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The strength of the Tau is not really relevant, as long as mundane means can destroy a greater daemon, then greater mundane means can destroy a greater greater daemon.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:It is almost like you are ignoring the part where you STILL HAVEN'T SHOWN A DAEMON LORD DESTROYED BY PHYSICAL MEANS.

Also, You still haven't shown a greater daemon who has fully materialized been destroyed by physical means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKOhzfkCdbY&feature=fvwrel skip to 4:05 A Leman russ would just stub it's toe.

What? Who cares? A Greater Daemon was killed by a Leman Russ. A Daemon Lord is just an arbitrary term for the strongest Greater Daemons. They have no magical special plot barrier by having a long name that makes them 100% immune to things that outright obliterate other Greater Daemons.

Give it up.

Keeper of Secrets ANNIHILATED by a mundane explosion. No "not fully materialized" bull gak, it was a full on KoS.


EDIT: And WTF, that video is EXACTLY what could be killed by a Leman Russ exploding. A full on Keeper of Secrets was obliterated from the physical world entirely by a stack of leman russ shells. A Lord of Change would die exactly the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

warpgrenade wrote:

Harrower wrote:
The Culture.

One GCV and dziet + drone could take down the whole shebang.

I will not argue that SupCom or 40k would stand a chance against The Culture. The Culture is a pretty damn high power level.

Except Scarbrand was so powerful he challenged his god. Also, Yes, it does. Everytime they have been summoned, they have taken entire sectors before the grey knights found them and ended it. Except for An'ggrath the unlucky, he just happened to be summoned on a world that happened to have an inquisitor lord and 100 grey knight termies.

And it had spawned about 4 seconds before attacking the tank.

And the explosion would only reach it's leg. Those things are HUGE.

Though I admit the culture MIGHT stand a chance.

im2randomghgh wrote:Except Scarbrand was so powerful he challenged his god. Also, Yes, it does. Everytime they have been summoned, they have taken entire sectors before the grey knights found them and ended it. Except for An'ggrath the unlucky, he just happened to be summoned on a world that happened to have an inquisitor lord and 100 grey knight termies.

And it had spawned about 4 seconds before attacking the tank.

And the explosion would only reach it's leg. Those things are HUGE.

Though I admit the culture MIGHT stand a chance.

The fact that you think The Culture only "might" have a chance just goes to show how 100% insane you are. If The Culture's victory over 40k is even a question to you, I honestly am unsure that you are capable of the level of rational thought necessary to continue participating in this thread.

Who cares if Skarbrand was so powerful he put a tiny chink in Khorne's armor?

Greater Daemon is Greater Daemon. A Greater Daemon was destroyed by a Leman Russ. Greater Daemons are thusly destroyable by mundane means.

I don't care how much you say "But this greater daemon is weally weally stwong! There is no way he would die look at how good he is compared to the other things in 40k!"

The Imperium only destroys the strongest Greater Daemons with Grey Knights because The Imperium does not have mundane forces strong enough or mobile enough to destroy them before they wreak havoc on worlds


Supreme Commander not only DOES have mundane means strong enough, but they are capable of deploying them in quantities so vast that for every Bloodletter in a daemonic horde, the ACU could control a titan-sized battle machine capable of destroying hundreds of such bloodletters.

You whine that a Leman Russ explosion would not be strong enough to destroy a Greater Daemon, but it is set in fluff, in black and white, a 100% indisputable fact of 40k. There is no "luckily the daemon was weakened so it was just barely driven off by the explosion", the Keeper of Secrets is FULL ON ANNIHILATED.

Mundane weapon of power X destroys Greater Daemon.
Therefore Mundane weapon of power X+Y destroys more powerful Greater Daemon.
SupCom's power level is Z, a number so vastly larger than X+Y would ever be for the case of a Greater Daemon, Daemon Lord, or whatever else fancy name you want to give it, that SupCom could destroy said daemonic forces with a standard contingent.

Harrower wrote:
It's got over a MILLION worlds to draw from. thats just......huge.

there are 1,000 chapters of 1,000 marines each

=1,000,000 marines

(cant remember where this is from, but it is either space marine codex or rulebook): "there is less than one space marine for every million worlds in the imperium"

1,000,000X1,000,000=

1,000,000,000,000 worlds

these SC, or whatever, seem insanely overpowered, enough so to win, but even by eating through the imperium at an exponential rate, it would take a long, long time

CthuluIsSpy wrote:Only 14m? That's small for a titan.

thats just about 5 floors tall, its just that, with such large numbers flying around all the time, 14 doesent sound too big.

@ph34r:

Why you always so rude to me? You seem to pick out every statement I bring up.
You call people fanboys for enjoying 40k... yet you post on DAKKA DAKKA!
I don't need to disprove anything you brought up. This is a thread based on an opinion.
These are both fictional worlds with sciences that cannot be compared to our world.
I say Imperium is unstoppable. Nothing can change my opinion.

Sorry man, but due to the constant rudeness and all-around immaturity of your responces I'm gonna have to toss you in the ignore bin.
You're the only person here who habitually harasses the other posters with that "I read this so I'm right" attitude.
Peace.

DeffDred wrote:Why you always so rude to me? You seem to pick out every statement I bring up.

I pick out every illogical statement that everyone brings up. You ignore all logic and reasoning, yet post in a thread based on the concept of comparing two universes. You have no place in this thread with your attitude, sorry. Even im2randomhghg pretends to use logical points, even if he makes them up rather than sourcing them from background.

DeffDred wrote:You call people fanboys for enjoying 40k... yet you post on DAKKA DAKKA!

I love 40k. That does not mean that I will ignore facts and reason when presented with argument. That is the difference between you and I.

DeffDred wrote:I don't need to disprove anything you brought up. This is a thread based on an opinion.

Opinions are founded on facts. If I had the opinion that the Emperor was in fact a Kroot, you would probably be pretty shocked by how wrong I was. If I paraded my "Emperor is a kroot" stance all around every thread you posted in about the Emperor, you would probably be pretty pissed. That is how bad you are, "The Imperium beats everything nah nah nah can't hear you" is not an opinion based on fact, it is an opinion based on fanboyness.

DeffDred wrote:These are both fictional worlds with sciences that cannot be compared to our world.

Wrong. As long as something follows internal logic, it can be compared against something else that follows internal logic.

DeffDred wrote:I say Imperium is unstoppable. Nothing can change my opinion.

Why are you posting here then?


EDIT: Here's the short version if that is too TLDR for you.

DeffDred wrote:Why you always so rude to me? You seem to pick out every statement I bring up.

DeffDred wrote:I say Imperium is unstoppable. Nothing can change my opinion.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:Except Scarbrand was so powerful he challenged his god. Also, Yes, it does. Everytime they have been summoned, they have taken entire sectors before the grey knights found them and ended it. Except for An'ggrath the unlucky, he just happened to be summoned on a world that happened to have an inquisitor lord and 100 grey knight termies.

And it had spawned about 4 seconds before attacking the tank.

And the explosion would only reach it's leg. Those things are HUGE.

Though I admit the culture MIGHT stand a chance.

The fact that you think The Culture only "might" have a chance just goes to show how 100% insane you are. If The Culture's victory over 40k is even a question to you, I honestly am unsure that you are capable of the level of rational thought necessary to continue participating in this thread.

Who cares if Skarbrand was so powerful he put a tiny chink in Khorne's armor?

Greater Daemon is Greater Daemon. A Greater Daemon was destroyed by a Leman Russ. Greater Daemons are thusly destroyable by mundane means.

I don't care how much you say "But this greater daemon is weally weally stwong! There is no way he would die look at how good he is compared to the other things in 40k!"

The Imperium only destroys the strongest Greater Daemons with Grey Knights because The Imperium does not have mundane forces strong enough or mobile enough to destroy them before they wreak havoc on worlds


Supreme Commander not only DOES have mundane means strong enough, but they are capable of deploying them in quantities so vast that for every Bloodletter in a daemonic horde, the ACU could control a titan-sized battle machine capable of destroying hundreds of such bloodletters.

You whine that a Leman Russ explosion would not be strong enough to destroy a Greater Daemon, but it is set in fluff, in black and white, a 100% indisputable fact of 40k. There is no "luckily the daemon was weakened so it was just barely driven off by the explosion", the Keeper of Secrets is FULL ON ANNIHILATED.

Mundane weapon of power X destroys Greater Daemon.
Therefore Mundane weapon of power X+Y destroys more powerful Greater Daemon.
SupCom's power level is Z, a number so vastly larger than X+Y would ever be for the case of a Greater Daemon, Daemon Lord, or whatever else fancy name you want to give it, that SupCom could destroy said daemonic forces with a standard contingent.

I am not even going to bother. You are too stubborn to see, so I have not reason to try.

You still do not see that your ACU wouldn't even have time to spend 1 second building a bot. It doesn't take 1 full second to use a psychic attack, and they HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST PSYCHIC WEAPONS.

im2randomghgh wrote:I am not even going to bother. You are too stubborn to see, so I have not reason to try.

You still do not see that your ACU wouldn't even have time to spend 1 second building a bot. It doesn't take 1 full second to use a psychic attack, and they HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST PSYCHIC WEAPONS.

Okay, so you concede your ridiculous "daemons are invincible forever" point. Honestly, if you had a logical argument, you would use it. I know for a fact that you do not, or else you would have used it already.

On the psychic power front, you are right to say that an ACU does not have defense against psychic powers.

However, an ACU can teleport to any world in the Imperium in 5 seconds flat, and begin constructing an army. If the ACU spent 20 minutes on each world, he could sow the seeds of exponential destruction wherever he went. Do you think the Imperium could respond with an exterminatus/multiple titan legion force in time to stop that? The answer, as evidenced by the fluff, is a resounding no.

I think im2randomghgh is going to give me an aneurysm.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I am not even going to bother. You are too stubborn to see, so I have not reason to try.

You still do not see that your ACU wouldn't even have time to spend 1 second building a bot. It doesn't take 1 full second to use a psychic attack, and they HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST PSYCHIC WEAPONS.

Okay, so you concede your ridiculous "daemons are invincible forever" point. Honestly, if you had a logical argument, you would use it. I know for a fact that you do not, or else you would have used it already.

On the psychic power front, you are right to say that an ACU does not have defense against psychic powers.

However, an ACU can teleport to any world in the Imperium in 5 seconds flat, and begin constructing an army. If the ACU spent 20 minutes on each world, he could sow the seeds of exponential destruction wherever he went. Do you think the Imperium could respond with an exterminatus/multiple titan legion force in time to stop that? The answer, as evidenced by the fluff, is a resounding no.

I concede noting, I have just realised you are too thick to argue with.

Also, as I was saying, in battle with an ACU on one side and a Psyker on the other, The psyker would win because before a second could pass your ACU could and would be winked out of existence.

im2randomghgh wrote:I concede noting, I have just realised you are too thick to argue with.

Also, as I was saying, in battle with an ACU on one side and a Psyker on the other, The psyker would win because before a second could pass your ACU could and would be winked out of existence.

I take offense to that. I have INDISPUTABLY provided EVIDENCE that a Greater Daemon can be obliterated by mundane, physical means. You have zero evidence to contradict that, therefore I am correct pending contradictory information. The fact that Greater Daemons have sowed destruction across the Imperium does not make them invincible, rather it IMPLIES that the Imperium could not level enough physical firepower on them, as they have the much more effective weapon of the Grey Knights to use.


Name one Psyker that has winked legions of thousands of battle titans out of existence. Hell, name one Psyker that has winked an entire enemy army out of existence. Not even the Emperor could wink away the army of Orks that wounded him and killed two of his Custodes. Not even Magnus could wink away the Space Wolves when they came knocking.


AND even IF such a psyker existed under the control of the Imperium, it is physically impossible for it to be deployed in time. Warp travel takes WEEKS to MONTHS, sometimes even YEARS. An ACU can teleport in FIVE SECONDS.

Do you know what a planet would look like after months of an ACU's control if he was hellbent on total war? IT WOULD LOOK LIKE NOTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSUMED FOR ITS MASS.

Pen≥Sword wrote: I think im2randomghgh is going to give me an aneurysm.

I got one three pages ago.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I concede noting, I have just realised you are too thick to argue with.

Also, as I was saying, in battle with an ACU on one side and a Psyker on the other, The psyker would win because before a second could pass your ACU could and would be winked out of existence.

I take offense to that. I have INDISPUTABLY provided EVIDENCE that a Greater Daemon can be obliterated by mundane, physical means. You have zero evidence to contradict that, therefore I am correct pending contradictory information. The fact that Greater Daemons have sowed destruction across the Imperium does not make them invincible, rather it IMPLIES that the Imperium could not level enough physical firepower on them, as they have the much more effective weapon of the Grey Knights to use.


Name one Psyker that has winked legions of thousands of battle titans out of existence. Hell, name one Psyker that has winked an entire enemy army out of existence. Not even the Emperor could wink away the army of Orks that wounded him and killed two of his Custodes. Not even Magnus could wink away the Space Wolves when they came knocking.


AND even IF such a psyker existed under the control of the Imperium, it is physically impossible for it to be deployed in time. Warp travel takes WEEKS to MONTHS, sometimes even YEARS. An ACU can teleport in FIVE SECONDS.

Do you know what a planet would look like after months of an ACU's control if he was hellbent on total war? IT WOULD LOOK LIKE NOTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSUMED FOR ITS MASS.

1. And I have provided a source that said Lords of Change only lose when it is part of Tzeentch's plan, contradictory sources=pick one and that is your opinion. Also, you ignored the point I raised several pages ago; powerful enough psykers can manipulate time. They could kill the mother of the inventor of the ACU a decade before his/her birth.

2. The ork WAAAGH! on Ullanor was so powerful it made their overlord ~three times the height of the Emperor. That much psychic energy is the only defense against psychic energy. Also, no psyker has ever had to wink that many titans out of existence. Also, Magnus has three titan kills to his name. How many titans has he had to fight? Three. Also: "They are powerful sorcerers and resourceful manipulators who appear to mortals as omniscient beings. They are able to turn scores of men into boneless spawn at a mere glance, destroy an armoured vehicle with a flick of a finger, or wrench the soul out of even the mightiest warriors with a simple word. Furthermore they are capable of seeing the near future which allows them to predict their foes and allies every move. Thus a Lord of Change can only be defeated when it is part of one of Tzeentch's grand schemes, when he tricks his own Daemon by sending it false visions of the future"

3. Again, they manipulate time and the laws of physics. If they wanted, and were powerful enough (Beta+) they could re-write how the universe applies to them, and simply walk to another planet. Magnus demonstrated the ability to transport his physical self across the fabric of reality at a whim.

4. It looks like nothing? Well you encounter the same problem once a planet is teleported into the warp and scoured of all life.

3 Titans is a pretty mighty feat...

But we're talking about 10,000 titan equivalents. and more to soon be on the way.

And I'm preeeeeeetty sure there's no source on that psyker bit about changing the timeline?

Pen≥Sword wrote:3 Titans is a pretty mighty feat...

But we're talking about 10,000 titan equivalents. and more to soon be on the way.

And I'm preeeeeeetty sure there's no source on that psyker bit about changing the timeline?

Lords of Change do that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pen≥Sword wrote:3 Titans is a pretty mighty feat...

But we're talking about 10,000 titan equivalents. and more to soon be on the way.

And I'm preeeeeeetty sure there's no source on that psyker bit about changing the timeline?

My point wasn't that he killed three, it is that he killed 3/3=100%

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I concede noting, I have just realised you are too thick to argue with.

Also, as I was saying, in battle with an ACU on one side and a Psyker on the other, The psyker would win because before a second could pass your ACU could and would be winked out of existence.

I take offense to that. I have INDISPUTABLY provided EVIDENCE that a Greater Daemon can be obliterated by mundane, physical means. You have zero evidence to contradict that, therefore I am correct pending contradictory information. The fact that Greater Daemons have sowed destruction across the Imperium does not make them invincible, rather it IMPLIES that the Imperium could not level enough physical firepower on them, as they have the much more effective weapon of the Grey Knights to use.


Name one Psyker that has winked legions of thousands of battle titans out of existence. Hell, name one Psyker that has winked an entire enemy army out of existence. Not even the Emperor could wink away the army of Orks that wounded him and killed two of his Custodes. Not even Magnus could wink away the Space Wolves when they came knocking.


AND even IF such a psyker existed under the control of the Imperium, it is physically impossible for it to be deployed in time. Warp travel takes WEEKS to MONTHS, sometimes even YEARS. An ACU can teleport in FIVE SECONDS.

Do you know what a planet would look like after months of an ACU's control if he was hellbent on total war? IT WOULD LOOK LIKE NOTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSUMED FOR ITS MASS.

It takes longer then 5 second for an ACU to to move. They can be fitted with a short range transporter, but it's range is about that of a small island. If they want to shift to a new planet, they have to build a gateway and charge it up. I can't pull numbers off the top of my head, but It's about as long as a mission or about 3 hours.

nomotog wrote:

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I concede noting, I have just realised you are too thick to argue with.

Also, as I was saying, in battle with an ACU on one side and a Psyker on the other, The psyker would win because before a second could pass your ACU could and would be winked out of existence.

I take offense to that. I have INDISPUTABLY provided EVIDENCE that a Greater Daemon can be obliterated by mundane, physical means. You have zero evidence to contradict that, therefore I am correct pending contradictory information. The fact that Greater Daemons have sowed destruction across the Imperium does not make them invincible, rather it IMPLIES that the Imperium could not level enough physical firepower on them, as they have the much more effective weapon of the Grey Knights to use.


Name one Psyker that has winked legions of thousands of battle titans out of existence. Hell, name one Psyker that has winked an entire enemy army out of existence. Not even the Emperor could wink away the army of Orks that wounded him and killed two of his Custodes. Not even Magnus could wink away the Space Wolves when they came knocking.


AND even IF such a psyker existed under the control of the Imperium, it is physically impossible for it to be deployed in time. Warp travel takes WEEKS to MONTHS, sometimes even YEARS. An ACU can teleport in FIVE SECONDS.

Do you know what a planet would look like after months of an ACU's control if he was hellbent on total war? IT WOULD LOOK LIKE NOTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSUMED FOR ITS MASS.

It takes longer then 5 second for an ACU to to move. They can be fitted with a short range transporter, but it's range is about that of a small island. If they want to shift to a new planet, they have to build a gateway and charge it up. I can't pull numbers off the top of my head, but It's about as long as a mission or about 3 hours.

So are the 5 second jumps about gate of infinity ish? Because an island isn't easy to picture as a unit of measurment.

nomotog wrote:It takes longer then 5 second for an ACU to to move. They can be fitted with a short range transporter, but it's range is about that of a small island. If they want to shift to a new planet, they have to build a gateway and charge it up. I can't pull numbers off the top of my head, but It's about as long as a mission or about 3 hours.

In the intro movie it takes 5 seconds to teleport, suggesting to me that as long as you have the Quantum Gateway (I assume this is what they use to teleport in the intro, otherwise it is some other technology) charged and ready somewhere, you can teleport with only a 5 second delay.

ph34r wrote:

nomotog wrote:It takes longer then 5 second for an ACU to to move. They can be fitted with a short range transporter, but it's range is about that of a small island. If they want to shift to a new planet, they have to build a gateway and charge it up. I can't pull numbers off the top of my head, but It's about as long as a mission or about 3 hours.

In the intro movie it takes 5 seconds to teleport, suggesting to me that as long as you have the Quantum Gateway (I assume this is what they use to teleport in the intro, otherwise it is some other technology) charged and ready somewhere, you can teleport with only a 5 second delay.

Well if it takes three hours to power up...

im2randomghgh wrote:1. And I have provided a source that said Lords of Change only lose when it is part of Tzeentch's plan, contradictory sources=pick one and that is your opinion. Also, you ignored the point I raised several pages ago; powerful enough psykers can manipulate time. They could kill the mother of the inventor of the ACU a decade before his/her birth.

Bull gak on that "manipulate time". That has never been evidenced in 40k, and if it were true, 40k would not exist as either The Emperor would have been killed in his weakest state or Horus would have never turned to chaos. Time manipulation is not a thing.

If lords of change only lose when it is part of tzeentch's plan... it does not matter, because lords of change lose all the time, and tzeentch seems not to mind one bit. Who cares if it is the Imperium or the UEF that destroys a lord of change? Either way it is destroyed, and tzeentch seems to be okay with that.

im2randomghgh wrote:2. The ork WAAAGH! on Ullanor was so powerful it made their overlord ~three times the height of the Emperor. That much psychic energy is the only defense against psychic energy. Also, no psyker has ever had to wink that many titans out of existence. Also, Magnus has three titan kills to his name. How many titans has he had to fight? Three. Also: "They are powerful sorcerers and resourceful manipulators who appear to mortals as omniscient beings. They are able to turn scores of men into boneless spawn at a mere glance, destroy an armoured vehicle with a flick of a finger, or wrench the soul out of even the mightiest warriors with a simple word. Furthermore they are capable of seeing the near future which allows them to predict their foes and allies every move. Thus a Lord of Change can only be defeated when it is part of one of Tzeentch's grand schemes, when he tricks his own Daemon by sending it false visions of the future"

Robots do not have souls to strip, and MechMarine battle robots can be created at a pace literally faster than a psyker can summon up the strength to smite them down... not to mention while that psyker must be fighting for his life as greater-than-titan scale weaponry is raining down on him constantly.

im2randomghgh wrote:3. Again, they manipulate time and the laws of physics. If they wanted, and were powerful enough (Beta+) they could re-write how the universe applies to them, and simply walk to another planet. Magnus demonstrated the ability to transport his physical self across the fabric of reality at a whim.

Cool, so Magnus can do the same thing that every single ACU can do! That's cool.
Interestingly, Tigurius is supposedly one of the strongest psykers in the Imperium... yet he cannot "simply re-write how the universe applies to them".
Given that Magnus is pretty damn well stuck in the Eye of Terror, an ACU would have no worry destroying the entire rest of the Galaxy.

So yeah, bull gak again.

im2randomghgh wrote:4. It looks like nothing? Well you encounter the same problem once a planet is teleported into the warp and scoured of all life.

Cool. Too bad Chaos doesn't do that to every planet it lands on? In fact it does that to almost ZERO planets it assaults.

Whereas an ACU can do that to EVERY planet.

im2randomghgh wrote:

nomotog wrote:

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:I concede noting, I have just realised you are too thick to argue with.

Also, as I was saying, in battle with an ACU on one side and a Psyker on the other, The psyker would win because before a second could pass your ACU could and would be winked out of existence.

I take offense to that. I have INDISPUTABLY provided EVIDENCE that a Greater Daemon can be obliterated by mundane, physical means. You have zero evidence to contradict that, therefore I am correct pending contradictory information. The fact that Greater Daemons have sowed destruction across the Imperium does not make them invincible, rather it IMPLIES that the Imperium could not level enough physical firepower on them, as they have the much more effective weapon of the Grey Knights to use.


Name one Psyker that has winked legions of thousands of battle titans out of existence. Hell, name one Psyker that has winked an entire enemy army out of existence. Not even the Emperor could wink away the army of Orks that wounded him and killed two of his Custodes. Not even Magnus could wink away the Space Wolves when they came knocking.


AND even IF such a psyker existed under the control of the Imperium, it is physically impossible for it to be deployed in time. Warp travel takes WEEKS to MONTHS, sometimes even YEARS. An ACU can teleport in FIVE SECONDS.

Do you know what a planet would look like after months of an ACU's control if he was hellbent on total war? IT WOULD LOOK LIKE NOTHING BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CONSUMED FOR ITS MASS.

It takes longer then 5 second for an ACU to to move. They can be fitted with a short range transporter, but it's range is about that of a small island. If they want to shift to a new planet, they have to build a gateway and charge it up. I can't pull numbers off the top of my head, but It's about as long as a mission or about 3 hours.

So are the 5 second jumps about gate of infinity ish? Because an island isn't easy to picture as a unit of measurment.

I think about 15 KM. It depends on the upgrades they have. Oh and they are instant jumps with about 2 minute cool downs between them. Some other units have the same jump system too.

ph34r wrote:

nomotog wrote:It takes longer then 5 second for an ACU to to move. They can be fitted with a short range transporter, but it's range is about that of a small island. If they want to shift to a new planet, they have to build a gateway and charge it up. I can't pull numbers off the top of my head, but It's about as long as a mission or about 3 hours.

In the intro movie it takes 5 seconds to teleport, suggesting to me that as long as you have the Quantum Gateway (I assume this is what they use to teleport in the intro, otherwise it is some other technology) charged and ready somewhere, you can teleport with only a 5 second delay.

5 seconds if the gate is locked in and charged. Building charging and finding a location you can jump to should take much longer then 5 seconds. Who knows how long it whould take them to calculate pathways between planets they have never been to, but at least 3 hours. Generally they launch two commanders to a planet. One to build the gateway and one to actually do the mission.

nomotog wrote:5 seconds if the gate is locked in and charged. Building charging and finding a location you can jump to should take much longer then 5 seconds. Who knows how long it whould take them to calculate pathways between planets they have never been to, but at least 3 hours. Generally they launch two commanders to a planet. One to build the gateway and one to actually do the mission.

True. So if the ACU teleported directly onto a Forge World with a Titan Legion within a 3 hour deployment and maneuvering window, he might have a fight on his hand.

However, rousing a titan is a process that itself takes hours. Moving the horrendously slow titans is another thing, as an ACU can literally out-walk a Titan. Finally even if an entire Titan Legio managed to engage the ACU when he had zero forces prepared, he would be able to likely defeat them with his default weapon, not to mention Overcharge. A fully combat upgraded ACU could reasonably solo multiple Titan Legions; remember that a warhound is of equal power to a Mech Marine, and a zero-upgrades commander can easily destroy many dozens of such a unit. A full upgrades ACU can easily destroy a few dozens of Siege Assault Bots, which are of equivalent power and much greater speed and maneuverability to Imperator Titans.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. And I have provided a source that said Lords of Change only lose when it is part of Tzeentch's plan, contradictory sources=pick one and that is your opinion. Also, you ignored the point I raised several pages ago; powerful enough psykers can manipulate time. They could kill the mother of the inventor of the ACU a decade before his/her birth.

Bull gak on that "manipulate time". That has never been evidenced in 40k, and if it were true, 40k would not exist as either The Emperor would have been killed in his weakest state or Horus would have never turned to chaos. Time manipulation is not a thing.

If lords of change only lose when it is part of tzeentch's plan... it does not matter, because lords of change lose all the time, and tzeentch seems not to mind one bit. Who cares if it is the Imperium or the UEF that destroys a lord of change? Either way it is destroyed, and tzeentch seems to be okay with that.

im2randomghgh wrote:2. The ork WAAAGH! on Ullanor was so powerful it made their overlord ~three times the height of the Emperor. That much psychic energy is the only defense against psychic energy. Also, no psyker has ever had to wink that many titans out of existence. Also, Magnus has three titan kills to his name. How many titans has he had to fight? Three. Also: "They are powerful sorcerers and resourceful manipulators who appear to mortals as omniscient beings. They are able to turn scores of men into boneless spawn at a mere glance, destroy an armoured vehicle with a flick of a finger, or wrench the soul out of even the mightiest warriors with a simple word. Furthermore they are capable of seeing the near future which allows them to predict their foes and allies every move. Thus a Lord of Change can only be defeated when it is part of one of Tzeentch's grand schemes, when he tricks his own Daemon by sending it false visions of the future"

Robots do not have souls to strip, and MechMarine battle robots can be created at a pace literally faster than a psyker can summon up the strength to smite them down... not to mention while that psyker must be fighting for his life as greater-than-titan scale weaponry is raining down on him constantly.

im2randomghgh wrote:3. Again, they manipulate time and the laws of physics. If they wanted, and were powerful enough (Beta+) they could re-write how the universe applies to them, and simply walk to another planet. Magnus demonstrated the ability to transport his physical self across the fabric of reality at a whim.

Cool, so Magnus can do the same thing that every single ACU can do! That's cool.
Interestingly, Tigurius is supposedly one of the strongest psykers in the Imperium... yet he cannot "simply re-write how the universe applies to them".
Given that Magnus is pretty damn well stuck in the Eye of Terror, an ACU would have no worry destroying the entire rest of the Galaxy.

So yeah, bull gak again.

im2randomghgh wrote:4. It looks like nothing? Well you encounter the same problem once a planet is teleported into the warp and scoured of all life.

Cool. Too bad Chaos doesn't do that to every planet it lands on? In fact it does that to almost ZERO planets it assaults.

Whereas an ACU can do that to EVERY planet.

1. Yes, but if you pose a threat to Tzeentch's food (IoM) Then he has no reason to hold back. And Manipulating time is one of the trademark abilities of LoC. Especially Kairos.

2. Again, With lords of change they don't get "tired" like human psykers do, they can draw upon the infinite power of sorcery that is Tzeentch.

3. Every single ACU can do...after three hours of preparation. And Tigurius has never demonstrated the ability, means little. Gammadon of the Blood Gorgons was described as being able to see and alter the mathematical equations of the laws of the physical universe around him so, there's that.

And Magnus is stuck nowhere. There traitor primarchs simply do not care much about the material universe. They are gods on their daemon worlds.

4. Umm...that what chaos does to EVERY world it occcupies. (See: Gereon, Planet of the Sorcerers, every daemon world that exists)



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ph34r wrote:

nomotog wrote:5 seconds if the gate is locked in and charged. Building charging and finding a location you can jump to should take much longer then 5 seconds. Who knows how long it whould take them to calculate pathways between planets they have never been to, but at least 3 hours. Generally they launch two commanders to a planet. One to build the gateway and one to actually do the mission.

True. So if the ACU teleported directly onto a Forge World with a Titan Legion within a 3 hour deployment and maneuvering window, he might have a fight on his hand.

However, rousing a titan is a process that itself takes hours. Moving the horrendously slow titans is another thing, as an ACU can literally out-walk a Titan. Finally even if an entire Titan Legio managed to engage the ACU when he had zero forces prepared, he would be able to likely defeat them with his default weapon, not to mention Overcharge. A fully combat upgraded ACU could reasonably solo multiple Titan Legions; remember that a warhound is of equal power to a Mech Marine, and a zero-upgrades commander can easily destroy many dozens of such a unit. A full upgrades ACU can easily destroy a few dozens of Siege Assault Bots, which are of equivalent power and much greater speed and maneuverability to Imperator Titans.

Titans are NOT slow in movement, especially warhounds. At ALL.

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Yes, but if you pose a threat to Tzeentch's food (IoM) Then he has no reason to hold back. And Manipulating time is one of the trademark abilities of LoC. Especially Kairos.

2. Again, With lords of change they don't get "tired" like human psykers do, they can draw upon the infinite power of sorcery that is Tzeentch.

3. Every single ACU can do...after three hours of preparation. And Tigurius has never demonstrated the ability, means little. Gammadon of the Blood Gorgons was described as being able to see and alter the mathematical equations of the laws of the physical universe around him so, there's that.

And Magnus is stuck nowhere. There traitor primarchs simply do not care much about the material universe. They are gods on their daemon worlds.

4. Umm...that what chaos does to EVERY world it occcupies. (See: Gereon, Planet of the Sorcerers, every daemon world that exists)

So your entire defense lies around the assertion that "Tzeentch is literally unstoppable and his Greater Daemons have unlimited power"?

And @4, no, most worlds that chaos occupies remain in realspace forever, and many such worlds are shortly reclaimed or exterminatused by the Imperium.

ph34r wrote:

nomotog wrote:5 seconds if the gate is locked in and charged. Building charging and finding a location you can jump to should take much longer then 5 seconds. Who knows how long it whould take them to calculate pathways between planets they have never been to, but at least 3 hours. Generally they launch two commanders to a planet. One to build the gateway and one to actually do the mission.

True. So if the ACU teleported directly onto a Forge World with a Titan Legion within a 3 hour deployment and maneuvering window, he might have a fight on his hand.

However, rousing a titan is a process that itself takes hours. Moving the horrendously slow titans is another thing, as an ACU can literally out-walk a Titan. Finally even if an entire Titan Legio managed to engage the ACU when he had zero forces prepared, he would be able to likely defeat them with his default weapon, not to mention Overcharge. A fully combat upgraded ACU could reasonably solo multiple Titan Legions; remember that a warhound is of equal power to a Mech Marine, and a zero-upgrades commander can easily destroy many dozens of such a unit. A full upgrades ACU can easily destroy a few dozens of Siege Assault Bots, which are of equivalent power and much greater speed and maneuverability to Imperator Titans.

She could probably absorb the damage well she builds a factory, or some turrets, or you know she could just capture the titans.

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:1. Yes, but if you pose a threat to Tzeentch's food (IoM) Then he has no reason to hold back. And Manipulating time is one of the trademark abilities of LoC. Especially Kairos.

2. Again, With lords of change they don't get "tired" like human psykers do, they can draw upon the infinite power of sorcery that is Tzeentch.

3. Every single ACU can do...after three hours of preparation. And Tigurius has never demonstrated the ability, means little. Gammadon of the Blood Gorgons was described as being able to see and alter the mathematical equations of the laws of the physical universe around him so, there's that.

And Magnus is stuck nowhere. There traitor primarchs simply do not care much about the material universe. They are gods on their daemon worlds.

4. Umm...that what chaos does to EVERY world it occcupies. (See: Gereon, Planet of the Sorcerers, every daemon world that exists)

So your entire defense lies around the assertion that "Tzeentch is literally unstoppable and his Greater Daemons have unlimited power"?

And @4, no, most worlds that chaos occupies remain in realspace forever, and many such worlds are shortly reclaimed or exterminatused by the Imperium.

Every major faction in 40k is unstoppable. That is why their wars haven't changed at all in 10.000 years.

@4, no, most don't. Unless the Imperium responds immediately, the world will be lost to them forever. All the mant thousands of daemon worlds are have been plucked from realspace at some point.

im2randomghgh wrote:Titans are NOT slow in movement, especially warhounds. At ALL.

Warhound Titan offroad top speed: 42kph = 26mph
Mech Marine top speed: 78.1 m/s = 175 mph (6.7x as fast)

Reaver Titan offroad top speed: 27 kph = 16.7 mph
Seraphim T2 assault bot top speed: 56.6 m/s = 127 mph (7.6x as fast)


Yes they are

ph34r wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:

ph34r wrote:

nomotog wrote:5 seconds if the gate is locked in and charged. Building charging and finding a location you can jump to should take much longer then 5 seconds. Who knows how long it whould take them to calculate pathways between planets they have never been to, but at least 3 hours. Generally they launch two commanders to a planet. One to build the gateway and one to actually do the mission.

True. So if the ACU teleported directly onto a Forge World with a Titan Legion within a 3 hour deployment and maneuvering window, he might have a fight on his hand.

However, rousing a titan is a process that itself takes hours. Moving the horrendously slow titans is another thing, as an ACU can literally out-walk a Titan. Finally even if an entire Titan Legio managed to engage the ACU when he had zero forces prepared, he would be able to likely defeat them with his default weapon, not to mention Overcharge. A fully combat upgraded ACU could reasonably solo multiple Titan Legions; remember that a warhound is of equal power to a Mech Marine, and a zero-upgrades commander can easily destroy many dozens of such a unit. A full upgrades ACU can easily destroy a few dozens of Siege Assault Bots, which are of equivalent power and much greater speed and maneuverability to Imperator Titans.

Titans are NOT slow in movement, especially warhounds. At ALL.

Warhound Titan offroad top speed: 42kph = 26mph
Mech Marine top speed: 78.1 m/s = 175 mph (6.7x as fast)

Reaver Titan offroad top speed: 27 kph = 16.7 mph
Seraphim T2 assault bot top speed: 56.6 m/s = 127 mph (7.6x as fast)

Didn't say they were faster, said they were fast.

nomotog wrote:She could probably absorb the damage well she builds a factory, or some turrets, or you know she could just capture the titans.

Yep. Or just walk over the horizon.

ACU top speed: 33.2 m/s = 74 mph


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im2randomghgh wrote:Didn't say they were faster, said they were fast.

Ignoring the fact that you would never claim Titans to be fast unless you thought it would dispute the whole "walk away forever" point SupCom has in obvious advantage and that you are massively backpeddling, In what universe is 25 miles per hour considered FAST? With the Reaver going at a mighty 17 mph? There are people that can RUN that fast. That is NOT fast.

You know we keep talking about the ACU, but they are just one of the more basic units. You have things like aircraft carriers that can build there own aircraft underwater. All kinds of crazy things that can even function without a ACU