete with these so they have to be competitive or the points go to other choice.

I try to keep these guys near scoring units at an objective because they are the only thing with a vehicle statline that can go into melee. It can tie-up a squad or add extra punch in the melee rather than sit there and watch so this is a secondary niche for them.

You can argue that and that arguement will and does carry quite alot of weight, but were as the Vendetta is cheeper by 80pts the three Sentinel are three times as many units thus giving them a surviabilaty factor of up to four times the Vendetta. Don't get me wrong the big V has more and better guns but once downed its now nothing more than a flamming wreck.
True the Outflanking is really useful but what shrwed IG player dosn't take an OoF and at lest one hydra in their force?

A. Sentinels have 2 roles:

1) Toting Plasma Cannons. They are one of the few ways to get Plasma Canons and a Squad of 3 is 35 points more than the cost of a bare executioner(therefore not as good of a choice). But is you are already fielding all 3 heavy support choices.

2) Keep them cheap and use them to bully squads that cannot hurt them. leave them with the multilaser and move in to assault week troop squads of sniper squads. those squads will likely not be able to hurt them in CC and therefore you use your 55 points to tie up however many points of enemy squad for the rest of the game.

The veterans mounted in the Vendetta have flamers and meltas, as well as a demo-pack for both last ditch efforts and sheer A-Team dramatic feel they give off. Some of my opponents have a nasty habit of squatting in the nearest available two-story building, so the det packs have already paid for themselves. The Vendetta outflanks and tries to get in whatever side/rear armour shots are possible. It works, and I have gotten penetrating hits almost everytime. But the damage results have been just horrible. 1's and 2's mostly.

Autocannons are sounding very popular, would a more viable option be 2 autocannons and a plasma cannon? Or should I take all autocannon and skip the single plasma? (or just two Sentinels with autocannons, which may allow me to fit in a Chimera?)

i prefer scout sentinels with the ability to outflank, so you get three lascannons and three hunter-killers coming in your opponents rear field.

sure they're open-topped, thogh onCe they fire, they already did their job.

DarkHound wrote:Here's my problem with Armored Sentinels with anti-tank weapons: they can't perform the same role as Scout Sentinels. Scout Sentinels outflank, and hitting rear armor makes up for their inaccuracy and relatively low firepower.

This.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I'm looking at including a squadron of 3 Armoured Sentinels with lascannons... 225pts for the 3 vehichle squadron.

So you're going to spend 225 points for just three lascannons? In a vehicle squadron? Really?

I can hardly think of a worse way to include 3 lascannons in your list.

Emperors Faithful wrote:-Can they be relied upon to act out a dependable anti-vehichle role?

Three lascannons will do okay, I suppose, but they don't benefit from orders. Furthermore, with those same number of points you could get much more dependable anti-vehicle

Emperors Faithful wrote:-Is using them against infantry (due to their AV12 and Strength 6 attack) a viable tactic?

So, I used to use sentinels for this purpose to great personal glee and satisfaction. The problem, though, is that it's only good if your opponent doesn't expect it. Seasoned players will see this coming from a mile away and put meltaguns and powerfists in close range.

So, I finally built the sentinel that came with the battleforce. I built it armoured, and I've fielded it with a plasma cannon for 5 battles with my gunline. I wanted the plasma, having only sponsons at higher point levels.

So far, it hasn't been spectacular (it's not winning battles for me or anything), but it does bite off chunks of smurf at times. It's a little bit overkill at anything less than power armour, but overkill is what we're all about. I've found it's mobility useful for getting at the innards of transports I have burst with other weapons. There it finds a nice meal.

Just as importantly, it's been way down on the target priority list for my opponents, who are worried about 2-3 pie plates and scoring chimeras. I think it's been around at the end of more games than not.

For the record, the opponents I've played with it (orks and BA), had a powerfist/klaw in many/most squads, and didn't go near it with squads that didn't. Once I charged it into a combat that was underway, but it was against that crazy BA dude with the wings and S10 attacks and I just wanted him to be tied up for a turn longer (he had almost eaten through the commiblob - 3 to 4 turn tarpit ).

In short, I'm liking it, and will probably increase the squad to 2, at least for 1500+. But then I run a gunline, and I think that sents in general complement a gunline more than they do a mech army. Mech can bring alot of mobile firepower without sents.

I used to run lascannon equipped Sentinels (both types) and never had any luck with them at all. With Lascannons (or Missile Launchers or Plasma Cannons), even on scout chassis, just too expensive for 3 BS3 shots. There are many far more cost-effective ways to bring firepower to the table.

As for melee, I find they're totally ineffective. Armored Sentinels dont have the mobility to get into position for an effective tarpit assault. Outflanking scout sentinels have the mobility but are far too fragile and will die even to tactial marines. And with a paltry initiative, number of attacks, and no power weapon effect, they're not exactly going to be winning any melee fights.

Some people advocate using Scout Sentinels as sentinel bombs, basically hoping that the open top +1 to the damage chart will cause an explosion and do lots of damage to the tightly packed melee opponents. This almost never works out in practice. MEQs will generally take few or no casualties from a S3 explosion. While the stuff that is fragile enough to actually take a significant amount of damage is much more effectively killed by spending the points on other things.

Really, I like Sentinels thematically... but I've got to be realistic. They C or B list units at best. It's your army though.

To be fair, I guess I should mention that it's not uncommon to find a Scout Sentinel in my lists. But that's usually to fill up a small odd number of points left over once I've drawn up the rest of the list. The 35-60 point range doesnt have a ton of stand-alone options for Guard.

Just a suggestion... but when you do get your Sentinels, I'd assemble them with the armor plating around the front/sides but don't put the roof on. That gives you the WYSIWYG option to use them as either scout or armored, depending on what kind of list you feel like drawing up. I think you'll also find that magnetizing the weapon mounts (and a mounting for a Hunter-Killer Missile) is a good idea since Sentinels seem to be one of those units where it's common to change weapon loadouts between games.

Anyway, it's your army, run what you like. But I think you're going to be disappointed by lascannon sentinels. I know most veteran players (in a tournament environment especially) are going to be inwardly thankful that you "wasted" those points.

Don't you think it's an effective way to get a plasma cannon in the the list tho? You can keep your tanks trim, your techpriests at base, and your infantry cool and still have plasma. Mobile, 36", blast -3" plasma. That's a whole different kind of bs3, the tasty pie kind...

murdog wrote:So far, it hasn't been spectacular (it's not winning battles for me or anything), but it does bite off chunks of smurf at times. It's a little bit overkill at anything less than power armour, but overkill is what we're all about. I've found it's mobility useful for getting at the innards of transports I have burst with other weapons. There it finds a nice meal.

Well, sentinels carry infantry heavy weapons. Infantry weapons tend to be decent at a narrow range of tasks (and are kind of expensive). As such, I predict that your "meh" feelings towards sentinels will continue until you start wanting to change around your list and it becomes harder and harder to keep justifying putting it in there.

... or turning it into a heavy flamer scout sentinel that pops out of outflanking and says oh-hai to densely packed infantry on an objective in a table corner...

Ivan wrote:I used to run lascannon equipped Sentinels

Most of the stories I hear about sentinels, including my own, start with this phrase.

It's not that sentinels themselves got any worse (an AV10 lascannon sentinel costs exactly the same for the same capabilities and the same gun), it's just that the rest of the world changed and left them behind.

Ailaros wrote:It's not that sentinels themselves got any worse (an AV10 lascannon sentinel costs exactly the same for the same capabilities and the same gun), it's just that the rest of the world changed and left them behind.

I concur. Walkers are no more mobiile on the battlefield than a standard trooper, in an edition where mobilty is king. Obviously if you plump for Scout Sentinels you get the benefit of outflanking, which at least grants them the bonus of targetting side/rear amour. Armoured are simply too static/expensive for the single gun that they bring to the table, and take up a FA slot that I would much rather use on a Vendetta/Hellhound squadron.

L. Wrex

Sentinels, and Armored Sentinels are both Properly Priced for Individual Models. The problem is that they come in Squadrons.

L. Wrex: Walkers are more mobile than infantry because they can move and Fire Heavy weapons(2 of them) and have the option to run. If you want to fire the weapons on your Vehicles, you are moving at the same speed as Walkers and infantry any ways; the only time standard vehicle are moving fairly fast is when they are giving a free pass to an enemy unit and Cruising along.

Scout Sentinels are really a 1-2 shot weapon that outflanks. This makes them even more maneuverable, but then they are also only 50 points for a Lascannon, and 40 for an autocannon. 40-50 points is not that bad for a late game entrant that moves onto the board and fires it's heavy weapon at tank rear armor. Once you add a second Scout Sentinel to the squadron you gain a 33% probability that bolter-fire hitting and glancing will destroy the sentinels(actually a 3.7037% chance to destroy each/shot). The great thing about Scout Sentinels is that all available weapons options are viable.

Murdog: As for armored Sentinels with Plasma Cannons; 1 is properly priced, you have a Move and Fire Plasma Cannon that cannot be destroyed by non-rending Str 6 and under(from the front). But, as soon s you squadron them with the second Plasma Cannon Armed A. Sentinel; their survivability drops significantly at all Str bands, thus making them a little overcosted. The worst part is that as soon as you grab up a third Plasma Cannon Armored Sentinel; You are then paying 35 extra Points for a unit that is far less survivable than a Bare executioner, and that executioner has an extra free heavy bolter. Your net results is same Mobility, plus an additional 2 front AV, plus a vehicle that cannot be destroyed by a Glancing blow, plus 3 HB shots while on the move, minus the 1 glancing hit will likely render the tank unable to shoot any weapons vs needing 3 shaken results to render the unit impotent.

I liked the models so when I started playing I got carried away and bought another 3 in addition to one I already had.

In the last two 1500pt games I played I ran two sct with AC and two armored with PC.

In the first game my opponent priority targetted the armored sents and killed them with his termies so they didn't really get a fair testing, however because he was scarred of them it did mean he dumped his termies out earlier than he might have. The sct turned up late by which time the only vehicle left was a LR so all they did was add some shots against his marines guarding his objective.

Second game the arm sents tied up some necron warriors in CC and sct didn't do much at all.

In my new list i've controversially, dropped the sct sents and i'm runnig the two arm sent individually, i'm going to use them to support my 20 man pw blob. Not tried it so don't know if will work. I'm planning to bring back the sct when I do a Al'rahem & Astropath infantry heavy list, thought the mobile hvy weapons might do well in a supporting role.

I do wish that sentinels were better, either adding an attack in CC (there is a chainsaw in the kit at least make it a buyable option to increase the attacks), making them faster or by adding another hvy weapon. It seems that every other sides walkers get either additional hvy weapons or kick butt in cc, so why not the humble sentinel.

The Chainsaw is for 1 of 2(3) uses:

1(2): it represents the scouts move through cover ability and in earlier editions was the "rough terrain modifications"

3: chopping off the CCW arm of an AOBR Nob and giving him both Power claw and Cybork body (this is what both of my current ones went to, and my Chainsaw from the end of 3rd/beginning of 4th went to my SM jump pack captain as i bionic leg after some chopping, looks real good still).

Tx for the solid analysis, Kel. Alot of us have them and want to use them. Can you explain to me a little more how the squadrons make them less survivable at all strength bands? I don't have the rulebook on me and anyways I failed statistics twice...

All was probably the wrong word to use, just at 6+ well from the front anyway, side and rear shots suffer from nearly the same deficiencies as Scouts(but lacking the open topped issue).

The problem with squadroning light vehicles is that you make penetrating hit 50% likely to destroy any given vehicle in the squadron, and add the possibility of a glancing hit destroying the vehicle.

I think it's worth noting that squadrons of two armored sentinels have some survivability advantages that may partially make up for their survivability disadvantages that have been mentioned:

1.) Cover: as long as half the squadron (1 sentinel) is in cover, the whole squadron gives cover, so if cover is sparse, it can still be relatively easy to get the squadron a save.

2.) Armor facing: When firing at vehicle squadrons with different armor values facing the firer, you use the armor value of the closest model to the firer. You can arrange the sentinels at an angle so that more the closest armor to major threats is always 12. The downside is that the broader you spread your radius of armor 12, the less the sentinel's weapon arcs overlap.

3.) Damage assignment flexibility: When a squadron takes a single penetrating or glancing hit (not that uncommon with AV 12), but multiple single hits in a turn, you can keep putting it on the same sentinel, so a crew shaken result can be put on a sentinel that already lost its gun, letting the good sentinel(s) in the squadron keep firing.

The survivability disadvantage comes from the fact that immobilizations counts as destroyed invehicle squadrons. Yes, there are some tricky things you can do, as biophysical notes, but most of the time squadding is just a drawback.

I also would LOVE it if they put power-lifter sentinels (or something equivalent) back in the game. I'd seriously pay a 40 points upgrade to field a sentinel with even a single DCCW.

And yeah, sentinels can shoot a heavy weapon while moving, but they shoot an INFANTRY heavy weapon on the move. This is part of what I meant by "the world passing them by". 5th ed categorically made infantry heavy weapons worse. Whether it's infantry moving up to twice as fast, or outflanking, or everything and a half getting 4+ cover, a single lascannon or a single plasma cannon just doesn't do the damage it once did.

Yes, outflanking them yourself alleviates some of these problems (and so makes it so that scout sentinels are still sort of worth taking), but to assume that they're magically going to come in turn 3 every game from the right side of the board and hit vehicle armor exactly in the rear is cherry picking circumstance. Really, it's the outflanking, not the weapon loadout, that is valuable here.

Scout Sentinels do sound like a one trick pony though, as after that Outflank (even if they are sucessful) they are going to be torn apart by anything else nearby, even space marines.

Is that worse than having your armored sentinels ignored because they don't pose a big enough threat?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Scout Sentinels do sound like a one trick pony though, as after that Outflank (even if they are sucessful) they are going to be torn apart by anything else nearby, even space marines.

Table edges are a lot of area to move on from, and Sentinels are not armed with meltas. Put your guys in a positions where they won't have this problem, or you won't care because their job is done.