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Ive installed it, I've got it open, had a look, stuffed around with the mathhammer, but I cant imagine how you could play a game other than mathhammering and applying the results to each and every single model in a squad.

Is there a specific way you can play it? or is it for demonstrative purposes only?

I just wanna play a game against my self, and this whole click and drag every model in my army is a bit ludicrous.

Well, you can select multiple models and drag them all together, but yes, that is how Vassal works. It isn't any different from 40k in real life, so I'm not sure what part you think is ludicrous. All in all, Vassal takes about 30% longer to play because you have to type (unless you get Skype or Ventrillo), but playing by yourself to test lists is much faster than breaking out the models.

Its just like a normal game, you have dice, a board (many different ones), all models, rulers and a lobby for opponents (I guess you dont have that in real life, I dont)

Jaon wrote:Is there a specific way you can play it? or is it for demonstrative purposes only?

Your post makes no sense at all.

You know how to play warhammer, don't you? Y'know, rolling dice, and then 'math hammering the results and applying them to each and every model in a squad?'

Bookwrack wrote:

Jaon wrote:Is there a specific way you can play it? or is it for demonstrative purposes only?

Your post makes no sense at all.

You know how to play warhammer, don't you? Y'know, rolling dice, and then 'math hammering the results and applying them to each and every model in a squad?'

Haha, Joan got owned.


@Joan: Look at the keyboard controls available. You can select multiple units, change their facing, and move them at precise 1" or 6" intervals without ever having to use the mouse. Hundreds of games of Vassal happen every day, it's far from ludicrous. Here is a selection of a few:

Control + Number Key

Generally used to add or remove wargear and upgrades. Also used to place the range circle on the Scatter Die.

Control + [ and Control + ]
Non-Vehicles: Cycle left and right weapon. Where only one weapon option is available, it will generally be Control + ]
Vehicles (Old): Varies. Generally used to change a weapon.
Vehicles (Updated): Enables/removes the left and right sponson/mounted weapon.
Note: The [ and ] keys are the ones just to the right of the “P” button on UK and US keyboards.

Control + =
Non-Vehicles: Rarely used. Often used for a miscellaneous or other upgrade.
Vehicles (Old): Varies. Generally used to change/remove a weapon.
Vehicles (Updated): Enables/removes the turret or centrally mounted weapon.

Control + -
Infantry: Rarely used. Often used for a miscellaneous or other upgrade.
Vehicles (Old): Varies. Generally used to change/remove a weapon.
Vehicles (Updated): Enables/removes a hull mounted weapon. On vehicles without a hull mounted weapon, this instead cycles though the sponson weapon options.

Control + Shift + -
Vehicles (Updated): Used to cycle through the sponson options for vehicles with a hull mounted weapon.

Alt + Number Key
Non-Vehicles: Enable/Disable range circles.

Control + Right/Left Arrow key
Rotate the model by 22.5° clockwise or counter-clockwise.

Control + Up/Down Arrow key
Move the model one inch forward or backwards.

Shift + Up/Down Arrow key
Move the model six inches forward or backwards.

Control + K:
Non-vehicle: Kill it!
Vehicle: Make it assplode!

Control + W:
Non-vehicle: Open the wound note dialogue. Good for tracking wounds left.
Vehicle: Wreck it.

Alt + S:
Vehicles: Cycle through the speed markers.

Alt + Z:
Vehicles: Mark as immobilized.

Control + I:
Open the note dialogue. Handy for marking things that the Vassal40k module doesn’t.

And now for two generally un-labeled commands:
Control + X:
Rotate at Random

Control + Z:
Randomize head and/or body.

I have a germn keyboard could you tell me where you find you [ ] and = ? on a german keyboard there are at 8 9 and 0 but not on Anglosaxon ones.

Dark Scipio wrote:I have a germn keyboard could you tell me where you find you [ ] and = ? on a german keyboard there are at 8 9 and 0 but not on Anglosaxon ones.

I think AltGr + 8 and 9 might work for Control and [ ] but I am not 100% sure. :(

You could always tell your PC to think you are using an English Keyboard when playing vassal.

Yes, but first that Z/Y swap is most annoying, and its too much work for me. I think its easier to just get to know the alternative three shortcuts.

Most of the replies were totally off my meaning. Firstly I know how to play 40k, secondly Terminus, thank you for purposely changing my name to Joan after my sig specifically asks you not to.

My entire first post was trying to get the point across that I dont know how to use vassal. I open it, theres army builer in player 1, the player I chose, I say "Well, thats where I start 40k in real life!" So I open it...and theres no squads...

You have to click and drag each and every single model from the tab on the left into your army screen. Theres no grouping option or squadding I can see.

So, after spending what must have been many decades trying to build a blob squad in this manner I gave up on that. So I went to "BOARD"

First of all, theres this massive random grey area in the middle of the map. I pretended it wasnt there.

"Ok ....so wheres the terrain?" I think. I dont worry about that, I was sure id find an option for terrain later. So I click and drag maybe 5 guardsmen, one with a plasma gun, into a little bunch. Then I put some other guardsmen at the top. "Ooh! a firing button!" I then realize, just like units, the firing button at the top of the board is some kind of click and drag thing...that you can place on the map. Very odd indeed.

It's all looking pretty dull at this point, I have no clue how to work anything, NO IDEA how anyone could possibley construct an organised army on it, No idea how to somehow start a chain of events that will lead to 2 armies in an un-editable environment versing (for lack of a better word) each other.

As I could see it, theres no way of measuring, no way of having grouped or squadded units, I could just drag the units all around the board.

Some may suggest go play a game with someone else, but I'd just be holding them up. If anyone can show me a beginners tutorial, that would be great.

Made for the old module, but good nonetheless.

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=93588.0

It's hard to start, but once you get the hang of it, it'll become second nature.

Is the Player's Guide no longer included with the module, because that would clear up everything for you. At least in earlier versions, it was right there in the Vassal40K folder.

What you don't seem to understand is that Vassal is a generic wargaming engine to allow you to play a variety of table top wargames, so there's no way you're going to get the 'one-click-game-go!' experience you're looking for, unless someone volunteered a truly ridiculous amount of time custom designing the 40K module. And then a codex would update, and they'd have do it all over again for that army.

So yes, just like real 40K, you assemble your army one model at a time, grouping them into units. Once you've got some experience with the program, it doesn't take long.

You should pay more attention to the menu bars at the top. You seem to have found the models button, did you not think to investigate the 'dice' 'to-hit/wound' 'saves 'to-hit/penetrate' and all the rest up there?

Did you look around the folders and directories at all? Not only might you have found the Player's Guide, but the pre-made maps too. You do have to use 'load continuation' to load them up, which isn't very intuitive, but they should at least be there. If you choose 'create offline game' you're given a list of generic terrain types for the table - and the last entry in the 'models' drop down is 'terrain.'

Bookwrack wrote:but they should at least be there.

Is that where they've gone? I went from 4.7 to 5.3 and have been making the maps for Sanct and my games by hand. Well, that makes things much easier.

There are some Hyper detailed maps in ,,New Games" since 5.4 and if you want to load other permade maps with palced terrain, you must ,,Load" a game, because that maps are just save games.

Jaon:

I takes about 5 minutes to gather your army this way (you can clone model, and group of models too), it feels longer than in reality, but in fact it isnt (at least I need much more time to pick my real models from the basement, put them in a case and then back off).

As said, there are premade maps or you can make your own by placing the Terrain models. If you want to select terrain once it is placed you must Shift (or Ctrl?) Left click to select it (this way you can easier game later on).

Ok thanks for the help guys, Ive still got some major problems tho.


I assumed that the game had some way of knowing how many points you had spent. For example, you in the army list menu choose all the units and upgrades for your army, or maybe create it in the army builder place, so when you play online, it was fair. Secondly, It seems to be quite sandbox, and I see no way of preventing cheating online, or moving 20 inches for that matter. All the math is done on your computer, I thought there would be a fire button, then choose your target, then it applies the mathhammered/random results. Nor do i know how to arm the sponsons of a land raider or turn vehicles, but I will.

And also, the new user guide is not included in version 5.4, when you select it from the menu it says visit the website, which I did, and the website was no help at all, I believe the link was broken.

Your correct in saying there's no way to prevent cheating; its true that if your opponent wants to move something 20" he can do so, but it'll be pretty obvious that he's cheated and he'll obviously be called upon it.

There's an 'Army List' tab where you write down your army list and the relevant points values. Again, if your not accurate with this expect to be called upon it.

Inputting a system like the one you described would be nigh on impossible considering the complexity inherent in 40k. Consider how many potential variables there are in, say, a 10-man tactical squad loadout and then apply those results not only across one codex but across all of them. All you need to do is make it clear what is shooting at what and use the supplied menu to create the results.

Vassal revolves more around players regulating themselves than any form of in-built limitations. It is pretty much an exact replica of a RL table-top game except on a 2D rather than a 3D plane, all it does is give you the tools; its up to the players themselves to regulate the ruleset/each other.

L. Wrex

Jaon wrote:Ok thanks for the help guys, Ive still got some major problems tho.


I assumed that the game had some way of knowing how many points you had spent. For example, you in the army list menu choose all the units and upgrades for your army, or maybe create it in the army builder place, so when you play online, it was fair. Secondly, It seems to be quite sandbox, and I see no way of preventing cheating online, or moving 20 inches for that matter. All the math is done on your computer, I thought there would be a fire button, then choose your target, then it applies the mathhammered/random results. Nor do i know how to arm the sponsons of a land raider or turn vehicles, but I will.

And also, the new user guide is not included in version 5.4, when you select it from the menu it says visit the website, which I did, and the website was no help at all, I believe the link was broken.

...just like in live action 40k eh?

^ is that another joke about it being exactly like real life? Because it isnt necessary if it is.

Here is a good tutorial I found online:
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=93588.0

Jaon wrote:Ok thanks for the help guys, Ive still got some major problems tho.
I assumed that the game had some way of knowing how many points you had spent. For example, you in the army list menu choose all the units and upgrades for your army, or maybe create it in the army builder place, so when you play online, it was fair.

Yes, much like in tabletop 40K, you either trust your opponent to bring the right amount of stuff, or ask him to provide you with an army list. You may notice the rightmost button is conveniently labeled Army Lists. You post your lists there, and anyone watching/playing the game can see them.

Secondly, It seems to be quite sandbox, and I see no way of preventing cheating online, or moving 20 inches for that matter.

Yes, much like in tabletop 40K, you can't prevent your opponent from cheating, but it is pretty obvious when he does. For example, selecting any model shows how far it has moved in increments of 1" and each action can be undone with a click of a button. This is the leftmost button of the interface, and looks like a U-turn arrow on its side.

All the math is done on your computer, I thought there would be a fire button, then choose your target, then it applies the mathhammered/random results.

Yes, much like in tabletop 40K, there is no computer that calculates everything for you. You communicate to your opponent (through the text box or skype) what is shooting at what, then roll some dice to determine the results. There are features in the program to accommodate any time of rolling (to hit, to wound, save, etc.), just explore the top row of buttons, they are all labeled.

Nor do i know how to arm the sponsons of a land raider or turn vehicles, but I will.

I told you this earlier in the thread. After you've dragged a model onto the board, select it, and use one of the following keyboard shortcuts. Alternatively, right click and a drop down menu will give you plenty of options.

Control + [ and Control + ]
Non-Vehicles: Cycle left and right weapon. Where only one weapon option is available, it will generally be Control + ]
Vehicles (Updated): Enables/removes the left and right sponson/mounted weapon.
Note: The [ and ] keys are the ones just to the right of the “P” button on UK and US keyboards.

Control + =
Non-Vehicles: Rarely used. Often used for a miscellaneous or other upgrade.
Vehicles (Updated): Enables/removes the turret or centrally mounted weapon.

Control + -
Infantry: Rarely used. Often used for a miscellaneous or other upgrade.
Vehicles (Updated): Enables/removes a hull mounted weapon. On vehicles without a hull mounted weapon, this instead cycles though the sponson weapon options.

Control + Shift + -
Vehicles (Updated): Used to cycle through the sponson options for vehicles with a hull mounted weapon.

Ok, thats helped a lot, and im having considerable success with vassal now. Not confident on MP yet, but one last question. Where can I find scatter dice? I have a sufficient way to do LD tests and everything, but no good way to scatter a dice yet. Can anyone help?

Thanks also for the previous time spent helping me, It is appreciated.

On the edge of the board where the green templates live, the scatter die sits to the right of the turn counter, and left of the 1 and 2 (granted, I'm still on 5.3). If it isn't there, go to the models tab, then Counters/Templates and then the Miscellaneous sub-tab. It'll be the first object there. Use the '3" Blast' and '5" Blast" features instead of using both the scatter dice and a template. It'll make the game go much quicker.

Another neat trick to save yourself army creation time if you're planning on using the same list multiple times:

Create a new offline game, and create your army on the field. Click on File, and select Begin Logfile. You will be asked to create a save file, so place it where you will remember.

Then drag and click the mouse to select your entire army, clone them (CTRL+C or right click menu), then drag the cloned army (no pun intended) to another part of the field. Click file again, and End Logfile.

Now when you join a game in the future, click File and select Load Continuation and browse over to the save file you created above. Click the arrow button that is the second button from the left (looks like a remote control pause/play button) and your army will appear on the battlefield.