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Puscifer wrote:Does anyone else have any idea on if the current models will be valid? Like the Warriors/Destroyers/Scarabs? If they are, I will be re-doing my army as I found a FLGS that is having a massive sale on some of the 40k stuff that never sells - I.E Necrons, Sisters and Eldar.

GW rarely makes things completely unusable. At worst you'll end up with a "Looted Wagon" kind of situation, where your old model will still be represented in the army, just used as something somewhat different.

Ok, I haven't read this whole thread but all I can say is that even with the change to WBB (or whatever it's called now) they're still going to be pansies in CC unless they have some crazy rules that help them out with that.

Rather I should say, the change to WBB does not help them with their current Achilles heel.

Also, flayed ones are Elites now so I don't know why everyone is "bummed" about that and why it was needing to be pointed out as if it's a new thing.

Immortals as troops will of course eclipse warriors but they'll be more expensive so you can't field as many (just like it is now).

Everyone griping about fielding "squads of c'tan", did you see that they're only units of 1 and that you probably can only take 1 per army anyway but either way you'd only get to take 3 max in a standard game and I'm SURE there's other elites that will compete for their spot.

I agree on the transport bit though, if true, a little bummed and just a bit "too much like everything else". All told though, if these are true then I'm pleased with what I'm hearing and looking forward to the release.

Oh, as for pariahs "not being a unit choice", perhaps they're an upgrade to certain squads or a model you can add as a bonus. They just can't "disappear" from the army though.

Pacific wrote:What surprises me most, perhaps more than anything else, is that we have got to page 11 of this thread and no-one has noticed the obvious.

That GW has basically copied an 80's cartoon (Thundercats) for the naming of it's new 'ever living' rule

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umU8vKRNnRw

Look up the first episode of thundercats, it'll blow your mind.

I think part of the problem with all this is that I, and I suspect many of you, have an idea in my head of what Necrons -should- be.

Ancient. Implacable. Technology that bends physics over a table; teleporting, phasing through matter/armor/force fields, time manipulation. Slow in combat (by default; Wraiths should be fast, Flayed Ones not too slow), but resilient enough that it's a struggle to put them down before they get to strike. Slow to move (again, by default; the troops not specifically designed to be fast, and their vehicles) when moving manually, and no transports to hop into to cruise around to fix that, but instead being able to teleport at times. Difficult to hurt, and difficult to keep down, with high toughness, good saves, and rules like WBB and Living Metal. They should make a mockery of the technology of the lesser races, everything from Living Metal to Disruption Fields and Gauss to Warscythes. C'Tan (or their vessels/avatars/heralds/etc) should be ridiculously difficult to kill, and murder just about anything in close combat, but again be slow and implacable, making an area of the battlefield around them just too dangerous to be in; you should be able to run from them if you're paying attention and moving right, but you should also almost -have- to run from them. No psychic powers, and, given their ancient enmity with the Old Ones and their minions, having several ways to mess with psychers.

The problem is that our idea of what Necrons -should- be doesn't necessarily mesh with what GW thinks they should be. Not terribly surprising, given the lack of a ton of source material we have to work with, but still disappointing. Like playing the demo of a video game, liking it, buying the real version, and finding that after the first couple levels the gameplay changes drastically; the game isn't 'wrong', it just isn't quite what we were expecting or necessarily wanted.

I love the phasing thing. I love the teleportation. I love the C'Tan. I like the way WBB works now (more or less). I like that I don't get metal boxes to ride around in, but that I have alternatives.
Might GW change all that? Sure. Are they allowed to? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's what I'm looking for, and while it may be great for people just getting into Necrons, since they didn't play that video game demo and didn't have preconceptions of what things 'should' be like, the problem is that if you change something like this too drastically from how it was, you alienate the people who got into it for the way it was. Like a band changing music styles; it's their prerogative, but it may not sit well with their already established fans.

Of course, we haven't seen more than a scrap of how things are going to be, or even if these rumors are accurate. This is all just in response to the way things seem to be pointing.

We'll see.


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Kevin949 wrote:Immortals as troops will of course eclipse warriors but they'll be more expensive so you can't field as many (just like it is now).

Craziness! It's like if you had some army where both Marines in Power Armor and Terminators were Troops choices!

...oh, wait...

I've been lurking and following these Necron threads. I'm genuinely very interested in a lot of units being redone in plastic, and from the sounds of the rumours, more variance in what you can run in competitive games

I can understand why people are not happy with the idea of transports and other large scale changes going on. I believe that considering how little fluff there is currently, we haven't had much other than the 3rd ed codex, and it has just enough to set a base back story, so people over time have filled in all the gaps themselves, and have their own idea of what Necron's are or should be.

Considering the age of the current codex, I am expecting large changes. Some people are going to hate this, as it destroys their idea of what Necrons should be.

I'm preparing myself for this change and will do my best to be receptive of it, the fluff will no doubt get an injection of over the top, but I'm looking forward to rules written to work with the current edition battle rule book.

EDIT; I think Nightbringers Chosen has the same idea as me, the lack of existing fluff and backround leads to people filling the gap with their own conceptions.

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:I think part of the problem with all this is that I, and I suspect many of you, have an idea in my head of what Necrons -should- be.

Ancient. Implacable. Technology that bends physics over a table; teleporting, phasing through matter/armor/force fields, time manipulation. Slow in combat (by default; Wraiths should be fast, Flayed Ones not too slow), but resilient enough that it's a struggle to put them down before they get to strike. Slow to move (again, by default; the troops not specifically designed to be fast, and their vehicles) when moving manually, and no transports to hop into to cruise around to fix that, but instead being able to teleport at times. Difficult to hurt, and difficult to keep down, with high toughness, good saves, and rules like WBB and Living Metal. They should make a mockery of the technology of the lesser races, everything from Living Metal to Disruption Fields and Gauss to Warscythes. C'Tan (or their vessels/avatars/heralds/etc) should be ridiculously difficult to kill, and murder just about anything in close combat, but again be slow and implacable, making an area of the battlefield around them just too dangerous to be in; you should be able to run from them if you're paying attention and moving right, but you should also almost -have- to run from them. No psychic powers, and, given their ancient enmity with the Old Ones and their minions, having several ways to mess with psychers.

The problem is that our idea of what Necrons -should- be doesn't necessarily mesh with what GW thinks they should be. Not terribly surprising, given the lack of a ton of source material we have to work with, but still disappointing. Like playing the demo of a video game, liking it, buying the real version, and finding that after the first couple levels the gameplay changes drastically; the game isn't 'wrong', it just isn't quite what we were expecting or necessarily wanted.

I love the phasing thing. I love the teleportation. I love the C'Tan. I like the way WBB works now (more or less). I like that I don't get metal boxes to ride around in, but that I have alternatives.
Might GW change all that? Sure. Are they allowed to? Absolutely. Doesn't mean it's what I'm looking for, and while it may be great for people just getting into Necrons, since they didn't play that video game demo and didn't have preconceptions of what things 'should' be like, the problem is that if you change something like this too drastically from how it was, you alienate the people who got into it for the way it was. Like a band changing music styles; it's their prerogative, but it may not sit well with their already established fans.

Of course, we haven't seen more than a scrap of how things are going to be, or even if these rumors are accurate. This is all just in response to the way things seem to be pointing.

We'll see.


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Kevin949 wrote:Immortals as troops will of course eclipse warriors but they'll be more expensive so you can't field as many (just like it is now).

Craziness! It's like if you had some army where both Marines in Power Armor and Terminators were Troops choices!

...oh, wait...

Sectiplave wrote:I've been lurking and following these Necron threads. I'm genuinely very interested in a lot of units being redone in plastic, and from the sounds of the rumours, more variance in what you can run in competitive games

I can understand why people are not happy with the idea of transports and other large scale changes going on. I believe that considering how little fluff there is currently, we haven't had much other than the 3rd ed codex, and it has just enough to set a base back story, so people over time have filled in all the gaps themselves, and have their own idea of what Necron's are or should be.

Considering the age of the current codex, I am expecting large changes. Some people are going to hate this, as it destroys their idea of what Necrons should be.

I'm preparing myself for this change and will do my best to be receptive of it, the fluff will no doubt get an injection of over the top, but I'm looking forward to rules written to work with the current edition battle rule book.

EDIT; I think Nightbringers Chosen has the same idea as me, the lack of existing fluff and backround leads to people filling the gap with their own conceptions.

Well said you two.

I don't like the idea of getting much in the way of traditional metal boxes, but the rest doesn't sound too bad to me, especially the Destroyers as Jump Infantry.

Aduro wrote:I don't like the idea of getting much in the way of traditional metal boxes, but the rest doesn't sound too bad to me, especially the Destroyers as Jump Infantry.

I love those jump Necrons. Very beetle like wings/packs. Seems... fitting.

I don't know what all the fuss is about transports. It was a natural evolution for the Necrons since GW refuses to right good rules for Deep Strike and alternate forms of deployment (with the exception of DoA).

Without transports Necrons would be forced to rely on other forms of movement/faster units to combat the increased mobility of every other army in the game, which is basically their problem right now.

I would have loved to see Necron Pylons instead of normal transports, something that would Deep Strike but otherwise be Immobile and then be able to teleport other Necrons to it like a Monolith does. Have Warriors buy them as a "dedicated transport" but then allow any unit to benefit from them. Gives you a solid reason to field multiple Warrior units even with Immortals as Troops.

But yeah, more different ways to get around rather than riding in metal boxes.

Is it too early to start taking bets on what prefix word Ward's gonna use for every weapon in the book, or is 'Gauss' too obvious?

Will their new walker (on an oval base) get Gauss Fists?

H.B.M.C. wrote:Will their new walker (on an oval base) get Gauss Fists?

Gaussian Tombfists!

Tombfists! Ah! I like it.

You're off to a good start bolo.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Is it too early to start taking bets on what prefix word Ward's gonna use for every weapon in the book, or is 'Gauss' too obvious?

Will their new walker (on an oval base) get Gauss Fists?

My bets are on Necro
Necrofists, Necroscythe,Necro-orb, Necro Missile, Necro riffles, Necro bullets,Necrostaff, Necro sword

I still think nothing I could come up with can beat the Bloodstrike Missile though

Asuron wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Is it too early to start taking bets on what prefix word Ward's gonna use for every weapon in the book, or is 'Gauss' too obvious?

Will their new walker (on an oval base) get Gauss Fists?

My bets are on Necro
Necrofists, Necroscythe,Necro-orb, Necro Missile, Necro riffles, Necro bullets,Necrostaff, Necro sword

I still think nothing I could come up with can beat the Bloodstrike Missile though

Nemesis Doomfist beats all. It actually has two uber words in it, Nemesis and Doom. Only way to do better would be to add something for an upgraded version, like Empowered Nemesis Doomfist or Wrathful Nemesis Doomfist.

I'm betting Necrogauss -
Necrogauss Rifle,
Necrogauss Blaster,
Necrogauss Skincream (tired of flaky skin - replace it with new Necrogauss - guarateed never to have flaky skin {or indeed skin!} for all eternity!)

and of course :Necrogaussdoomfists

I hope they don't get transports. I don't want another mech MEQ army. I got into necrons because they didn't have tanks. I wanted a phalanx...

Phototoxin wrote:
I hope they don't get transports. I don't want another mech MEQ army. I got into necrons because they didn't have tanks. I wanted a phalanx...

No other MEQ army has fast open-topped skimmers, so its really not going to be the same regardless.

And even with transport vehicles, that doesn't necessarily mean you won't be able to play a walking phalanx. Most codexes have several competitive builds these days and its entirely possible that one of the builds that works won't utilize the new-fangled transport vehicles.

Therion wrote:

Asuron wrote:I still think nothing I could come up with can beat the Bloodstrike Missile though

Nemesis Doomfist beats all. It actually has two uber words in it, Nemesis and Doom.

When I first heard about the Nemesis Doomfist, I was really hoping that the Bloodstrike Missiles on the Grey Knight Chibi-Hawk would be 'Nemesis Doomstrike Missiles'. Sadly that wasn't to be...

Maybe they'll be a whole range of names used for special wargear and weapons in keeping with Gauss and Tesla

Minkowski Mines? - they blow up again, and again, and...
Riemannian Reaper? - awesome CC weapon that curves space round the victim to squish them...
Venn's Vortex? - Place a small blast template and roll for scatter, then place a second directly over where it lands. Roll for scatter again and see what lies under where the templates overlap. Any (non-vehicle) model is removed from play...

Necron uber-advanced-tech: borrowing from M2 Terran mathematicians since 002M3!!!

Fast skimmers coudl be good couped with the portal entrance mentioned above.

You move your fast skimmer, then you can bring on a unit from reserves through the portal on it.

I would be very happy with that tbh.

* * * Newbie, Newbie, Newbie * * *

I don't see why Necrons need a transport (other than the lith). The only reason I can see why an army needs a transport is to add some protection to the troops as they roll in to assault the enemy. I've only played four 40k games so far with my crons but I just don't see me intentionally trying to assault anyone. And being in a transport (closed) just makes you an easier target if it's a chimera or rhino equivalent. Open topped might help a little for shooting but still you're awfully susceptible to taking damage when the transports blown to pieces. I'm sticking with my liths for transportation. Unless it's a really cool model and costs nothing to field....

Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.

Ascalam wrote:special rule:

Favourite enemy: Marines

Actually, that makes some sense. If you try to think in the twisted paranoid mindset of the Imperium, not having a counter to the Space Marines (Who do, after all, have a large history of going over to the Enemy) makes sense. There's just not enough Custodes, and they're needed to guard the Emperor, so Sisters make a lot of sense as the go-to if a Chapter needs to be 'punished.' Inquisitor Bob can't use another Chapter unless there's clear signs of Chaos or risk the 'infection' spreading (especially if the 'infection' is a chapter of Space Marines that just wants to do things their own way) as the Space Marines are too likely to side with their brothers... But the Sisters are likely a lot less questioning.

Now, it's not going to be clean. I'd figure you'd want a minimum of a 10-1 ratio of Sisters to Space Marines to take out a group of Space Marines in a fortified position, but that's better than a 1,000-1 you'd probably want for Guard...

I kind of wish they'd lose some of the excesses of the Witch Hunters release. I liked the idea that as of the Chapter Approved list they were actually one of the more practical-looking armies in some ways... C:WH added a lot of flaming backpacks and other weirdness.

Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.

I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.

No Pariahs == fail

Tacobake wrote:No Pariahs == fail

I know this is a little off topic but...how do you use pariahs? I'm leery of them due to the lack of the necron rule - which is funny since I own 4 anyway. I like everything else about them (except for the cost, A and I).

Nightbringer's Chosen wrote:

Puscifer wrote:Does anyone else have any idea on if the current models will be valid? Like the Warriors/Destroyers/Scarabs? If they are, I will be re-doing my army as I found a FLGS that is having a massive sale on some of the 40k stuff that never sells - I.E Necrons, Sisters and Eldar.

GW rarely makes things completely unusable. At worst you'll end up with a "Looted Wagon" kind of situation, where your old model will still be represented in the army, just used as something somewhat different.

Sisters and Necrons are both getting re-released soon. Eldar had some models done last summer, but for what ever reason it doesn't look like they are getting a release any time soon. Maybe after 6th? Maybe your flgs guy knows this and is selling his old stock?

Balance wrote:

Ascalam wrote:special rule:

Favourite enemy: Marines

Actually, that makes some sense. If you try to think in the twisted paranoid mindset of the Imperium, not having a counter to the Space Marines (Who do, after all, have a large history of going over to the Enemy) makes sense. There's just not enough Custodes, and they're needed to guard the Emperor, so Sisters make a lot of sense as the go-to if a Chapter needs to be 'punished.' Inquisitor Bob can't use another Chapter unless there's clear signs of Chaos or risk the 'infection' spreading (especially if the 'infection' is a chapter of Space Marines that just wants to do things their own way) as the Space Marines are too likely to side with their brothers... But the Sisters are likely a lot less questioning.

Now, it's not going to be clean. I'd figure you'd want a minimum of a 10-1 ratio of Sisters to Space Marines to take out a group of Space Marines in a fortified position, but that's better than a 1,000-1 you'd probably want for Guard...

I kind of wish they'd lose some of the excesses of the Witch Hunters release. I liked the idea that as of the Chapter Approved list they were actually one of the more practical-looking armies in some ways... C:WH added a lot of flaming backpacks and other weirdness.

Read the history in Codex: Space wolves. It talks about sisters making the mistake of fighting space marines. (Granted there are ALOT more space wolves then most normal chapters have, people wise.)

edowney wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.

I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.

Good point. I dont tend to use VOD simply becuase my luck with scatter dice is notoriously bad, and i only have one 'Lith so can't pop stuff aroudn as much as i probably should.

edowney wrote:

Praxiss wrote:Transports basically enable you to move your army to capture objectives a little more safely. Especially with all the high S weapons out there, a foot slogging army can be very difficult to win with, especially when they are as slow as 'crons.

I see your point about objective capturing. However I disagree with you on necrons being slow. I think they're quite fast, actually. Only a couple of units are slow - ctan, pariah and tomb spiders. Everyone else can either VoD or be transported by deep striking liths. Kind of makes us double fast. Most people are probably thinking about skimmers and fast vehicles. Stuff just magically moving around the table must throw a monkey wrench in to a competitors battle plan.

The thing is that if you do play Warhammer 40k game, either friendly or tournament environment, for a while, you would get the idea how unsafe it could be to DS a unit into the midth of fighting without any enhancement like locator beacon or droppod rule, especially in the case of holding/contesting objectives. In the 5th edition environment, an army like necron without transport could be slaughtered: either with a ton of firepower when you are moving along on foot or mishap to death...


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Praxiss wrote: I dont tend to use VOD simply becuase my luck with scatter dice is notoriously bad, and i only have one 'Lith so can't pop stuff aroudn as much as i probably should.

Especially that.


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yakface wrote:
3) We'll be Back is no longer called that and it is NOT Feel No Pain. Basically it is a 5+ bonus save similar to Feel No Pain, but doesn't get cancelled out by double strength, AP1/2, etc. In addition, this save is made at the END of the phase after morale tests are taken. If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase, then the save cannot be used. So as an opponent, if you manage to wipe the unit out or make them fall back, then you prevent any Necrons from getting back up...unless the unit has something called the 'ever-living' rule, in which case it gets to attempt this save even if the unit is wiped out.

So with that, Can I assume that the fearless rule for "necron" models is gone also? "If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase"

ryanstartalker wrote:

So with that, Can I assume that the fearless rule for "necron" models is gone also? "If the unit is wiped out or is falling back at the end of the phase"

That never existed in the first place.