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So lately I have seen a rising trend in making paper tanks based on GW designs and while I am all for scratch building this trend is starting to piss me off something fierce.....

I do not have any problem at all with someone building one up well with plasticard, painting it and using it, but what I am seeing is a growing trend of gamers making out of paper, foam board or similar glueing haphazardly and passing it off as a tank....

I am the first person the advocate using proxies, scratchbuilding minis, using model cars (Im looking at you ork players....) etc. etc. etc. but this current trend is sickening me.....

I for one am putting my foot down and refusing to play against people without at least a scrap of effort (hell we had a player with pipe cleaner models with googly eyes as count as bloodletters and I played him all the time without a problem) but this is getting ridiculous.....

Does anyone agree / disagree? Why or Why not......

I know I cant be the only only one who hates this type of attitude

Soo, scratchbuilding is fine, but only if you think it looks good?

Not everyone is good at scratchbuilding/modelling, and not everyone has the time to put alot of effort in.

Don't get me wrong, if someone was using a pipecleaner army for a long time, and showed no indication of ever improving it etc, I'd start to ask them why, but I certainly wouldnt refuse to play them.

Its much the same as painted vs non-painted, it doesnt really bother me unless the person doing it never actually intends to paint at all

Scratch-building is harder than some people make it appear. I put a fair bit of effort into a recent tank and it came out decidedly "Meh".

Still going to use it until I get enough armor to rotate it out, but I'm less inclined to try to scratch build the rest.

Seems some people take their army mens game a little too seriously.

Scratchbuilding is harder than it looks, and generally involves people putting in MUCH more effort than just gluing a basic kit together.

Writing off ALL papercraft modelling/gaming pieces based off a few beginner pieces is a little OTT.

Dude, you know the guy who plays Blood Letters
!

Apparently I didnt explain properly....

if your putting the time an effort into it Im there by all means aesthetic is a personal thing but seriously.....

if your gonna throw something together half assed it pisses me off and I dont particuarly like playing those people.

After speaking with our local gaming group we all agreed.....and I figured there would be some supporters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apparently I didnt explain properly....

if your putting the time an effort into it Im there by all means aesthetic is a personal thing but seriously.....

if your gonna throw something together half assed it pisses me off and I dont particuarly like playing those people.

After speaking with our local gaming group we all agreed.....and I figured there would be some supporters.

I see where you are coming from,

Playing against a largely paper craft army is like playing against an unpainted one, I'll play, but I won't enjoy it as much.

For me it has to be decent, you can print templates off the internet and with some time and patience make something that isn't too shabby. As long as they either replace it eventually, or go all out to make something amazing (there are a couple epic paper craft threads here and I would have no problems playing against any of the vehicles posted therein).

del'Vhar wrote:Soo, scratchbuilding is fine, but only if you think it looks good?

Not everyone is good at scratchbuilding/modelling, and not everyone has the time to put alot of effort in.

Don't get me wrong, if someone was using a pipecleaner army for a long time, and showed no indication of ever improving it etc, I'd start to ask them why, but I certainly wouldnt refuse to play them.

Its much the same as painted vs non-painted, it doesnt really bother me unless the person doing it never actually intends to paint at all

So you'll play a player that probably bought his rhinos pre built(badly) from ebay, and not one who clearly put more work into folding and cutting the paper needed to make the tank?
If i spend more time painting should i not play against people who spent fewer hours painting? If effort was put in and the model is recognizable, i have no issue. Good for them, Gw doesnt need the loot anyway.

Thats exactly what Im saying....built well is awesome I love scratchbuilds......but Im talking about these kids that print the templates cut them out and glue them playing with basicly computer paper....its ridiculous.

im sorry i posted before reading the whole thread.
Yes scratch built tanks that have had care put into their construction will fly with me, a cardboard box with rhino written on it, not so much.

I played against a Necron player with two Monoliths. However, one was a couple dozen Yu-Gi-Oh cards taped together, making a vague silhouette of a Monolith. I didn't let him use it.

Brother SRM wrote:I played against a Necron player with two Monoliths. However, one was a couple dozen Yu-Gi-Oh cards taped together, making a vague silhouette of a Monolith. I didn't let him use it.

That would be in interesting game...you destroy said yugiohlith and he gleefully exclaims, "You've activated my trap card!"

If the OP was complaining about poorly made scratchbuilds in general, I'd agree with him, but singling out the material rather than the quality of the final product makes no sense. Paper and cereal box cardboard can make pretty good models, if I do say so myself.

AlexHolker wrote:If the OP was complaining about poorly made scratchbuilds in general, I'd agree with him, but singling out the material rather than the quality of the final product makes no sense. Paper and cereal box cardboard can make pretty good models, if I do say so myself.

I would be tempted to light those on fire when you weren't looking...

sworth9411 wrote:Thats exactly what Im saying....built well is awesome I love scratchbuilds......but Im talking about these kids that print the templates cut them out and glue them playing with basicly computer paper....its ridiculous.

But those same kids are putting effort in. They are trying at least. Some kids are not good at painting and don't have the patience.

I see where you're coming from but unless it's a total pile of poop and they bring a cereal packet, or 3, which is meant to be landraiders or a bike sqaudron I don't really find it a problem. Some will as LOS and other things can be affected but if some effort is there they always get some latitude.

Che-Vito wrote:I would be tempted to light those on fire when you weren't looking...

I'll light you on fire, you little twerp.

AlexHolker wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:I would be tempted to light those on fire when you weren't looking...

I'll light you on fire, you little twerp.

"Alright, now that I bought that soda at the machine, I'm going to move my Land Rai..."

*looks at pile of ashes*

i think its not a matter of what the models are made of. i think it counts more to play against or rather with someone you feel sympathic to.

AlexHolker wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:I would be tempted to light those on fire when you weren't looking...

I'll light you on fire, you little twerp.

"You're gonna light my country music award on fire?"

Che-Vito wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:I would be tempted to light those on fire when you weren't looking...

I'll light you on fire, you little twerp.

"Alright, now that I bought that soda at the machine, I'm going to move my Land Rai..."

*looks at pile of ashes*

I attacked you with a flamer.....

Che-Vito wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:If the OP was complaining about poorly made scratchbuilds in general, I'd agree with him, but singling out the material rather than the quality of the final product makes no sense. Paper and cereal box cardboard can make pretty good models, if I do say so myself.

If I shot a flamer at that would it be an automatic pen?

To some extent I can agree with the OP. Ive seen bionicle defilers. Provided he brought them out and was planning on buying the models id be fine with it for a few games. If he was planning on making ti a perminant addition to his army I would tell him to find a new game.

sworth9411 wrote:Apparently I didnt explain properly....

if your putting the time an effort into it Im there by all means aesthetic is a personal thing but seriously.....

if your gonna throw something together half assed it pisses me off and I dont particuarly like playing those people.

After speaking with our local gaming group we all agreed.....and I figured there would be some supporters.

I think what you were trying to say is that you dislike it when someone's army look absolutely atrocious and they aren't prepared to invest time or money into making it look good?

If so then I agree.

sworth9411 wrote:So lately I have seen a rising trend in making paper tanks based on GW designs and while I am all for scratch building this trend is starting to piss me off something fierce.....
t......
I know I cant be the only only one who hates this type of attitude

You are not the only one.

For folks that like paper that much, and don;t have the resources to play Warhammer, there are always card and role playing games.

I once berated an Ork player for using plastic fire trucks from the dollar store for his Ork trucks. Sometimes I refuse to play people with unpainted armies of REAL GW Tanks! If you made yours out of paper, I wouldn't even acknowledge you are a player at all. If I saw people trying to play with paper tanks in a store, I'd be hard pressed not to say something abrasive, and at least say," You should really buy a tank like that here".

I don't care if 'kids' are 'trying' anyone who can't afford the basic gear, get out, play in your own house, and come back when you have the means.

Also, to be explicit, making a cheap paper proxy is not a scratch build.

I agree with the OP some what.
I've seen all types of scratch builds. From the 4x Toilet paper rolls hot glued to some sabol foam cut offs = warhond and 2 rhinos with a paper towel roll = ordniatus.
I've also seen amazing warhound made from an AT-AT, a plastic cup and Darth Vader's TIE fighter. It really depends on personal taste. The same guy who built the AT-AT warhound also "built" bunkers out of pie tins with nuts hot glued on for vision slits. It really depends on the amount of effort put into a project rather than personal skill.

^Speaking of the most awesome scratch build ever hahaha....

just want to see some form of effort......Im glad Im not the only one seeing this rising trend.....

Darn, I thought this was going to be a thread about how to make paper tanks, which I would have loved! Preferably little ones a la grot tanks, rather than the big GW vehicles...

And you know I love your work, sanford! (Particularly the work you did for me ) and it looks like you're only talking about people who put no effort into it. But a good papercraft tank would be very hard to pull off, I think, given my very limited attempts at oragami... so if someone did it well I'd be all for it and then some!

Only the wealthy are allowed to play the Sacred Game
Don't fret about creativity, just spend your way to an army.
Slap with a slice of lemon, wrapped around a gold brick for the first person to write, "If you can't afford the models don't play the game."
oops too late it's been said.
Ah well at least it was more eloquently put than the usual plutocratic speil Augustus.
Only makes me more determined to proxy stuff when I hear someone spouting that sort of drivel

Meh.

To me, it's a game. If somebody wants to play but doesn't have the money to buy all the necessary toys, I don't mind. As long as it looks like what it's supposed to be and is roughly the same size, I'm cool wit dat.

<<<<<applauds>>>>

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Only the wealthy are allowed to play the Sacred Game
Don't fret about creativity, just spend your way to an army.
Slap with a slice of lemon, wrapped around a gold brick for the first person to write, "If you can't afford the models don't play the game."
oops too late it's been said.
Ah well at least it was more eloquently put than the usual plutocratic speil Augustus.
Only makes me more determined to proxy stuff when I hear someone spouting that sort of drivel

We can't hear you from up on your moral high ground, Chibi.

We paid for our tanks, if you aren't paying, please put the time in to make them look acceptable.