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The FW tank, the LR achilles, is out. Those who were at the UK games day might have seen it next to the raid on kastorel-novem showcase is a cabinet. Here it is:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Space-Marine-Tanks/LAND-RAIDER-ACHILLES-COMPLETE-KIT.html

P.S: sorry, my PC won't copy pictures for some reason...

thoughts?

personally? Wow. I know what I want for christmas.

So ... how isnt this just a 95$ land raider? cuz it has a big assault cannon on its front? ... 10 seconds with plasticard could replicate the track skirts exactly so ....

I think that might be a thunderfire cannon. Which will come in very handy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
but yeah someone with ok conversion skills could probably make one quite easily

What?

This one?

Bucketful of ugly.

Where are the rules for it?

Looks interesting. Where are the rules for it?

There aren't any yet.

It isn't even released yet - won't be until Dec 6th.

Looking at the model though, it seems to lack transport capacity.

The rules are here. As you can see, it's an obnoxiously durable vehicle that will no-sell anything some armies can throw at it.

Warseer has a link to the rules pdf. Here it is - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/a/achilles.pdf

Among the relevant bits are -

Not affected by the Lance rule; Not affected by the Melta rule; -1 to the die roll when rolling on the damage table.

Curiously enough, while it's available to Vanilla marines, SW, DA, and BT, it is *not* available for BA marines.

Immune to Melta, Immune to Lance. All results are at -1 on the damage chart.

This means it's about twice as durable against Railguns compared with a normal Land Raider, totally immune to destruction by Meltaguns/Dark Lances/Bright Lances, about twice as hard to destroy as a normal Land Raider with Lascannons/Demolisher cannons, etc. Oh, and totally impossible to stop with a glancing hit except by anything with AP1 rolling a 6.

It was not well thought out, unlike most other Forgeworld things. This, the Damocles Drop Pod and the Caestus have really been sort of head scratching next to the rest of FW's offerings for the most part.

That is a very evil Land Raider - I want one. Looks like the only reliable way of standing a chance of killing it is a demolisher/vindicator squadron and hope that big template hits in the middle with strength 10 because melta is going to do feth all. Should be another 50 points IMO

Ed_Bodger wrote:That is a very evil Land Raider - I want one. Looks like the only reliable way of standing a chance of killing it is a demolisher/vindicator squadron and hope that big template hits in the middle with strength 10 because melta is going to do feth all.

Warseer's got a 2+ page thread full of ridiculing the absurdly hard-to-kill nature of this thing. I think my favorite comment was the one observing that if a Sisters army took Excorcists as all three Heavy Support choices, then on average it would take ten turns to kill this thing - assuming that they spend all of that time doing nothing but shooting at it.

Nice model, but certianly not work the price tag.

The tank is hilarious. Such a waste of time.

I would think the way to do it in is through CC. MCs and Chainfists come to mind immediately and Power Fists and Thunder hammers shouldn't be too bad against it either.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I would think the way to do it in is through CC. MCs and Chainfists come to mind immediately and Power Fists and Thunder hammers shouldn't be too bad against it either.

Pfists and T-hammers, if wielded by S4 models, can do no better than Weapon Destroyed against it. MC's and Chainfists still are only killing it about half as often as they would otherwise, which is a *very* significant reduction in kills.

Then send in Lysander. The -1 is cancelled out by his +1 and he is Str 10.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:Then send in Lysander. The -1 is cancelled out by his +1 and he is Str 10.

That's a single 200pt Special Character in one army that people may or may not have that has to get to the thing and successfully land hits and still is about 33% less effective than against a normal land raider. A rather awkward solution. Ironclads would be a good bet if it weren't for the two TL'd, PotMS capable Multimeltas.

H.B.M.C. wrote:The tank is hilarious. Such a waste of time.

Especially given that other then aircraft, Gatling-type rotary cannons almost utterly useless in a fixed mount on a land vehicle.

Warseer's got a 2+ page thread full of ridiculing the absurdly hard-to-kill nature of this thing. I think my favorite comment was the one observing that if a Sisters army took Excorcists as all three Heavy Support choices, then on average it would take ten turns to kill this thing - assuming that they spend all of that time doing nothing but shooting at it.

Link?

If someone took one against me I'd be happy they spent 300 points on a confused mess, and fire at their other units (of which they'll have very few, after wasting 300 points on this paper weight).

Vaktathi wrote:Immune to Melta, Immune to Lance. All results are at -1 on the damage chart.

No, because it would be literally indestructible against some armies.

nickmund wrote:I think that might be a thunderfire cannon.

Which would be a horrible waste of a land raider.

Seriously, it's going to cost at least 300 points, and going to be utterly worthless, like all forgeworld LR variants...

anon/rassilon wrote:Link?

Here. My post Eumerin mentioned is #36.

Ailaros wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Immune to Melta, Immune to Lance. All results are at -1 on the damage chart.

No, because it would be literally indestructible against some armies.

Those are still the rules as they stand ATM.

Ailaros wrote:

Vaktathi wrote:Immune to Melta, Immune to Lance. All results are at -1 on the damage chart.

No, because it would be literally indestructible against some armies.

That's exactly what its rules are currently if you look at the PDF forgeworld released for it, and yeah, that's exactly why people have a problem with it, because it *is* almost indestructible against many armies.

It is 300pts, but it's still got a transport capacity and is practically unkillable. FW has lost its way with some of its more recent Space Marine stuff (this, the Caestus, Damocles drop pod)

Ailaros wrote:Seriously, it's going to cost at least 300 points, and going to be utterly worthless, like all forgeworld LR variants...

Are you psychic or something? It does cost 300 points and is utterly worthless, just like all FW LR variants.


Still looks cool though, and gives me yet another vehicle to buy for my "Land Raiders across the Ages" project, where my aim is to own at least one of every Land Raider type ever made.

Meh, just takes 2 squads of broadsides to kill it in a turn, on average.

Shrike325 wrote:Meh, just takes 2 squads of broadsides to kill it in a turn, on average.

Good thinking. I'll go and get some Broadsides for my Necrons, my Guard, my Tyranids and my Chaos armies.

Thanks for finding such a simple and universal solution to the issue of killing this tank.

Shrike325 wrote:Meh, just takes 2 squads of broadsides to kill it in a turn, on average.

You need three squads, not two, to kill it that fast: you need an average of 6.5-7.2 S10 AP1 hits to kill it, which means that even with the Targeting Array you need 8-9 Broadside-turns of shooting to get the job done.

And as has been pointed out, not all armies have entire squads of twin-linked S10 AP1 guns lying around.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Ailaros wrote:Seriously, it's going to cost at least 300 points, and going to be utterly worthless, like all forgeworld LR variants...

Are you psychic or something? It does cost 300 points and is utterly worthless, just like all FW LR variants.

Very impressive - to have predicted it so perfectly, after the information was already posted...

Nothing says he read it before posting. I've seen a few posters here not knowing that the rules even exist.