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Having about three years of platoon leader time and 2.5 years of company command time, I think I have a tiny understanding of what it means to build a coherent group.

I also think that having been exposed to the very best and some of the vey worst humanity has to offer that I can figure out which category to put folks into pretty quickly.


Jake

Crom wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Crom wrote: You want to set up camp, a fire, and all of that to clean some water, go ahead. I probably will just stalk places and steal people's water with my guns since structures, fires, smoke signals, etc not only attract the undead but they also attract the more dangerous opponent - the living.

With an attitude like that, I suspect you would be one of the first ones put down. You'll never have an trust worthy partner because folks who act like that cannot trust nor be trusted. Operating like that alone will get you hunted and capped by a group that does cooperate and trust each other.

Jake

You actually think you can trust humans in an apocalyptic scenario? If it is a life long friend, sure I can trust them, some random person hell no I am not trusting them. I have had enough bad experiences with humans in our current society let alone one post apocalypse....

You go ahead and trust them, then they run off with all your supplies while you sleep, or worse cut your throat.

Hmm. Well...having actually gone through a post disaster situation ( Katrina), I will attest that there are ample amounts of people on both sides of the fence...
Quite a few folks who will come together and look out for one another and quite a lot of self serving, all about me, get what I can take, opertunist ( who should be shot)...

Now, while the situations may be a bit a different, I do feel that enough people will have a " cover my ass and I'll cover yours" frame of mind to make finding workable " survival groups" possiable.

To be honest, we will all die eventually in a zombie invasion.

I would rather be in a mildly populated zone so I can have some fun before I die.

corpsesarefun wrote:To be honest, we will all die eventually in a zombie invasion.

I would rather be in a mildly populated zone so I can have some fun before I die.

Oh C'mon corpses, no need to feel like we couldn't survive...rise from and eventualy come away better from a zombie apocalypse...look at it as a great purging.

Nah, for me the point in zombies is the inescapable threat.

The slow, easily avoidable but inescapable death that comes due to your own mistakes that zombies bring is a beautiful metaphor for life and so nobody should survive it.

plenty of areas were zombies probably wont ever get to. jungles,deep in forests,etc. and humans live in those areas.

You can't escape death, if you are naive enough to believe you can then you have totally missed the point in zombie films and I blame you for the recent rash of zombie media with happy endings.

FITZZ wrote:

Crom wrote:

CptJake wrote:

Crom wrote: You want to set up camp, a fire, and all of that to clean some water, go ahead. I probably will just stalk places and steal people's water with my guns since structures, fires, smoke signals, etc not only attract the undead but they also attract the more dangerous opponent - the living.

With an attitude like that, I suspect you would be one of the first ones put down. You'll never have an trust worthy partner because folks who act like that cannot trust nor be trusted. Operating like that alone will get you hunted and capped by a group that does cooperate and trust each other.

Jake

You actually think you can trust humans in an apocalyptic scenario? If it is a life long friend, sure I can trust them, some random person hell no I am not trusting them. I have had enough bad experiences with humans in our current society let alone one post apocalypse....

You go ahead and trust them, then they run off with all your supplies while you sleep, or worse cut your throat.

Hmm. Well...having actually gone through a post disaster situation ( Katrina), I will attest that there are ample amounts of people on both sides of the fence...
Quite a few folks who will come together and look out for one another and quite a lot of self serving, all about me, get what I can take, opertunist ( who should be shot)...

Now, while the situations may be a bit a different, I do feel that enough people will have a " cover my ass and I'll cover yours" frame of mind to make finding workable " survival groups" possiable.

Again I think this is not going to be the case. I mean we are talking about post apocalypse right? The land is barren, people are almost dead, think "The Road," where you can trust NO ONE. We aren't talking about some disaster where only a small portion of a country or even the world is affected, we are talking about global apocalypse correct?

This is different than war, different than disasters, this is the end, as in the end of anything. You aren't fighting for your country, an idea, freedom, revolution, etc. You are fighting to survive. Betrayal is unfortunately a human condition that all of us possess, and all of us have a breaking point. Some of us that breaking point is death, we would die before we betray someone else, but other people not so much. When you have nothing to look forward to, I bet a lot of people would just go bat-gak crazy. Then what? Do you kill your friend before they cause irreversible damage to your group if they go crazy? You going to be able to put your best buddies down when they get bitten? What happens when no rations are left to be evenly distributed, you going to all suffer together or is someone going to volunteer to get shafted? You put humans in life or death situation and you will get a dynamic set of results. Some will just keel over and accept death, others will resist, some will go to extreme measures to killing everyone else to save their own skin. No matter how well you know someone, you will not know how they will react in such a situation.

I admit I am playing a devil's advocate role, but I think it is very naive to assume you have this ultimate group that you can just blindly trust, because given the opportunity that person could leave, steal, betray you, or worse if it benefits them in a manner that would ensure their survival.

corpsesarefun wrote:Nah, for me the point in zombies is the inescapable threat.

The slow, easily avoidable but inescapable death that comes due to your own mistakes that zombies bring is a beautiful metaphor for life and so nobody should survive it.

Well...of course ultimantly no one will make it out alive, but that's life isn't it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Crom...

Again this is situational, of course everyone has their breaking point, and of course if you get down to ten people with one can of beans left between them your going to see a lot of ut throat mentality develop...
My perspective is to attempt to not find myself in those situations, ensuring a group is capable of sustaining itself ( Hunting/fishing/growing food) and consisting of those who would be assets rather than burdens...
But of course, if any situation becomes bleak enough I suppose anyone would revert to reptilian thinking.

Reading this thread, made me realize that FITZZ has a wealth of zombie APOC knowledge. Which made me realize that he obviously things about it more then I do (which is alot) So naturally this little skit popped into my head

FITZZ band member 1 : Aww damn guys.... Ive been writing for days and STILL cant think of any good tunes
FITZZ strums a guitar : Well when Zdaaaaaaay comes.... Ill be ready, because Ill have a silo in the grouuuuuuund
FITZZ band member 2 : Christ not this again



FITZZ mom at family get together: Dammit, we burned the hotdogs, anyone got a
FITZZ : Its ok ma, Ive got plenty of those in my Zombie APOC storage locker, I can spare some
FITZZ mom : christ not this again
FITZZ girlfriend : Seriously FITZZ....... I think we should have more kids.....
FITZZ : Yea we do, I wasnt sure who to trust manning the shotgun with door breacher rounds, nice one hunny
FITZZ g/f : christ not this again



Funny how fast things like that go through your head

KingCracker wrote:Reading this thread, made me realize that FITZZ has a wealth of zombie APOC knowledge. Which made me realize that he obviously things about it more then I do (which is alot) So naturally this little skit popped into my head

FITZZ band member 1 : Aww damn guys.... Ive been writing for days and STILL cant think of any good tunes
FITZZ strums a guitar : Well when Zdaaaaaaay comes.... Ill be ready, because Ill have a silo in the grouuuuuuund
FITZZ band member 2 : Christ not this again



FITZZ mom at family get together: Dammit, we burned the hotdogs, anyone got a
FITZZ : Its ok ma, Ive got plenty of those in my Zombie APOC storage locker, I can spare some
FITZZ mom : christ not this again
FITZZ girlfriend : Seriously FITZZ....... I think we should have more kids.....
FITZZ : Yea we do, I wasnt sure who to trust manning the shotgun with door breacher rounds, nice one hunny
FITZZ g/f : christ not this again



Funny how fast things like that go through your head

oh man thats funny. i can see him doing that to after everything ive seen in this thread. also funny how he runs a RP about undead to.

Yea hes got the sickness there. But thats a good thing. I thought my brothers and I have thought of everything so far, but thanks to his wizardry, Ive learned more, which will only prolong my life

KingCracker wrote:Yea hes got the sickness there. But thats a good thing. I thought my brothers and I have thought of everything so far, but thanks to his wizardry, Ive learned more, which will only prolong my life

Exactly...

What's funny is that your skits weren't to far from true...I've found myself involved in " zombie conversations" and mussing over different " What if's" at some very odd times...at work with co-workers, Thanksgiving diner...once while waiting to board a plane ( this was with a complette stranger.)....yeah, I suppose zombies do factor heavily in my thought process....

Also, My Missus and I actually have had a " Zombies and the kids" talk...which started because I want to teach my Son how to shoot...

Her: He's to young...
Me: I was younger than he is when my Uncle first taught me to shoot a gun..
Her: I don't care...he's still to young.
Me: Fine...when the zombies show up don't say I didn't try to prepare him...
Her: You need therapy...

EDIT:....

The Missus and I also had a fairly interesting " discussion" over these...

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/listing.php?ref=search_header&search=the+dead

Her: " You want to spend almost three hundred dollars for zombie Barbie dolls..?"
Me : " They're not Barbie dolls...look at them...they're cool as hell."
Her : " it's a bunch of dead Ken dolls...overpriced dead Ken dolls."
Me: " You just don't get it..."
Her: " I get that you need therapy...forget about the dead Barbies...go paint some of your little men."

FITZZ wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:Nah, for me the point in zombies is the inescapable threat.

The slow, easily avoidable but inescapable death that comes due to your own mistakes that zombies bring is a beautiful metaphor for life and so nobody should survive it.

Well...of course ultimantly no one will make it out alive, but that's life isn't it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Crom...

Again this is situational, of course everyone has their breaking point, and of course if you get down to ten people with one can of beans left between them your going to see a lot of ut throat mentality develop...
My perspective is to attempt to not find myself in those situations, ensuring a group is capable of sustaining itself ( Hunting/fishing/growing food) and consisting of those who would be assets rather than burdens...
But of course, if any situation becomes bleak enough I suppose anyone would revert to reptilian thinking.

Yeah that is why I said we need to define apocalypse, since in the sense of the word it means the end of everything. No resources abundant and/or clean for you to use/consume. The places that are able to sustain life are either going to be very harsh, remote, or possibly already claimed. Zombies will eventually be everywhere, according to the zombie survival guide.

You find a fishing pond and you fish on it with out over fishing it. That way the fish reproduce and you can live and the fish can sustain, but other survivors also find it or the undead show up. I mean I can think of 100s of places to go to fish and live off the land with in a 300 mile radius of where I live, which means there are thousands, or tens of thousands (perhaps 100s of thousands) of people besides me that also know this.

Then again when the gak hits the fan, most likely most giant cities will succumb.

Crom wrote:

FITZZ wrote:

corpsesarefun wrote:Nah, for me the point in zombies is the inescapable threat.

The slow, easily avoidable but inescapable death that comes due to your own mistakes that zombies bring is a beautiful metaphor for life and so nobody should survive it.

Well...of course ultimantly no one will make it out alive, but that's life isn't it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ Crom...

Again this is situational, of course everyone has their breaking point, and of course if you get down to ten people with one can of beans left between them your going to see a lot of ut throat mentality develop...
My perspective is to attempt to not find myself in those situations, ensuring a group is capable of sustaining itself ( Hunting/fishing/growing food) and consisting of those who would be assets rather than burdens...
But of course, if any situation becomes bleak enough I suppose anyone would revert to reptilian thinking.

Yeah that is why I said we need to define apocalypse, since in the sense of the word it means the end of everything. No resources abundant and/or clean for you to use/consume. The places that are able to sustain life are either going to be very harsh, remote, or possibly already claimed. Zombies will eventually be everywhere, according to the zombie survival guide.

You find a fishing pond and you fish on it with out over fishing it. That way the fish reproduce and you can live and the fish can sustain, but other survivors also find it or the undead show up. I mean I can think of 100s of places to go to fish and live off the land with in a 300 mile radius of where I live, which means there are thousands, or tens of thousands (perhaps 100s of thousands) of people besides me that also know this.

Then again when the gak hits the fan, most likely most giant cities will succumb.

Yeah, perhaps an exact definition is in order, as for the most part the discussion is centering around " outbreak/ uprising" and not a total " everything is gone/collapse."..
Now, having read ZSG and WWZ repeatedly, it seems to me that both books , though " Apocalyptic", focus a great deal on mankind overcoming and surviving the hordes of zombies ( though of course much of humanity doesn't make it.)...

In most of the scenerios I muse about, I think along lines of survival...what would be the best way(s) of ensuring existance, both of myself and family, and of the species as well....
But again, even I'll admit that of course situations may arise in which your simply damned if you do and damned if you don't....in which case ..I'd opt to go out fighting.

in which case ..I'd opt to go out fighting.

Hooah. When it comes down to that, how many of them can I make die will be the number that counts. The lives of my family and myself (and I include close friends as family) are not cheap. I'm going to get a high price if at all possible. The trick is to make that price too high to be worth while.

Call me an optimist, but as Katrina and other disasters have pointed out, at least some number of folks will band together and do their best to make it through. Read One Second After http://www.amazon.com/One-Second-After-William-Forstchen/dp/0765356864/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309690430&sr=8-1 or Patriots http://www.amazon.com/Patriots-Surviving-James-Wesley-Rawles/dp/156975599X/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b . Both deal with pretty major collapses of society, though not with Zombies. Fantastic books.

I really do recommend staying the hell away from bases, if the bases don't get overrun their most likely going to be packed to the brim with families of those stationed there. And not to mention, your not getting into one of those Armories/Arms Rooms. Even if you knew where to look.

There is a reason every building looks the same (and is normally that ugly shade of brown) it's so people don't know where the important buildings are at, or where items are kept.

You'd be better off with a Police Station, though I don't really condone looting unless everyone is really and truly dead (like say 28 Days) and not to mention, once the initial shock is over the Federal .Gov will have their plans.

Though, be for I got out of the military I actually created a Zombie Outbreak checklist, we use them for everything (I was a Cop/Security) I named it something ridiculous like NecoRegenerative Viral Containment Failure I slipped it in the book my last day right near the ones on what to do if a Nuke get's stolen and things like that.

I wonder if anyone has found it yet....

Army bases will be more likely to attract zombie swarms due to all the noise they will be making, meaning the surrounding area will be much more dangerous. If you have an urban base, you could perhaps use this to your advantage by making shelter in the surrounding buildings and hope that the noise and activity of the base covers your of your own.

Though this is obviously a dangerous tactic.

And that if you get found you can get help from the base/seek shelter there

I still think we should build an airship and a fortified camp, i even thought about water, we dig abig well
we need:
5 farmers to maintain the Farm within the walls
1 leader/lead engineer to manage the whole thing
3 builders/engineers to build the houses and the airship
5 good shooters for true soldiering the rest can act as militia
1 teacher to teach new kids everything
1 docter (duh)
about 5 airship crew to man the Blimp/airship for supplies unobtainable at farm
law enforcement
and 20 versatile people to help with whatever's neccesary.

then we need:
a wall
Police/headquarters
landing pad
airship
housing/huts/shelter
big farmfields
well(s)

the plan is to build this in a big open area build from local scrap, rig tents and metal to an airship we can use for travel and looting neccesary supplies without getting overzombied(see earlier post)
then get farms with seeds to start new food production build housing from wood/scrapmetal and stones and a townhall for registering storing and law enforcement.
plus a landing zone for the airship.

You forgot Nurses and Med Techs

And I have 8 years of Military doing Law Enforcement, did Perimeter Security and Construction (weird I know) in Afghanistan, ran Convoys in Iraq, and am now a Nursing student. I also reload my own ammo and shoot alot in my free time which slot do I get to fill?

Sckitzo wrote:You forgot Nurses and Med Techs

And I have 8 years of Military doing Law Enforcement, did Perimeter Security and Construction (weird I know) in Afghanistan, ran Convoys in Iraq, and am now a Nursing student. I also reload my own ammo and shoot alot in my free time which slot do I get to fill?

which do you want?

I suppose I better pick, otherwise I'll show up and you guys are gonna go
"Wait, ain't you that cocky prick?"
"Ermm, no no, you see what happened was..."
"Your the new outhouse cleaner! Here is your tooth brush, ohh and tonight is chili night"

Sckitzo wrote:I suppose I better pick, otherwise I'll show up and you guys are gonna go
"Wait, ain't you that cocky prick?"
"Ermm, no no, you see what happened was..."
"Your the new outhouse cleaner! Here is your tooth brush, ohh and tonight is chili night"

your just lucky i dont like chili

Juniperius wrote:I still think we should build an airship and a fortified camp, i even thought about water, we dig abig well
we need:
5 farmers to maintain the Farm within the walls
1 leader/lead engineer to manage the whole thing
3 builders/engineers to build the houses and the airship
5 good shooters for true soldiering the rest can act as militia
1 teacher to teach new kids everything
1 docter (duh)
about 5 airship crew to man the Blimp/airship for supplies unobtainable at farm
law enforcement
and 20 versatile people to help with whatever's neccesary.

then we need:
a wall
Police/headquarters
landing pad
airship
housing/huts/shelter
big farmfields
well(s)

the plan is to build this in a big open area build from local scrap, rig tents and metal to an airship we can use for travel and looting neccesary supplies without getting overzombied(see earlier post)
then get farms with seeds to start new food production build housing from wood/scrapmetal and stones and a townhall for registering storing and law enforcement.
plus a landing zone for the airship.

Still not convinced about the usage of airships, seems like more trouble than their worth, a few transport helicopters could be used for much of the same things you'd utilize airships for, with out all the hassle...but that's just my opinion.

As far as your " duty rouster", I personally believe that everyone within the "complex/base" should have a working knowledge of farming/hunting/fishing/ shooting/ engine repair/ construction/ basic first aid, then you would have your specialist who oversee each needed posistion ( Doctor(s).Mechanics,Farmers, etc).
Don't see much use for a "police force", though a security team makes sense.

FITZZ wrote:

Still not convinced about the usage of airships, seems like more trouble than their worth, a few transport helicopters could be used for much of the same things you'd utilize airships for, with out all the hassle...but that's just my opinion.

As far as your " duty rouster", I personally believe that everyone within the "complex/base" should have a working knowledge of farming/hunting/fishing/ shooting/ engine repair/ construction/ basic first aid, then you would have your specialist who oversee each needed posistion ( Doctor(s).Mechanics,Farmers, etc).
Don't see much use for a "police force", though a security team makes sense.

not actual police just a law system, You always need law and order.
I like your plan on the roster.
and ivé told you an airship can run on any inflammable wreckage while a helicopter needs fuel that's gonna run out soon since helicopetrs use lots of fuel.
plus an airship is silent and has more capacity for goods and people. You know the noise a helicoper makes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Sckitzo wrote:You forgot Nurses and Med Techs

And I have 8 years of Military doing Law Enforcement, did Perimeter Security and Construction (weird I know) in Afghanistan, ran Convoys in Iraq, and am now a Nursing student. I also reload my own ammo and shoot alot in my free time which slot do I get to fill?

good here's a gun, now get to work!!
guess what job i would like?

How is an airship silent?

If it has engines to spin props to guide it it makes noise. Or are you intending to be completely at the mercy of the wind and weather? If so, you are gonna be screwed.

Jake

CptJake wrote:How is an airship silent?

If it has engines to spin props to guide it it makes noise. Or are you intending to be completely at the mercy of the wind and weather? If so, you are gonna be screwed.

Jake

Sorry i typed that wrong i meant it is relatively more silent than a helicopter.

In a post apocalyptic world, any engine running is gonna be noticed. In a world where folks shoot at you, an airship makes a big, slow target.

I think I would prefer to stay on foot or on the horses.

Jake

CptJake wrote:In a post apocalyptic world, any engine running is gonna be noticed. In a world where folks shoot at you, an airship makes a big, slow target.

I think I would prefer to stay on foot or on the horses.

Jake

people don't shoot at you for random reasons, why would they?
but against gunfire it's quite weak, I must agree.
You have just been promoted to head master of the cavalry.
you canm get lightweight supplies,

Just now thought it, our airship could also fly on garbage

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
— Robert A. Heinlein

As for Helo's, I disagree, a small commercial bird, takes about $1,000 USD to operate, per hour. And not to mention, the insane amount of maintenance one takes to run, even assuming you had a pilot. You start getting into military class birds such as the Pave-Low, your talking about $10,000 per flight hour.

And, fuel will be worthless 3-6mo after it's produced, you may get 12, 18 at the most with a stabilizer such as Stabil. Alternate fuels are going to be a must unless you plan on refining your own crude.