Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The idea of the Red Terror swallowing custode bikers like a giant Pac-Man is amusing. I loved the Red Terror in the index but I haven't used him since the codex came out. There's just too many other options for deep striking nom-noms.

This weekend I played in the Alamo GT, a mid-sized GT here in San Antonio. For anyone who happened to be there, I was the guy with the long hair and the glossy green 'nids.

This post is going to be a brief(ish) write up of my list, the games I played, and my thoughts on how things worked.



The GT

The event was ITC style, with the beta FAQ. There was a single special secondary mission, Remember the Alamo, where you got 1 point for every 500 points of your army that got destroyed. When I read it, I was tempted to try to get my hands on 1500 points of spore mines, but instead ran the list I have been working on since the FAQ invalidated my Swarlord+'stealer drop build. The event had a bit under 90 players, was well ran except for the occasion issue with the BCP app, and had strong TO support. Terrain was solid, although a little sparse on some of mid tables. Top 15 or so tables had plenty of large LOS blocking pieces.

I missed my first game due to car issues, and played the second round against the lowest ranked player, who is a solid player but was still trying to wrap his head around an army switch from wolves to Necrons. I ended up going 3-1-1. I saw several other Tyranid players on the upper tables, with one starting round 4 in first place.

There appeared to be the normal range of armies. Lots of Tyranids (YAY!), Eldar (BOO!) and IG (of course). The FAQ seems to have successfully suppressed deep strike/reserve builds. I didn't take the time to review all the lists. Wandering around the tables I didn't see the masses of drop plasma IG that I'm used to. I also didn't see any Blood Angels. I'm sure there was at least one somewhere.



My Army

I ran a 'stealer/'gaunt horde, three battalions, taking advantage of the 5 CP thing. I did not have the chance to playtest before the event (grad school sucks).

Kraken: Broodlord, Neurothrope, 20x Genestealer, 20x Genestealer, 3x Ripper, 3x Venomthrope;
Jorgmundr: 2x Neurothrope, 19x Termagant (5 devourers), 19x Termagant (5 devourers), 30x Termagant (30 devourers), 6x shock cannon Hive Guard, 4x Ravener (rending claws, deathspitters);
Kronos: 2x Neurothrope, 3x3 Rippers

My general plan was to rush with the Kraken and deep strike the Jorgmundr turn 2 to deal with vehicles and clear chaff. The Kronos was there to grab objectives/deep strike in annoying places, and for the Kronos strat. Originally I was looking at running 60 'stealers, but there was no way for me to get the third squad build in time for the event. My warlord was one of the Jorgmundr Neurothropes, using the Jorgmundr warlord trait on the off chance I was able to get value from it.

By and large it worked. The Rippers and the sheer speed of Kraken led to me getting First Blood/Linebreaker for the one that I did not take Old School. I maxed Recon in every game, again due to Rippers and 'stealers.

My first game (round 2), against Necron's, was 50/50 until I killed his wraiths, then it turned in my favor rather quickly.

Game two was against a Wolf player trying to get small squads of Wolfen to work, supported by a Fire Raptor. It was a bad match up for him. It took 2 turns for the Hive Guard to kill the Fire Raptor, after that it was just mopping up.

Game three was against Guard. He had several small squads of infantry, various artillery tanks, a Hellhound and a fancy acid flamer tank, ogren, and a bunch of special characters, including 3 assassins. I traded once squad of 'stealers and the Broodlord for his infantry, smote down the acid flamer tank, shock cannoned the other one, and the game ended on time with me having ~15 or so 'stealers + 3 Neuro's and maybe half my 'gaunts vs his artillery tanks for a solid win.

Game four was against Death Guard: Morty, a deamon prince, Magnus, 2 Plague Crawlers, Tallyman, and marines. He let me go first, not realizing just how fast I could cross the table, and I got Magnus with 1st turn 'stealers. It went back and forth, with it ending (on turns) as a draw, mostly because the deamon prince would not fail saves. Second turn I was able to charge the thing with the Broodlord, did 0 wounds, died to the hits back. I ended up finishing him off with 'gaunts on turn 4, after spending turns 2 and 3 killing Morty (including my warlord perils of the warping himself to death in exchange for 4 mortals on Morty, who saved them all) and hitting the prince with everything I had left turn 4. Game ended a draw on turn 5 with less than 5 minutes left in the round.



Thoughts on the List

Mass Kraken 'stealers is all its cracked up to be. I feel the Broodlord is worth bringing simply because of the 2+ to hit bubble. He was very much a glass cannon, hitting something then getting killed, and didn't really deal enough damage to make up for his cost on his own, but the extra hits on the first turn charging 'stealer squad more than made up the difference. Said squad was normally close to full sized, and swinging twice, with only 2-3 models out of combat to tail back to him.

The same concept applied to the Venomthropes. I didn't expect that much out of them, but they provided enough first turn protection to justify being brought.

The shock Guard did their job but were streaky. The variance caused by having D3 shots was annoying. Bringing them and the devilgaunts in with the same unit of Raveners was more frustrating than I had expected. I knew that I would have issues with the two units preferring different targets, but thought that the range of their weapons would help. It did not.

The big unit of devilgaunts ended up feeling unnecessary. I'm used to using them as a chaff clearing unit in a Swarmlord/'Stealer list, and they did wonderfully there. They helped in my last game, putting wounds on Morty, and they helped in my first game by killing a few Wraiths, but in both cases equal points of Hive Guard or of 'stealers would have been just as good.

I could have dropped a devilgaunt from the big unit of 'gaunts to bump up the small units from 19 to 20 models to get the reroll, but I figured that they would take casualties fast enough that it would not matter. This turned out to be not true. The 'stealers grabbed lots of attention, and the 'gaunts tended to be ignored until mid game. The 5 devourers per ended up getting a lot of value plinking at units that were low priority.

The Raveners also ended up being more useful than expected. Again, the Genestealers attracted so much attention that they didn't get focused on until mid/late game, giving them the chance to do something.


Changes and Lessons Learned

The change from 3 to 5 CP is amazing. I have always front loaded my use of CP, on the logic that tilting a game early was better than saving them. I started with 18, used 3 for deepstriking units, and burned the rest like candy. I was able to double tap and double fight 2-3 times in every game, and still had CP to use for the odd reroll or strat.

Once I get my hands on 20 more 'stealers and sell a small child to pay for Forge World, the Kraken detachment is going to turn into 60 'stealers, the Broodlord, and a Malanthrope. The shrouding bubble only matters 1st turn, if I go second, so I'm not concerned about it only being 3". I need the character protection on the -1 to hit the Malanthrope provides. I got lucky by never being in a situation where an opponent with the firepower to nuke the Venomthropes went first against me.

I think the devilgaunts turn into 6 more shock Guard, or 6 Kronos Impaler Guard. 12 shock Guard dropping in with the Raveners, half of them double tapping, is a hard antitank punch.

I liked the medium squads of Termagants. I think the sweet spot is 20-25 models, with 10 of them having devourers. They occupy space, are durable, and will consistently tick wounds off anything that gets close enough to threaten them. Ideally the Jorgmundr would have three units of them, but points wise it is going to be tricky to make fit.

The Kronos did exactly what it was intended to. I was very happy with it. My only debate was between the Jorgmundr warlord and a Kronos warlord. My understanding is that warlord is chosen at the same time you select powers, so I may build a fancy Kronos Neurothrope (I've been using my old Doom of Malanti kitbash and have it based as Jorgi) and swap between the two depending on the opponent.

Points wise it is going to be tricky to get everything I want to fit. I'm feel like between the 'stealers, the Hive Guard, and the gaunts, i'm going to be able to get two out of three of the parts I want. I'll need to play with list builder for a while. I'm on the fence about more shock Guard or using Kronos Impaler Guard instead.

Nice write up. I have 54 GS and 2 BL and have been toying with trying that as well. Interesting observation about taking 20+ gaunts to get the reroll. I too have been fielding 19 to avoid giving up the secondaries. But now that I think about it, my HT and Genestealers ARE the ones always drawing the fire.
Might be worth a go.

Hi Babelfish, thanks for the great post, but I'm a little confused -- how'd you have 5 Neurothropes in your list?

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:
Hi Babelfish, thanks for the great post, but I'm a little confused -- how'd you have 5 Neurothropes in your list?

That was due to rewriting an old list while on autopilot due to little sleep and not catching the error until after the event. If I had done well enough to impact the standings, it would have been an issue, but missing my first game made it not matter.

I'm working on an improved and fully legal update to the list, I'll put it up in a day or two when I get it finished.

I’ll be testing out my Nids this Saturday at a RTT. Will let you know how it goes, but the list will be something close to:

Kraken Battalion:
Swarmy
Malanthrope

19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
19 Genestealers
30 hormagants

Kraken Battalion:
Neurothrope
Neurothrope

3 Rippers
3 Rippers
3 Rippers

5 Hive Guard
5 Hive Guard

Had a game with a carnifex heavy list against 1Ksons.

Kraken Battalion:
2x Neurothrope (Horror, Catalyst)
3x 3 Rippers
1x 4 Hive Guard
1x 3 Hive Guard
3x 3 Skyslasher Swarms

Kraken Spearhead:
Neurothrope (Warlord: One step ahead, Norn Crown, Onslaught)
Old One Eye
3x 3 Carnifex (Bone Mace, Acid Maw, Spore Cyst, 2x Devourers)
-> 9CP, 1997 points

He had Magnus, Rubrics, Ahriman, 1x Terminators, 2x Predators, and bit other stuff i cant remember (we had to pack really fast because the store was about to close and we were already 15 minutes over time, so i couldnt write down everything)
Mission: Maelstrom, tactical escalation, beta rules

He had really bad luck, getting first turn but failing warptime with magnus standing in front of my carnifex cluster (3+invuln anyhow). Screened by Rippers he could not get the charge of to the big ones (he wanted to jump behind my army and kill my neuros backfield) and got charged in my turn 1 bad by OOE, and 4 carnis. After this he was down on 5 wounds remaining. Turn 2 Magnus was down after killing OOE and both Predators dropped to BS 4+.
The shooting from his side was nearly not interesting, due to -1 to hit on my biggies. His psi got me hard instead, losing big chunks of wounds.
Terminators dropped down turn 2, killed some rippers and got their 11" charge of to my warlord, not killing it. Echo from Smite and 3x Carnifex kicked them off the table.
Turn 3-4 i crossed the table, shredding everything appart with my devourers and hive guard. Lost 3 carnis in the process, leaving 2 on 1 wound and one on 3 wounds but erasing eveything except from Ahriman off the table.

I wondered how effective Carnifex mass drop could be and was surprised of the good performance, even thought my opponent is meant to be a league player and it was a random pick up game (didnt know his list/army).
I had a feeling he was not fully into the game, or his list was not that optimized. Dont know chaos that much...
Ending the game turn 4 with 11 to 4 points for me.

Thoughts on my list.
- MVP was the Skyslashers. While everything was about to get that nasty monsters off the table they scored point after point.
- Carnifex: was interesting to see them grit blasting infantry and doing their job in melee as well. Was a bit of a hit back to lose OOE turn 2, but worked out quite well. Kraken is amazing, beeing able to recharge every turn, giving Carnifex +1 to hit and mortal wounds on 4+.
- OOE: is a beast, but even with catalyst not that durable against good melee units, adrenalin rush and death frenzy made him even deadlier but not more survivable
- Neurothrope: solid, having the norn crown worked out quite well, giving both hive guard units synapse. Shadow in the Warp was a nuisance all game long.
- Hive Guard: solid, doing their 'long range' job

I think i will try this some more times. Its very fun to play.

That's a really sick list I was considering doing something similar. Please keep us updated with how it evolves DaBraken!

 SHUPPET wrote:
That's a really sick list I was considering doing something similar. Please keep us updated with how it evolves DaBraken!

I got a fight offer against custodes bikes and one against harlequins.
If i find the time i will experience it with relish and share the outcome.

 DaBraken wrote:
Had a game with a carnifex heavy list against 1Ksons.

Kraken Battalion:
2x Neurothrope (Horror, Catalyst)
3x 3 Rippers
1x 4 Hive Guard
1x 3 Hive Guard
3x 3 Skyslasher Swarms

Kraken Spearhead:
Neurothrope (Warlord: One step ahead, Norn Crown, Onslaught)
Old One Eye
3x 3 Carnifex (Bone Mace, Acid Maw, Spore Cyst, 2x Devourers)
-> 9CP, 1997 points



Thoughts on my list.
- MVP was the Skyslashers. While everything was about to get that nasty monsters off the table they scored point after point.
- Carnifex: was interesting to see them grit blasting infantry and doing their job in melee as well. Was a bit of a hit back to lose OOE turn 2, but worked out quite well. Kraken is amazing, beeing able to recharge every turn, giving Carnifex +1 to hit and mortal wounds on 4+.
- OOE: is a beast, but even with catalyst not that durable against good melee units, adrenalin rush and death frenzy made him even deadlier but not more survivable
- Neurothrope: solid, having the norn crown worked out quite well, giving both hive guard units synapse. Shadow in the Warp was a nuisance all game long.
- Hive Guard: solid, doing their 'long range' job

I think i will try this some more times. Its very fun to play.

I like the list, kind of wish I had enough Carnifex to copy it and try it for myself. Couple questions for you:

Did the Skyslashers work out better than Rippers would have? I can see the logic, wonder how well it worked.

Have you considered running 6x Hive Guard? You only lose one model and you get to double tap with a full sized squad instead of the 4x squad.

If you could find the points for another Neurothrope, you could shuffle things around to get a Kronos Battalion for the Hive Guard. Reroll 1's, shut down spells. Or is Old One Eye an HQ? I don't play enough with him to know off the top of my head. If so, you wouldn't need to get the other Neurothrope.

babelfish wrote:

Spoiler:

 DaBraken wrote:
Had a game with a carnifex heavy list against 1Ksons.

Kraken Battalion:
2x Neurothrope (Horror, Catalyst)
3x 3 Rippers
1x 4 Hive Guard
1x 3 Hive Guard
3x 3 Skyslasher Swarms

Kraken Spearhead:
Neurothrope (Warlord: One step ahead, Norn Crown, Onslaught)
Old One Eye
3x 3 Carnifex (Bone Mace, Acid Maw, Spore Cyst, 2x Devourers)
-> 9CP, 1997 points



Thoughts on my list.
- MVP was the Skyslashers. While everything was about to get that nasty monsters off the table they scored point after point.
- Carnifex: was interesting to see them grit blasting infantry and doing their job in melee as well. Was a bit of a hit back to lose OOE turn 2, but worked out quite well. Kraken is amazing, beeing able to recharge every turn, giving Carnifex +1 to hit and mortal wounds on 4+.
- OOE: is a beast, but even with catalyst not that durable against good melee units, adrenalin rush and death frenzy made him even deadlier but not more survivable
- Neurothrope: solid, having the norn crown worked out quite well, giving both hive guard units synapse. Shadow in the Warp was a nuisance all game long.
- Hive Guard: solid, doing their 'long range' job

I think i will try this some more times. Its very fun to play.

I like the list, kind of wish I had enough Carnifex to copy it and try it for myself. Couple questions for you:

Did the Skyslashers work out better than Rippers would have? I can see the logic, wonder how well it worked.

Skyslashers have 12" movement and cant shoot. So i advance them often, which brings a big movement boost for objectives. In addition they are very small and can be hidden very well. Only 'problem', they are not troops, but for the cost they are worth it in my opinion.
Having rippers AND skyslashers brings lot of utility. Hold your own and grab the opponent ones. I always hold 1-2 ripper swarms in reserve, depending on battlefield and opponent.

Have you considered running 6x Hive Guard? You only lose one model and you get to double tap with a full sized squad instead of the 4x squad.

Yes i considered using a big unit of hive guard. But with 2 units you can adapt better to the battlefield and cover a bigger area while forcing the enemy to divide firepower. Smaller units can also better be hidden in cover than one big unit. Sure, double-tap is not that effective, but it worked out fine for me.
With one big unit i would have to pack them in the middle of the battlefield to cover as much space as possible. This restriction for placement can be avoided by dividing them.

If you could find the points for another Neurothrope, you could shuffle things around to get a Kronos Battalion for the Hive Guard. Reroll 1's, shut down spells. Or is Old One Eye an HQ? I don't play enough with him to know off the top of my head. If so, you wouldn't need to get the other Neurothrope.

I already got 3 Neurothropes, not possible to add another one (rule of three). In addition it is essential to have synaptic coverage of my 3 carnifex groups (instictice behaviour, Kronos=/=Kraken synapse). One neurothrope runs each with one group and the warlord sits behind as long as possible, using 30" Synapse to cover both hive guard units and the third group with OOE.
Old One Eye is indeed a HQ choice.

seems babelfish has an insatiable desire to take more than 3 Neurothropes

 SHUPPET wrote:
seems babelfish has an insatiable desire to take more than 3 Neurothropes

Apparently. I swear he only had two. Screen goblins must be rewritting things on me.

DaBraken, your logic makes sense to me. I'll have to try out the skyslashers. I assume you want to stick with only one hive fleet?

Guys I'm stuck between taking an


a.) Exocrine

b.) Nuerothrope + 3x Biovores but +4CP thanks to Battalion



For my Leviathan list. Worth mentioning that the 2nd one gives me backfield synapse for both Biovores plus the unit of Hive Guard I already have if needed, not sure how big a deal that is though. Thoughts? The Exocrine is obviously a lot more powerful than the other two. But the other one has benefits.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Guys I'm stuck between taking an


a.) Exocrine

b.) Nuerothrope + 3x Biovores but +4CP thanks to Battalion



For my Leviathan list. Worth mentioning that the 2nd one gives me backfield synapse for both Biovores plus the unit of Hive Guard I already have if needed, not sure how big a deal that is though. Thoughts? The Exocrine is obviously a lot more powerful than the other two. But the other one has benefits.

I'd keep the exocrine and find a way to cut 70 points somewhere else to make the battalion. Biovores are no longer worth with the recent points hike.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

babelfish wrote:


If you could find the points for another Neurothrope, you could shuffle things around to get a Kronos Battalion for the Hive Guard. Reroll 1's, shut down spells. Or is Old One Eye an HQ? I don't play enough with him to know off the top of my head. If so, you wouldn't need to get the other Neurothrope.

His list is unique in that the fex are already -1 to hit, but I've found that having my Hive Guard outside of a -1 to hit aura is just a feels bad moment. Yes, you can hide out of LOS most times, but being -1 to hit is just so huge, especially if the BLOS terrain is off to one side and you can't get proper target selection from behind it. Whether a Kraken Malanthrope or Venomthropes, I just can't see myself leaving home with Kronos any more since you can't afford to have a force multiplier in each Hive Fleet.

 luke1705 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Guys I'm stuck between taking an


a.) Exocrine

b.) Nuerothrope + 3x Biovores but +4CP thanks to Battalion



For my Leviathan list. Worth mentioning that the 2nd one gives me backfield synapse for both Biovores plus the unit of Hive Guard I already have if needed, not sure how big a deal that is though. Thoughts? The Exocrine is obviously a lot more powerful than the other two. But the other one has benefits.

I'd keep the exocrine and find a way to cut 70 points somewhere else to make the battalion. Biovores are no longer worth with the recent points hike.

Good suggestion, but this is my flex points I'm talking about here, I remove other gak and the list falls apart

 SHUPPET wrote:
Guys I'm stuck between taking an


a.) Exocrine

b.) Nuerothrope + 3x Biovores but +4CP thanks to Battalion



For my Leviathan list. Worth mentioning that the 2nd one gives me backfield synapse for both Biovores plus the unit of Hive Guard I already have if needed, not sure how big a deal that is though. Thoughts? The Exocrine is obviously a lot more powerful than the other two. But the other one has benefits.

I would personally take B. Biovores are more expensive but FAIR cost now, where as before they were a steal. STill do mortal wounds and have board control. The Neuro syngergize will with Leviathan as you pointed out grant the extra FNP Save. +4 CP is the kicker, we have so many stratagems that need CP its just a must. Not to mention if the Neuro is baby sitting the Biovores and somehow they do get charged by some fast moving stuff your can always pop War on All Fronts stratagem to help kill stuff quicker.

The exocrine is non synapse, which mean you are still needing to baby sit him with something else, or you lose your choice at targets, losing the FnP, he is hitting on 4's and only 6 shots. Thats double the Biovores, BUT the biovores do mortal wounds, and if you don't miss you still get your damage output. Plus with those CP you can always put shoot twice on a stronger unit.

Whats the rest of your list look like?

Rest of the list is 6x Enhanced Sense Dakkafex with 2x 9man Warrior units and a Prime, with 6x Venomthrope covering them. Some Rippers too. Really all the synapse is moving up the field so maybe the Neurothrope is the right call, to watch the 6 Hive Guard. A single random backfield Nuerothrope feels like wasted points though when I already have so much Synapse and another HQ.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Rest of the list is 6x Enhanced Sense Dakkafex with 2x 9man Warrior units and a Prime, with 6x Venomthrope covering them. Some Rippers too. Really all the synapse is moving up the field so maybe the Neurothrope is the right call, to watch the 6 Hive Guard. A single random backfield Nuerothrope feels like wasted points though when I already have so much Synapse and another HQ.

I ran a simillalist with 2x 6 man warriors, prime, malanthrope, 3x Carnie, rippers and GS. did well with the Synapse.
Make the Neuro your Warlord. The dakka fexes will be plenty of work, so excorine seems to just be more anti tank, where as the biovores give board control, mortal wounds (as does neuro) and you get the extra CP.

 luke1705 wrote:


His list is unique in that the fex are already -1 to hit, but I've found that having my Hive Guard outside of a -1 to hit aura is just a feels bad moment. Yes, you can hide out of LOS most times, but being -1 to hit is just so huge, especially if the BLOS terrain is off to one side and you can't get proper target selection from behind it. Whether a Kraken Malanthrope or Venomthropes, I just can't see myself leaving home with Kronos any more since you can't afford to have a force multiplier in each Hive Fleet.

The built in -1 to hit on the fexes is gold. I have had success with a min Kronos + Hive Guard, using Ripper deep strike to try and get value from the strat/claim objectives and hiding the Hive Guard out of line of sight. My area tends to play ITC rules and has decent terrain, so finding them a hiding spot is normally possible for me. I wouldn't run Malan/Venomthropes in Kronos unless I was going pure gunline with Exocrines/T-fexes.

I’m going to be running the 3x3 Zoanthrope stratagem in a game, and was pondering the best way to get it in range. It seems like Jormungandr with deepstriking ravener delivery is optimal, with a Neurothrope in the back and maybe some gaunts in front to soak charges.

If things work out, they pop in turn 2 and deliver the mortal wound bomb at the same time a Mawloc pops up and does additional wounds, while a Maleceptor double moves up the field and gets in range to deliver its own mortal wound aura. Granted this won’t be optimal against a lot of lists, but any sort of gunline should suffer massive damage from it, with a ton of 3/4++ invuln monsters in their face.

For the psychic barrage zoans, you don't really need a nuero since rerolling 1's doesn't matter.

More important to bring either a malanthrope with them, or if your going full jormy bomb, a tyranid prime with some warriors.


The idea is that the nuros come in, bomb the heck of out everything, and the warriors shoot up the weakened stuff, then charge the vehicles/characters that are in range.


Its a really nasty list, as they HAVE to deal with the warriors who are in them, then they have to get past the ravagers as well before they can go for the zoans.

Hopefully they ignore the zoans for a turn and you get to pop the strat again just because of the overwhelming pressure.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
For the psychic barrage zoans, you don't really need a nuero since rerolling 1's doesn't matter.

More important to bring either a malanthrope with them, or if your going full jormy bomb, a tyranid prime with some warriors.


The idea is that the nuros come in, bomb the heck of out everything, and the warriors shoot up the weakened stuff, then charge the vehicles/characters that are in range.

Its a really nasty list, as they HAVE to deal with the warriors who are in them, then they have to get past the ravagers as well before they can go for the zoans.

Hopefully they ignore the zoans for a turn and you get to pop the strat again just because of the overwhelming pressure.

Maybe Genestealers instead of Warriors? Bigger threat but you loose the shooting.

Malanthropes can’t pop in due to not being infantry, but venomthropes would work. I could do Ravener deepstrikers with deathspitters, warriors with deathspitters/boneswords, 3 units of zoanthropes, and 3 venomthropes. If there’s room I do want the neurothrope in there for rerolls on psychic tests when I can’t do the mortal wound bomb anymore. There should be plenty of room for that.

When I'm planning a psychic barrage, I do like to bring a neuro along.

Firstly, your oppponent is likely to shoot at the Zoeys to at the very least prevent another PB. So, a Zoey healer is useful.

Secondly, wiping out three Zoey units is a tall order, so next turn a reroll psychic aura is likely to be pretty useful.

It's a damned shame that T-cytes are single unit transports. Z-bombs and Warrior-bombs could be so cool.

Badablack wrote:When it comes to running the big melee beasties (haruspex, toxicrene, maleceptor kinda) I don’t think it’s really possible except with Kraken and first turn assaults. You need at least one of them in the enemy gunline or they’ll be too shot up by lascannons to have any real effectiveness. Just having 2-3” of better movement is not nearly enough.

From my experience it isn't so much getting a turn-1 charge with them as much as insuring that whatever you want to send them against is pinned down beforehand. If a big beast does manage to get into combat turn 1 by themselves the foe will just back away and light them up, but if the foe is contending with a swarm of Hormagaunts or Gargolyes it is much harder to escape.

I'm really liking Leviathan with the non-Trygon melee beasts. Hiding large creatures in a Tyrannocyte offers a bit of protection against alpha strikes plus makes it fairly easy to enable War on All Fronts to make up for the lack of scything talon rerolls.

Xenomancers wrote:Been toying around with Haruspex. It is a really fun unit. It is overpriced for sure but with some minor tweaks it could be really good.

I think the current price is fairly close to being good (it is one of the cheapest T8 models in the game currently), what it really needs is for the other T8 bugs to get a reduction to make a full skew list viable. With the right pricing a list with 3 Tervigons, 3 Tyrannofexes, and 3 Haruspexes backed up by a Hierodule or two could potentially be rough to deal with.

Badablack wrote:I’m going to be running the 3x3 Zoanthrope stratagem in a game, and was pondering the best way to get it in range. It seems like Jormungandr with deepstriking ravener delivery is optimal, with a Neurothrope in the back and maybe some gaunts in front to soak charges.

If things work out, they pop in turn 2 and deliver the mortal wound bomb at the same time a Mawloc pops up and does additional wounds, while a Maleceptor double moves up the field and gets in range to deliver its own mortal wound aura. Granted this won’t be optimal against a lot of lists, but any sort of gunline should suffer massive damage from it, with a ton of 3/4++ invuln monsters in their face.

Personally, I'd probably dispense with deployment gimmicks and just run the Zoanthropes broods amidst a Hydra swarm. The enemy only has so much anti-infantry to devote to their removal and the swarm insures foes will probably castle up as a countermeasure.

lindsay40k wrote:

It's a damned shame that T-cytes are single unit transports. Z-bombs and Warrior-bombs could be so cool.

You can at least tunnel them in. No Carnifex drops is the real tragedy :( 3 in a pod would be sick, but as it currently stands the pod literally costs more than the unit. Hard to justify that.

 DaBraken wrote:
Had a game with a carnifex heavy list against 1Ksons.

Kraken Battalion:
2x Neurothrope (Horror, Catalyst)
3x 3 Rippers
1x 4 Hive Guard
1x 3 Hive Guard
3x 3 Skyslasher Swarms

Kraken Spearhead:
Neurothrope (Warlord: One step ahead, Norn Crown, Onslaught)
Old One Eye
3x 3 Carnifex (Bone Mace, Acid Maw, Spore Cyst, 2x Devourers)
-> 9CP, 1997 points

He had Magnus, Rubrics, Ahriman, 1x Terminators, 2x Predators, and bit other stuff i cant remember (we had to pack really fast because the store was about to close and we were already 15 minutes over time, so i couldnt write down everything)
Mission: Maelstrom, tactical escalation, beta rules

He had really bad luck, getting first turn but failing warptime with magnus standing in front of my carnifex cluster (3+invuln anyhow). Screened by Rippers he could not get the charge of to the big ones (he wanted to jump behind my army and kill my neuros backfield) and got charged in my turn 1 bad by OOE, and 4 carnis. After this he was down on 5 wounds remaining. Turn 2 Magnus was down after killing OOE and both Predators dropped to BS 4+.
The shooting from his side was nearly not interesting, due to -1 to hit on my biggies. His psi got me hard instead, losing big chunks of wounds.
Terminators dropped down turn 2, killed some rippers and got their 11" charge of to my warlord, not killing it. Echo from Smite and 3x Carnifex kicked them off the table.
Turn 3-4 i crossed the table, shredding everything appart with my devourers and hive guard. Lost 3 carnis in the process, leaving 2 on 1 wound and one on 3 wounds but erasing eveything except from Ahriman off the table.

I wondered how effective Carnifex mass drop could be and was surprised of the good performance, even thought my opponent is meant to be a league player and it was a random pick up game (didnt know his list/army).
I had a feeling he was not fully into the game, or his list was not that optimized. Dont know chaos that much...
Ending the game turn 4 with 11 to 4 points for me.

Thoughts on my list.
- MVP was the Skyslashers. While everything was about to get that nasty monsters off the table they scored point after point.
- Carnifex: was interesting to see them grit blasting infantry and doing their job in melee as well. Was a bit of a hit back to lose OOE turn 2, but worked out quite well. Kraken is amazing, beeing able to recharge every turn, giving Carnifex +1 to hit and mortal wounds on 4+.
- OOE: is a beast, but even with catalyst not that durable against good melee units, adrenalin rush and death frenzy made him even deadlier but not more survivable
- Neurothrope: solid, having the norn crown worked out quite well, giving both hive guard units synapse. Shadow in the Warp was a nuisance all game long.
- Hive Guard: solid, doing their 'long range' job

I think i will try this some more times. Its very fun to play.

I've run a pretty similar list to that many times. It rakes.

Hey Babelfish. I must say, I like the list.

I have an adaptation that I have been testing.

Battalion :

2x Flyrant, 2x MST, Adrenals and Toxin.
1x Malanthrope
1x Neurothrope

3x 10 gants.
3x 25 gants.

Vanguard detatchment : GSC

Magus
Primus

20x PS-Stealers
2x 16x PS-Stealers


Magus + Primus with the 20blob and strat to roll 3 dice for deployment. Plus you can re-roll those thanks to the Primus.

T1 DS threat.

Flyrants are deployed on the table in LOS. Since they can ignore it for movement purposes.

Gants are there to saturate objectives.
Malanthrope is there to make it hard to hit em

How are people getting LOS with flying tyrants? Unless you can model them with their wings somehow folded closed, those guys are visible behind anything but the biggest terrain.