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Yeah, the only people that truly fail with the new nids don't understand the concept of pressure units and multiple threat vectors. Build your list right and you'll scare the pants off everyone.

Incidentally the new Warhammer 40,000 rulebook FAQ is up and I think Tyranid players will be interested to read answers regarding exiting destroyed transports, and hitting vehicles in close combat.

Also, while reading it, it occurred to me that thanks to Stealth a Lictor can appear within 6" of a Venomthrope and it gets a Cv4+.

So I'm going reserve-heavy in my 2011 Tyranid tourney lists. And for 'Ard Boyz, I'm actually thinking of running a unit of bonesword Shrikes. Their big upsides and big downsides are well-documented, but I think they might blossom a bit in a reserves army at that points level.

They gain some durability thanks to the army build. Drop them conservatively and (barring horrific reserves rolls) they probably won't attract a ton of attention considering all the other threats up in my opponent's face.

And they bring two useful things to the table. They give the army some post-drop speed, which can sometimes be an issue in pod armies. And they give me some anti-hard target/anti-deathstar capacity in the absence of the Swarmlord that doesn't involve me throwing my valuable Trygons or Tyrant at something.

My 'Ard Boyz build might go a few different ways, and playtesting might tell me differently, but right now I'm kinda intrigued by what Shrikes can bring to the table.

gorgon wrote:So I'm going reserve-heavy in my 2011 Tyranid tourney lists. And for 'Ard Boyz, I'm actually thinking of running a unit of bonesword Shrikes. Their big upsides and big downsides are well-documented, but I think they might blossom a bit in a reserves army at that points level.

They gain some durability thanks to the army build. Drop them conservatively and (barring horrific reserves rolls) they probably won't attract a ton of attention considering all the other threats up in my opponent's face.

And they bring two useful things to the table. They give the army some post-drop speed, which can sometimes be an issue in pod armies. And they give me some anti-hard target/anti-deathstar capacity in the absence of the Swarmlord that doesn't involve me throwing my valuable Trygons or Tyrant at something.

My 'Ard Boyz build might go a few different ways, and playtesting might tell me differently, but right now I'm kinda intrigued by what Shrikes can bring to the table.

I used 3 rending shrikes with a Barbed Strangler at a 3 game 'ard boys tourney last month, I loved them, got a fresh bag of wings from forgeworld last week, going to try them again. Some games I'd DS them, some just have fly on reserve Or run them behind gargoyles(my favorite choice)

For more educational purposes, than as a suggestion, i'd like to hear your take on this setup;

HQ:
Swarmlord
- 2x Guard
Parasite of M.

Elite:
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Ymgarl x10

Troops:
Gaunt x10
Gaunt x10
Tervi
- (AG, TS, Cata, Large)
Tervi
- (AG, TS, Cata, Large)

Fast Attack:
Gargoyle x10
Gargoyle x10

Heavy Support:
Trygon
Trygon

Total: 2000 pts

Basically, the main philosophy here is to have a list that utilizes the Swarmlords to his full extend. If people have ever faced him in Melee, they're much unlikely to do so again. (He's just evil - pure evil!). And around the arrival of Ymgarls, a psycological impact, aswell as having all the support available to throw on a unit.

Though, only having 2 small 10-squad Garg's bothers me, and in such small numbers, probably won't last a round. But i wasn't sure where to take points from to fill in some more!
- Also, the lack of speed on the Swarmlord is a concern aswell. For example; having Gargs lock enemies up in melee, to have the Swarmlord aid them later on would be much prefeered. Having that little Gargs makes me doubt the succes of this!

As intended, what i think makes this list shine are the Ymgarls, as they've been a huge part of all the games i've won so far. They're just able to fill so many roles, and with all the support-based units, they're gonna shine once they hit the board (which was the main philosophy in this list).


Suggestions/Thoughts?

This could be a horible suggestion, but you could drop a whole trygon make the remainding one a prime and get another 20 gargoyles

Or aren't Ymgarls ~3 'Goyles? they may be a key unit but how well have they performed against their targets? Would 9 or 8 be enough?

Otherwise... it's just the parasite? But how's he been performig for you in-game? You didn't say much!

Parasite is fantastic until he gets tagged by a powerfist

I use PoMmy as a light tank hunter with a gargoyle escort for ablative wounds, when i take him (which is rarely).

Wanted to get everyone's oppinion on the following. I am still VERY much a Nid n00b, the only thing i know, is what direction i want to take this army

HQ
Vanilla Hive Tyrant with Regen, Hive Commander, and two Tyrant Gaurds - 335 pts
Parasite of Mortex - 160 pts

Elites
3 Hive Gaurds - 150pts
3 Lictors - 195 pts

Fast Attack
20 Gargoyles with toxin sacs and adrenal glands - 160 pts
3 Raveners with spinefists and rending claws - 120 pts

Troops
Tervigon with regeneration and catalyst, 25 Termagants - 285 pts
25 Hormagaunts with toxin sacs - 200 pts
19 genestealers with a broodlord, all with adrenal sacs - 384 pts

Heavy Support
Trygon Prime with regeneration - 280 pts

grand total of 1999 points


As the title implies, my goal is to create the most annoying Tyranid army for my opponents, while creating the most fun for myself .

The above army is broken down into a few parts, the 2 'Cores' of it will contain the Tyrant and Hive Gaurds, and the Tervigon with its Termagaunts, both with a mass of Hormagaunts supported by an increasing number of termagants to slowly creep foward behind. The Parasite of Mortex will be joined by the 20 gargoyles to go harass outlying units of enemy infantry, that are isolated or are bunkered in on an objective.
Aside, from the above, the rest of the army will be held in reserve, ideally i aim to get the lictors out as soon as possible, followed quickly by the Trygon prime and the Raveners. All three of which will be hammering the back of the enemy's lines while the two cores assail the front of their lines. Given the tunnel created by the Trygon, i could have the Genestealers emerge from it to support it and the Raveners, or outflank them to create a Box of carnage.
The goal of this list is to give too many things to shoot at, as in every unit was created to draw fire away from another unit. This forces the opponent to either split his fire against EVERYTHING (lowering the number of heavy shots to my high-value models) or focus his fire at one section of the army (giving the others vast amounts of time to quickly close the distance).

Well, thats my crazy idea in a nutshell, can you help me flesh out this list to help me get to that goal?

Well first, you can't take a tervigon as a troop choice without a squad of termigaunts (unless i am crazy and hormi's count for this as well)

Grundz wrote:Well first, you can't take a tervigon as a troop choice without a squad of termigaunts (unless i am crazy and hormi's count for this as well)

i wrote them inline with the Tervigon, one brood of 25 naked gants. i just bundled the points for the unit and the Tervy all together

Anidem wrote:Wanted to get everyone's oppinion on the following. I am still VERY much a Nid n00b, the only thing i know, is what direction i want to take this army

HQ
Vanilla Hive Tyrant with Regen, Hive Commander, and two Tyrant Gaurds - 335 pts
Parasite of Mortex - 160 pts

Elites
3 Hive Gaurds - 150pts
3 Lictors - 195 pts

Fast Attack
20 Gargoyles with toxin sacs and adrenal glands - 160 pts
3 Raveners with spinefists and rending claws - 120 pts

Troops
Tervigon with regeneration and catalyst, 25 Termagants - 285 pts
25 Hormagaunts with toxin sacs - 200 pts
19 genestealers with a broodlord, all with adrenal sacs - 384 pts

Heavy Support
Trygon Prime with regeneration - 280 pts

grand total of 1999 points

First of all, i'd strongly suggest you do read the whole original post. Hulks have collected alot (ALOT!) of great, great stuff, and furthermore, explained WHY X unit is good or bad to throw into a list.

Secondly, the Lictors... They're hardly worth their points. Some might say they are, but alot of arguments have been made about leaving the Elite slots for Hive Guards. They're just too solid a unit to ignore!

Also, you seem fond of pumping up all your units. I'm not sure i'd suggest you to do so. If you do some math, and collect all the additional costs for all the AG, TS, making Trygon a Prime, Regen for Tervigon (and no AG + TS!!?), and so on, you could've added another whole squad that might've raked alot more havoc.

Well, nothing of an expert myself. But what my experience and gained knowledge from the real 'Nid-players in here has tought me a thing or two!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tetrisphreak wrote:I use PoMmy as a light tank hunter with a gargoyle escort for ablative wounds, when i take him (which is rarely).

I actually haven't given him a try just yet, so i'm not really sure of his worth. The main focus in the list evolves around having alot of force-multiplier units, that can strenghten the army and having units that's quick at reaching and tying up the enemy squads (e.g. with lots of buffs from SwL + Tervi'es).
- With that in mind, PoMmy (kewl nick!) got the same speed as the 'Goyles, meaning he'd reach the enemy with the rest of the Winged's (well, unless they'll get shot to bits from being too few), and maybe even use them as a screen once they assault.

On the other hand, he (PoMmy) COULD be taken out. But in that case, i'd be unsure about which unit should replace him..?

Billinator wrote:HQ:
Swarmlord
- 2x Guard
Parasite of M.

Elite:
Hive Guard x2
Hive Guard x2
Ymgarl x10

Troops:
Gaunt x10
Gaunt x10
Tervi
- (AG, TS, Cata, Large)
Tervi
- (AG, TS, Cata, Large)

Fast Attack:
Gargoyle x10
Gargoyle x10

Heavy Support:
Trygon
Trygon

Total: 2000 pts

This is a good 'multiple threat' style list. Good enough for you to just start playtesting. There are things you've got that i don't like, and things you don't have that I really like.... but the changes are too nitpicky and wouldn't really make sense unless it was in the context of a game.

I say just get some table time with this thing. Having a nid list pumping on all cylinders makes it exponentially more devastating. People may ignore genestealers/gargoyles just long enough for you to slap feel no pain and furious charge/preferred enemy on them. Or they might hammer your ymgarls/gargs on turn 1 and two, leaving you free to get trygons across the table untouched and your tervigons free to cover the board in gants.

Or they'll split their fire and get tabled.

I was rereading the first post and noticed you have no info on Venomthropes. Does no one else use them? `Cause I love the buggers. Even with all the other awesome Elites that the `Nids have I make a point of squeezing in a pair of these guys. They're awesome for making your opponents use up their fire either trying to kill them, or on the cover saves that they give to your other big beasties or front line cannon fodder. They tend to hang out around my Tervigon/Gaunt/T-Fex bricks where they can pretty much cover the whole lot.

If they're still around when people assault you, the Dangerous Terrain is a nice bonus, and if they don't have Grenades, they're striking at Int 1. The game where they had the greatest impact was actually a mirror match against another `Nids list. There are few things more satisfying than wiping out a unit of Genestealers in melee with Gaunts without losing a single Gaunt.

Yeah they haven't been mentioned. I would certainly run a unit if I was still running my tyranid gunline.

They are great when you are drawing an enemy onto your tarpits. And make tervigons and t-fexes that much harder to kill, until they are handled. And they don't even need to be in LOS or non-pinned to do this.

However, with my current nid lists, and other peoples nid lists that cover more of the table, we are moving more aggressively, and that 6" bubble is a millstone around our necks.

Shep wrote:However, with my current nid lists, and other peoples nid lists that cover more of the table, we are moving more aggressively, and that 6" bubble is a millstone around our necks.

Yup, mostly that. They could tag along with the T-beasts, I suppose, but I generally have a better use for the Elite slot than further defending the backfield bugs.

Some day, I need to play around w/a 6 Hive Guard, 2 Venomthrope, 2 Tervigon, 3 T-fex list; I suspect many (non-SW) players will have difficulty in dislodging me from anywhere I choose to be. But of all the ways to play the 'Nids, I find gunline to be least interesting in concept.

That's actually where I've been migrating my forces too. Love running a pair of Venomthropes, a pair of T-Fexes, and a pair of Tervigons with their entourage of Gaunts. Add in other things to fit my current mood, which I did just finally pick up my first pair of Hive Guard to throw into the mix.

We just had a 13 person local tourney. 3x Nid, 1x Blood Angel, 2x Vanilla marines, 1x Eldar, 3x IG, 2x Chaos and 1 Tau. All three Tyranid lists were quite different and placed 1-2-3 with a good SM force finishing 4th. Now it wasn't on the same level of 'ard boys but there were certainly quality IG, SM, Tau and Eldar lists there.

So what do people think about running a core of shooty and assaulty warriors with a regen Prime in an MC heavy list?

Warriors with LW/BS are probably one of the most deadly assault units in the game, their only weakness being T4 and their 4+ save. However, with a lot of other T6 stomping up the field to draw fire (say a Flyrant and pair of Trygons with a Garg screen on one flank, and your Tervigons walking up the center guarded by a Warrior Brood and your list's essential Hive Guard) then I think they really come into the open as a good counterassault unit against anything but a Dreadnought, or as a good force to get into the opponent's deployment zone then rip out 15-24 S5 shots depending on brood size.

Anyone have any experience using them in tourney lists? Think they add anything unique and useful that say, a Trygon or even another Hive Tyrant could do instead?

ramongoroth wrote:We just had a 13 person local tourney. 3x Nid, 1x Blood Angel, 2x Vanilla marines, 1x Eldar, 3x IG, 2x Chaos and 1 Tau. All three Tyranid lists were quite different and placed 1-2-3 with a good SM force finishing 4th. Now it wasn't on the same level of 'ard boys but there were certainly quality IG, SM, Tau and Eldar lists there.

I'd be glad if you could share, roughly at least, what the nid-lists looked like and how they played out.

Read the entire OP (if not the entire 12 page thread!) and some of the lists people have posted in the thread, and this is fantastic. I'm really thinking of getting back into 40k with tyranids, and this tactica is really helpful. Thanks

Glad you like it RiTides. It was my hope that a lot of good information would get spread around and show that Nids can be played in 5th, well. And the guys on here have added tons of great content. I'm building my stuff for 2011 but because of Adepticon being 1850 (not something I like for my Nids) i'll be playing something else. But likely for Nova, BolsCon, Bugeater, and as many of the cali tournies as I can make I'll probably be running me bugs

Mellon wrote:

I'd be glad if you could share, roughly at least, what the nid-lists looked like and how they played out.

The first list (3rd place) I'm going by memory as he left his printouts at home. Some of the numbers are likely off and I don't know all the details. He won the first two games vs a standard mech guard (melta vets, vendettas, etc) and a solid marine player. I faced him in the final round with my list (below) and I won a very bloody affair (16 or so kill points combined). He outflanked the stealers and talking with him after the tourny they were the star of his first two games. In our match I was able to counter charge the Ymargls and his second group with my prime and back up. His Hive Tyrant and horms were the two that did the most damage against my list.

HQ
Hive Tyrant - Old Adversary, 2x TL guns of some kind.
2 Tyrant Guard w/ lash whips
Tyranid Prime with... stuff. When we played it died before I found out what it had.

Elites
2x Zolanthrope
1x Zolanthrope
10x Ymargl stealers

Troops
2 large Termagant squads w/ fleshborers
1 large hormagant squad w/ toxin sacs
8 stealers toxin
9 stealers toxin
5 or 6 Warrios w/ guns (joined by prime)

Fast
16 gargoyles

Heavy
3 Biovores
1 Carnifex scything talons, adrenal glands

2nd place (me)

First game I won vs a guard player. His list wasn't as optimized as some others and it ended up a big win for me. Second round I played against a reserve denial Eldar list (2 autarch, 3x min DA in serpetns, 2x min Fire dragons serpents, 2x 4 GJB and 3 prisms). I won on table quarters and kill points as he was zipping around and the game ended on turn 5. He killed a single gant squad. The last game I beat the list above. As I said, very bloody. I had the primary objective, he had the secondary and I won on kill points 9 to 7. The Hive guard did awesome and the T-fexes did their share of damage and soaked up fire. Against the above nid list the Tfexes were able to ID the prime and a zolanthrope or two. Against IG every turn one Leman Russ was not firing at me cause of the rupture cannons.

HQ
1 Tyranid Prime, lash whip bonesword regeneration
1 Tervigon, adrenal, toxin, catalyst, scything talons

Elites
8 Hive guard

Troops
2 x 10 termagants
2 x Tervigons, adrenal, toxin, onslaught, sctyhing talons

Heavy
3 x Tyrannofex w/ rupture cannons.

1st place

This list crushed everything it faced. First it beat a mech blood angel list. Secondly it beat a solid mech guard list. However both players admitted that the guard player had some bad die roll whiffs early in the game that could have made the game more competitive. Third round it nearly tabled a mech marine player but on the last turn a speeder scout squad was able to move, assault gants and claim the main objective and then had the game end right afterwards giving him a draw. If the game went another turn it would have been three major victories. Looking at the list he's got a lot of points soaked up into the swarm lord and tyrant with thin troops but he made it work and work very well.

HQ

Swarmlord w/ 1 guard w/ lash whip
Hive Tyrant, wings, lash whip, bonesword, scything talons, parox, lecch, hive commander

Elites
3x zolanthropes w/ pod
6 hive guard

Troops
10 gants fleshborer
Tervigon stinger salvo, catalyst
5 Genestealer w/ Broodlord
12 horms no upgrades

Fast
4 shrikes scything talons, lash whip/bonesword

Heavy
Trygon Prime, adrenal glands

Interesting list, that last one -- very serious anti-vehicle capabilities in the Elite slot, obviously, which presumably were enough to open up transports for the anti-infantry components to start getting to work. I'm a little surprised it did OK against fully meched up lists though (even 2-3 vehicle kills a turn may not be enough against a list with 10+ vehicles). Has some quite expensive, and relatively small & fragile, units too -- the genestealers and shrikes -- how did he keep them alive long enough to do damage? Presumably running them up behind the hormies... but those look a bit fragile too!

Every time I look at the list I have the same thoughts. The blood angel list was a small model count army. I know the IG player on turn 2 or 3 had a very bad turn. His Vendettas came on, unloaded into the zolanthropes and didn't kill any of them. The hive guard and zolantropes did significant damage while not taking any losses in return due to positioning, cover and luck. The player behind the nid army has been around a long time and is certainly very skilled. His army looked amazing as well. I didn't see much of the last game to know what happened. I know the marine player had 2 preds (ac, 2x las) 1 vindicator a couple scout squads, perhaps another speeder, 4 troops combat squaded with rhinos so there certainly were a lot of vehicles there but not many templates.

I had a really close game and wanted to share: 1850 vs Salamanders

Nids
Flyrant with HC and OA

Prime with LW/BS and regen
Venomthrope

2 zoans in a spod w/ cluster spines

devgants in a spod w/ venom cannon

2 x 15 gaunts AG and toxin

8 genestealers with broodlord and toxin

5 Warriors with talons, 2xBS and AG

Fex w/ 2x tl BL worms

Fex w/ 2x talons, frag and AG

The salamander list was

He'stan
5 Terminators 2LC 3 Hammer
LRR w/ MM

Tac w/ flamer and ML in rhino

Tac w/ m, mm sarge with pw in a DP

8 scouts with cloaks sniping

Dev squad with 2 MM and 2 HB

TFC

Ironclad w/ HF

Vindicator w/ SS


I was a bit confused at seeing devs but tanks were not available. He split the rhino squad so the ML was in cover with some split devs. Scouts in cover on an objective with the vindi/LRR on 1 side and TFC on another in cover. It came close on 3 objectives but here's the rundown.

The flyrant gave outflanking to the cc fex so it would threaten the edges with the genestealers. The Prime held the venomthrope's hand and gave cover to the 2 units of gaunts and dakka fex. The warriors sat near the flyrant to screen against the DP tac squad.

Warriors ate the DP and melta squad and sat on an objective. Only one saw the end of the game.
The gaunts took all kinds of fire and lasted to turn 3.
The stealers, devgants, and zoans came in on turn 2. The CC fex on turn 3.

Stealers ate the rhino tac with flamer with 2 surviving to claim an objective.
The devgants shot up the TFC and then were Ironclad and shot to death on turn 3.
The cc fex wiped the scouts in cover, popped the vindi and contested an objective.
The zoans popped the LRR, 2 terminators, and 5 marines on an objective; dead on turn 4.
The dakka fex shot a term dead, and with the Prime and venomthrope assaulted He'stan and 4 terms and won.

How?

That pesky flyrant WS/BS them to 1 but was too far to assault as well. The SM had to hit last either from TH or base contact with the LWs and also couldn't hit for jack all. Oh and all died to mass fire on Turn 5/6 (after the Ironclad assaulted the flyrant hoping to stop the paroxysm but died).

It came together really well and in the end all that lived was the warrior, 2 genestealers, and cc fex. He had the tech marine, and maybe 7 marines left. Multiple threats coming in who knows where to last 1-2 turns. I distracted with new targets and made him play at my pace.

My only problem is the gaunts, yes they give cover and distract but it always seems like if I take more bodies, they make CC but don't do anything. If they take AG/tox they can kill in CC but rarely make it. Still, in this game they ate several rounds of firing and choked the fire lanes. That'll do.

Really, if you want your gaunts to hang out on objectives, you are all set, if you want cc, take homries.

Gaunt synapse failure is useful if there is an objective in cover, you dont need to worry about synapse.

? I thought it was termagants and hormagaunts...

Anyway I just meant horms with AG and tox are expensive compared to plain with more bodies.

The flyrant gave outflanking to the cc fex so it would threaten the edges with the genestealers.

Pretty sure you can't use hive commander to outflank a Carnifex. I thought it only worked on troop choices.

Yup. A single unit of Troops may outflank.
Not a single unit, which would include Heavy Support Carnifexes.