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So I have been playing around with putting termis in a LR and all that when I started to think of all the other things I could put in there instead of termies. I look threw my book and come across possessed marines which I honestly have never looked at as they never really filled any role i needed till now.

They do cost quite a bit but they are fearless as well as str 5 with a 5++. I think that there demonkin which is random and also ups there points is what scares people away from them. Since you roll for it AFTER you deploy. But looking at them in a LR really only the scout will go totally to waste if that roll is made. The fleet being 2nd worse. But not totally useless. If they loose there transport early or once they are dumped out and there next target is just a fleet away. Everything else seems great. All power weapons or rending or feel no pain. All very useful.

There str 5 is very nice. Being able to threaten any tank outside of other LR and monoliths. With Rending they then can threaten them.

So does anyone have any exp with using them in LR and just in general? They have a heft price tag but they seem to be pretty strong in CC

Is the Raider a dedicated transport? If they get scout the LR gets a scout move.

From what I hear, Possessed are decentish if you get the right rolls, but too random for tournament play. The other big turnoff is the price. Way too expensive, when terminators or Berzerkers do a much better job. (Berzerkes get S5 from Furious Charge out of a Raider too.)

Probably a fun, unique unit to play though.

No sadly they cant take a LR as a dedicated LR. That was my thought to at first. A scouting LR would be pretty epic and be a brutal 1st turn if you do get to go first.

I play tweentch so like to stick to fluff and useing zerkers or anything like that isnt an option.

read these words carefully: your opponent, nomatter how skilled, will NEVER expect 3 Chaos Spawn to be disgorged from a Land Raider or a Rhino. If you want laughs, do this.
As to the land raider question, you COULD take a Rhino as a dedicated Transport for less points AND you can use the scout move, but you lose the assault ramp. BUT you can easily exit using the Rhino as cover then pop smoke...

All comes down to personal preference.

EDIT: If you like t fluffy, have their transport daemonicaly possessed and you are all set!

Spawn, Obliterators and Lesser Daemons, although they are infantry, can never be transported.

I like my Possessed: they are the center of my army. Now they are certainly less than cost efficient and difficult to use, but they are fun and effective enough to warrant play. I really don't recommend you take a Landraider, as Scout is their strongest power if you can support it, and strong even if you can't. Without a dedicated transport you can't take advantage of it. The only time I'd take them in a Landraider is to guard Kharne or a Sorcerer, especially if they take Icon of Tzeentch.

I've run them out of a LR before, its a solid assault option. But they are fighting khorne berzerkers for those seats, so its not an easy choice. Deamonkin is as random as you'd expect, 3/3 games I've fielded possessed I've gotten basically useless results (ya scouts while in the LR was one of them) but I'm still waiting for that game power weps comes up.

With Kharn in the raider as well possessed marine's 5++ certainly can help when Kharn gets a little... overeager, and decides his friend's skulls are nicer than the enemies.

The reason I prefer khorne berzerkers out of the LR, even with Kharn in tow, is the consistency the power fist champion brings to the mix. Zerker champs have 4 PF attacks on the charge and can usually be counted on to kill a few enemies outright every assault, at a lower initiative too. Having one model at the lower initiative can be great for wound allocation prevention, or for finishing off a vehicle the zerkers immobilized at I5. Without the fist champ the possessed cannot counter certain enemies (like walkers) either.

Possessed can be fun option for friendly games though, and by all means have fun when you play the game!

My god. Errors galore and so much discussion about GW failure with unit design...
Please get things right people...it's bad enough GW screws those choices...

8 Possessed in a Rhino with or without an icon is as competitive/cost effective as it gets...otherwise, go for more CSM or cult units.

Possessed in Rhino is a much better option. Never factor that extra power into your list just consider it a bonus for running Possessed.

Anyway I wrote all about Possessed on my blog awhile back...

http://bloodofkittens.com/2009/11/17/40k-test-drive-possessed/

I started a discussion here written something as well titled something like: Possessed, The Cup Half Full.

There is plenty of resources about them out there.

At the end of the day, it's a functional unit. It's not cost efficient nor too flexible, but it's still beefy and can wreck faces when given the chance.

DarkHound wrote:Spawn, Obliterators and Lesser Daemons, although they are infantry, can never be transported.

Just Checked this, and there is nothing preventing you from having spawn in a rhino/LR. ^its actually Terminators, Obliterators and Summoned Daemons, or for the LR Obliterators and Daemons.

EDIT: In any case, just learned that it doesnt matter. Spawn = Beasts = Cavalary = Not Transportable

possessed...for 5 more points could have been terminators... who have power weapons and the improved resistance to small arms all the time, rather than just ocassionally.
AF

But Terminators take up more space, which means you can take less of them. You spend less to get less. On top of that, Power Weapons are really only useful against MEQs which aren't all of your match ups. I'd much rather have an extra point of strength and Fleet/FnP/Furious Charge against Orks or Tyranids.

feel no pain after a 3+ save is the same thing as taking a 2+ save. do the math.
power weapons will almost always be useful because almost every opponent has an armor save of some type.
sometimes it will be more useful and sometimes less but it will almost always have some benefit.
if you want an extra ponit of strength buy a power fist.
so I guess that leaves fleet. ok. got me.

....but maybe possessed are one of those pet *fun* units that no one wants to hear criticized.... if thats so please disregard anything I say about them
AF


but maybe possessed are

Why do people take Powerfists on their Sergeants instead of Power Weapons? It isn't because the weapon ignores armor, but instead because it increases his strength enough to damage vehicles. Ignoring armor is not valuable in small quantities, and that's all you can take Terminators in. Ignoring 5 and 6+ saves is not worth the amount of points you pay, and Terminators have too few attacks to be valuable against larger squads regardless. With those restrictions Terminators have a limited target list: 10 man or smaller MEQ and TEQ squads. The Possessed's increased strength, squad size, and additional power makes them more valuable against a wider range of targets. Even if the Possessed roll Power Weapons, they gain an extra attack from it, thus making even that roll more valuable against hordes than the Terminator's Power Weapons.

well I agree that terminators in a land raider dont make much sense bc you can only bring 5. thats why I deep strike them. In blocks of 10
AF

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No.

^What he said wrt AbaddonFidelis's last post.

Seriously, possessed are functional, but just pale in comparison to their last incarnation and to the other stuff GW gave lovin' to.

It doesn't make the possessed bad, it just makes them not as flashy as the other items, there is a small difference here.

Anyway, IMO, Land Raiders are a more questionable choice than possessed...but that's just me as I've been able to do rather well with possessed.

its too bad bc the models are sick.

Why is it too bad?
Possessed have so far rocked against GEQ armies and hold their own vs. MEQ armies.

Certainly they are not cost effective (but it's not as steep as some believe), but it's not like they aren't going to kill stuff too.
But I'm not gonna get into any more, it's a unit people love/hate/accept regardless of explanations.

I would just suggest to try them out and see if it's good or bad for you.

DarkHound wrote:Spawn, Obliterators and Lesser Daemons, although they are infantry, can never be transported.

I like my Possessed: they are the center of my army. Now they are certainly less than cost efficient and difficult to use, but they are fun and effective enough to warrant play. I really don't recommend you take a Landraider, as Scout is their strongest power if you can support it, and strong even if you can't. Without a dedicated transport you can't take advantage of it. The only time I'd take them in a Landraider is to guard Kharne or a Sorcerer, especially if they take Icon of Tzeentch.

Yeah! I used to rock a Nurgle lord w/ daemon weapon with Nurgle/Tzeentch possessed (however i was feeling on the day) in a raider. Good times! I've been thinking of breaking them out again for the shennanigans of it. IF you are trying to make a competitive list, i wouldn't recommend them. But honestly thats the only place i wouldn't recommend it. As long as the points you spend on them doesn't take away from the flexibility of your army, say removing some termicide squads for possessed probably isn't the best idea... but as long as you are happy with your MEQ/Tank/Horde/MC killing ability in your list, whack them in and see if you like them. You might be surprised!

AbaddonFidelis wrote:well I agree that terminators in a land raider dont make much sense bc you can only bring 5. thats why I deep strike them. In blocks of 10
AF

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...no.

NostrilOfTerror wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Spawn, Obliterators and Lesser Daemons, although they are infantry, can never be transported.

Just Checked this, and there is nothing preventing you from having spawn in a rhino/LR. ^its actually Terminators, Obliterators and Summoned Daemons, or for the LR Obliterators and Daemons.

EDIT: In any case, just learned that it doesnt matter. Spawn = Beasts = Cavalary = Not Transportable

Also, they're summoned daemons, which you just said yourself

Sanct
its too bad bc the possessed are a 2nd tier unit. its not that theyre bad per se. its that they could have been terminators for just 5 extra points. they can handle everything; meltas for vehicles, flamers for hordes, power weapons for meq. cant say enough good about them.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihallah
you know that chaos marines have icons right? you know what icons do right?
AF

Have you ever played on a board with 25% terrain? Have you ever played on a board with higher than that? Let me quote myself from the other thread on why Icons are irrelevant, and possibly detrimental.

DarkHound wrote:I don't know what kind of board you play on, but on my board and the boards at the local shop rarely have 15" clear of terrain. I think on average you'll have 12". So, with an 8" ball, you have 4" of scatter; you have a 55% chance not to hit terrain. What codex is better suited for deepstriking units than the CSM 'dex? None that I know of. Yet even in this codex, once you have a Rhino in that area your ability to Deepstrike is further restricted. The damned ball simply won't fit and you'll mishap even though you're using an Icon. I don't want to game with nearly a third of my allotted points tied behind my back.

You are overstating the effectiveness of Terminators. At a glance Terminators are fairly cost effective, sure, maybe more cost effective than Possessed. However, they their cost is inflated by the transport requirements. They also have to deal with the limitations of their squad size and their lack of Fearless makes that a huge liability. Making the squad bigger doesn't alleviate these problems, as I've outlined above.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:Sanct
its too bad bc the possessed are a 2nd tier unit. its not that theyre bad per se. its that they could have been terminators for just 5 extra points. they can handle everything; meltas for vehicles, flamers for hordes, power weapons for meq. cant say enough good about them.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Jihallah
you know that chaos marines have icons right? you know what icons do right?
AF

Please. Let us not throw around "tiers" for units in armies, when we don't know rules for armies.

------------------------------------------------

I find myself across the table from an opponent who uses a unit of possessed in a land raider from time to time. It isn't that big of a threat, though I fear it more than his daemon princes and terminators. Since terminators are either taking alot of points, when I can just throw my deathstar at them.

Or, they're deepstriking, to where I can prism blast 'em.

Maybe they're footslogging? Let's not go there!

They're powers all make them deadly though, scouts less so, but it is alright.

Rending helps pop transports or heavily armored units.

Feel no pain makes my council cry...

All of them have a use, though none are that over the top, and they're so random.

Are their powers good? Yes.

Are there better units to take? Yup.

Darkhound
Yes. I play on 6x4 boards. sometimes the cover is more than 25%. sometimes its less. so let me ask you a question. do you know what a chaos icon is? if so do you know what it does?

Yes not having fearless is a limitation. sometimes you have to make do with ld 10 and a ton of close combat power weapon attacks. the galaxy is a dangerous place what can I say.

idk why you think you have to buy these guys a land raider. they deep strike.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Inquisitor
Why do you think I dont know the rules? I agree with you there are better things for you to buy then possessed. Just like you said: not that big a threat.

Sometimes I dont understand..... sigh. :(
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Darkhound
maybe whats confusing you is difficult terrain. you dont mishap it when you deep strike on top of it. it just becomes dangerous and you roll a die for every guy who ends up on top of it. if you get a 1 he dies unless you make an invulnerable save. does that help?
AF

Icons help you not scatter, sure, but the ball is so large and the squad or Rhino with the Icon consumes even more space. You can land in difficult terrain and still mishap if, for instance, a Terminators base would go through the wall of a building. The model can't go through the wall, so the wall itself is impassable terrain. It is just too easy for to hit a wall or a model in a board with proper terrain. All it takes is 1 model in your 8" ball.

All these problems are just with landing the models, ignoring the fact that they're in perfect pie plate position unless you run them. Either way your opponent gets a turn to shoot at them for free. What you don't spend in a Landraider you lose in Terminators when they enter the board, but atleast when they're in a Landraider you have them every turn of the game. When they're Deepstriking you can't know when they'll show up.

Possessed are better close combat units than Terminators, largely because Terminators are so difficult to take. They require a huge investment in deployment, no matter how you take them.

The issue is, there are more cost effective options, but comparisons are hard to make.

Termies are very different than possessed in what they bring to the army.
Termies are primary Termicides...something possessed can't do.

The possessed niche (5/6 of the time) is being a counter attack unit. 5/6 of the powers help them in this regard. They have access to a rhino with adds armor saturation and another contesting/fast unit. In addition, they can be thrown away when you need to, unlike scoring units.

Else, I second DarkHound's post.

DarkHound

How do you figure the ball is too big? It's an 8" oval with a radius of 3" in one direction and 5" in the other. The icon has a range of 6." that gives you 3" of wiggle room front or back plus probably about 5" left or right. Besides that you get to place the final circle, and icons are so dirt cheap you can have one or two in every squad.

I really just dont understand where you're coming from. In an army with say 4 troop choices you have 4 potential drop zones each of which has a fair amount of leeway for putting down your terminators. Can you really not find a 5x8 oval of non-impassible non-building terrain on your boards?

Yes they're in pie plate formation. All troops are when they deep strike. Do you then not deep strike at all? Templates scatter alot of the time and the terminators (should) have mark of tzeentch 4++. They'll live. IMO youre taking a fear based approach to the situation.
AF


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sanct
there are more cost effective options. exactly. my whole point. Once youve identified the mission a unit needs to perform there is 1 and only 1 correct option to fill it; the 1 with the best capability for the fewest points. Possessed are not that unit.
AF

Termies are great for termiciding, otherwise, they are not cost effective themselves.

ICON of Tzeentch is not cheap, though it's ok in cost with a 10 man squad of termies, it's not a flexible squad number. In addition, it's not cheap and not really more durable than if you were to use say cover.

As for your reply me of possessed, if you look at the units for solely counter attack, it's a toss up between possessed and lesser daemons.
LD's are more numerous while Possessed bring more quality to the mix.

Please don't bring up CSM/Zerkers as their roles are not exclusive to counter-attack.
Make no mistake, I don't like possessed either, but you can not write them off as unable to perform, because that is false. They have won me games and perform consistantly (wierd right) in my trials with crap legion.

Sanct my point isn't that they're unable to perform my point is that for about the same number of points there are other units that perform better. That's what makes them a bad unit.
AF