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I am new to warhammer and was looking at my codex and wondering why no one ever has these guys in their list...they are pretty expensive...not worth the points?

1st and biggest problem is that they are Heavy Support. Killer Kans, Battlewagons, Deffdread hell everything on that list is better than them
2nd What makes everything on their list better than them is the weapon they carry. 1 Shot (I mis-typed gak instead of shot here though perhaps it was fitting) on a BS 2 model that costs around 30 points (calculating the cost of the painboy in here) 1 Shot!! Compare the Snazzgun to say Deffguns.. Half the range, Str 5 instead of 7, 1 shot instead of D3 Lootaz cost 15 points and are elites - Flash gitz are HS and cost 25 points. Compare it to a Big Shoota: again less range, both Str 5, 1 shot instead of 3! Big Shootas cost 5 points and can be carried by Kans, Battlewagons Trukks Boys etc. The only thing that is better is the Snazzgun's AP ,however you only find out what your AP is AFTER you choose your target which is full of fail.
3rd More Dakka (mandatory upgrade) plus the Painboy takes their cost to unidenticaly geared Nob squad level and they dont have half the options, punch or survivability of real Nobz

After having said all that if you are interested read this http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/orks/163924-youre-better-off-grots-flash-gitz-reconsidered.html#post1422116 . It is possible to build a decent unit with them Badrukk is the key here, and strangely enough they make a good retinue for a Warphead but competetively speaking it's just not worth the cost and Heavy Support slot.

Yeah what sn9zcumb3r said. The main problem with FG is that to make them anywhere near efficient, you have to up their points by a considerable amount. There are 3 weapon upgrades, one of which you should not leave home without, and even with that one upgrade, you're looking at 30 points per model. The vital upgrade makes their weapons Assault 2, which slightly counteracts the FG's BS2, but even then, you're putting so much ranged firepower into a unit which is only BS2. Also, their weapons can be unpredictable. The Ap of their weapons is randomly determined each time you fire, which means that you could have spend a few hundreds of points on a unit which only fires Ap6 or 5 during the game. I think that the only reason you should take them would be if it was Apoc, where points value dosen't really matter.

FG lose because they want to do everything well. Their nobs with guns, which means their good at ranged and good at assault, and you pay through the nose for that.
As others have mentioned, heavy support choices are really good for orks. The only place I can see for them would be an all footslogger army

It's a pity, because FG should be a great unit based on fluff, etc., and they would serve a good role if they had been done well. But, as touched upon many times, they are far too expensive for what they do. Why would you ever want FG with Lootas in the codex (even if they are in different slots)? How does FG ever beat out a battlewagon, killa kan, or big guns as heavy support? They don't.

Gits would be workable if they weren't nobs and thus cost the same as a Loota or Burna boy, lost the "gets hot" crap in favor of a twin-linking option for higher hit rates (S6, AP d6, Assault 2, twin-linked... not bad), and had access to a transport vehicle... That's a potentially useful unit. As is... nah.

I use them in my Foot army cause i use a house rule sometimes that anything with an AV value cant be used. I like the fluff and the story of characters fighting instead of "Metal Boxes".
Main reason I used them was cause i maxed the number of lootas I could use (e.g. 15x3) and i had spare points and they can have low ap weapons (something orks rarely get).

I agree with the statment their useless/overpriced/heavy support in 5th "Metal Boxes" meta.

Flash Gitz were all set to be the Dev squad of the Ork Codex, I think. Then they wimped the hell out.

A long fang with a missile launcher is 5 less than a flash git. Both have the option to get +1 STR and -1 AP for the same points cost (Gets hot is largely irrelevant on a 4+ FNP 2 wound unit). For 5 points, going from 3+ 1 wound to 4+ 2 wounds would be very good. So how do the weapons compare?

Well, Flash Gitz are assault and have 24" range versus 48". This makes their usage slightly different, and why do you want your fire support in their face anyway? You can throw them in a transport and have them drive around being tough to assault though, so overall we'll call that a net wash.

Now the hits. 1 shot BS4 versus 2 shots BS2 is the same average number of hits. Wash.

Now the damage. First, STR 8 or 9 kills armor dead. STR 5/6 does nothing to armor. So Gitz can't take down armor AT ALL (a giant hole in the ork army, frankly).

So we're on to MEQ. For cheap gak like Fire Warriors, Boyz, etc, Gitz and LFs are equal.

For MEQ, LFs ALWAYS ignore armor, and ALWAYS wound on a 2+. Without the 10 point upgrade. Flash Gits wound on a 3+ without the upgrade, and ignore armor 50% of the time. With the 10 point upgrade, LFs ignore Termy armor. FG ignores Termy Armor, again (with the upgrade) 50% of the time. So against MEQ and termies, 50% of the time, FGs are as good as Long Fangs. The rest of the time, they're hysterically worse.

Monsterous Creatures? Forget it. Long Fangs are wounding on a 2+, 3+ SOMETIMES, and still ignoring armor, without the 10 point upgrade. FGs are still left with 4+ and 5+ to wound WITH the upgrade.

Its worse against every category of opponent than a LF with a Las cannon, for 5 points more, and in most situations, they're worse than a LF with a Missile Launcher, for 15 points more.

Summary: In the next codex, make them Strength 8, upgrade to Strength 9, and give them a squad leader that lets them reroll their AP result as well as grant FNP. Sadly, I don't think you'd even need to change the point cost.

It is a fluffy unit but not horribly bad. They're still nobs so they can hold their own in an assault. It's the combined shoot/assault that makes them playable.

Much like Coptas... they're best when not run at full numbers. Big numbers makes them a big target which gets them shot at. Use them to take out elite squads. They can even hold their own in CC most of the time (Ignoring the new BA codex).

Statistically, points for points, they could 50/50 (50% of the time one unit would be wiped) it with Wyches or '5th PDF' Death Co. And that's without shooting.

My biggest problem is there is no way to get a power claw in there without attaching some even more expensive hq. I'll get around to building and testing them one day though

.... Why would you need a PK in a gitz mob?
Its like putting a giant "Shoot me" sign on them.
That said, for the life of me I don't understand how Nob Painboyz can get Eavy armor.... but a Painboy in a Gitz squad specifically loses his.

the_ferrett wrote:That said, for the life of me I don't understand how Nob Painboyz can get Eavy armor.... but a Painboy in a Gitz squad specifically loses his.

That's really debatable, but I don't think Nob Painboyz can get 'Eavy Armor. They are not Nobs, and receiving the upgrade requires that they are. If you say that Painboyz can take 'Eavy Armor, they must also be allowed to take Boss Poles and carry the Waaagh Banner.

the_ferrett wrote:Much like Coptas... they're best when not run at full numbers. Big numbers makes them a big target which gets them shot at. Use them to take out elite squads. They can even hold their own in CC most of the time (Ignoring the new BA codex).

Statistically, points for points, they could 50/50 (50% of the time one unit would be wiped) it with Wyches or '5th PDF' Death Co. And that's without shooting.

You mean they can 50/50 with a unit that was designed for 3rd edition (where you could kill your way to safety in close combat by murdering every model in base to base (wyches were I6, and thus very capable of this) and a unit that is consensus not even close to worth their points (or are we talking old PDF angels, where Death Company was free? Because earning your points back versus a free unit... huh)?

Great. How do they do against a Grey Hunter Squad with attached PF Wolf Guard, Mark of the Wulfen, and Power Weapon? Or BA Assault Marines? Or anything else that they're likely to be slamming into in close combat, really? Termagaunts or a Trygon maybe? (cue insane laughter)

Their gun is terrible (I was not joking, at their points cost it's balanced as a missile launcher with upgrade to las cannon). Their melee is insufficient to win against anything that's really a close combat specialist in 5th edition. It's about sufficient for them to go toe-to-toe with Tac Marines if Sarge forgot his Power Fist, in point of fact (Tac Marines not usually considered the be all and end all of close combat) (Sarge kills 1 per round, so he adds some mess to the mix).

They're. Not. Viable.

There are arguments for taking them. They are as follows:

1) You like the fluff and it's a friendly game. Fine. Have fun! They are a fun unit.
2) You were bet $20 you could win with a squad of them in your army. Take the bet, then find a Necron player. Free money!
3) You have a squad of them and don't feel like counts-as them into Lootas, and don't have money to buy new models.

It would not take much to make flash gitz worth taking but till they get given Twin linking they're not worth having.