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Cruddace claimed that nids were designed for 6th edition, so maybe the genius will be revealed to us then.

I mean I'm not holding my breath, but that is what they said.

Alternately, perhaps cruddace has learned from his mistakes.

When did he say that?

I remember it too, But I can't find a sause (lol wrong sause). Maybe, its just one of those well known things that you can't find the origin of because its so wide spread.

Cruddace has already done enough damage to Nids and Sisters of Battle. For the greater good, please let him not ruin my first army!

SabrX wrote:Cruddace has already done enough damage to Nids and Sisters of Battle. For the greater good, please let him not ruin my first army!

See what I meen? Its like a pit of ITS RUINED FOREVER!
read the bit under Tabletop RPG. It mentions 40k, just a little bit.

I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

SonicPara wrote:I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

Tyranids is not at the perfect level of power when it can't compete with other codexes. The fact is, if most of the books are a certain level, that is the normal level.Tyranids are not at that level. Cruddace didn't do well with Sisters of Battle either, even if it is only a WD dex. Ward wouldn't make the most blatantly powerful dex either. SM/BA/Necrons are perfectly balanced. Cruddace has not logged a good book in 40k yet, IMO. and Kelly brought the abomination that is Space Wolves to the tabletop.

http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html
Not sure how much of it is crap or if all of it is crap but making the contribution anyway

guyperson5 wrote:http://kroxitau.blogspot.com/2010/03/new-tau-codex-leak.html
Not sure how much of it is crap or if all of it is crap but making the contribution anyway

Check the dates on that thing, and it's all crap. It was a joke by the author.

Oh.....Damn

Sasori wrote:

SonicPara wrote:I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

Tyranids is not at the perfect level of power when it can't compete with other codexes. The fact is, if most of the books are a certain level, that is the normal level.Tyranids are not at that level. Cruddace didn't do well with Sisters of Battle either, even if it is only a WD dex. Ward wouldn't make the most blatantly powerful dex either. SM/BA/Necrons are perfectly balanced. Cruddace has not logged a good book in 40k yet, IMO. and Kelly brought the abomination that is Space Wolves to the tabletop.

That is true however as Cruddace did not design the other codexes he can't be blamed for them being better than the Tyranids. There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID. The second point is due to the current metagame but could have been avoided by giving all Synapse creatures Eternal Warrior.

The vulnerability of Tyranids to SW Missile Spam, JotWW, and DEldar poison weapons, and similar, is due to GW not having a coherent strategy for writing codexes.

I find it hard to believe that Tyranids were designed for 6th edition as they were finished two years ago and at that time no-one expected 5th edition for three more years.

So in the light if this Ward might be the best man for the job? I know his fluff tends to be awfull, but he seems to understand the game better then crudd and Phil is like 50/50 on making books that work...

Kilkrazy wrote:There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID.

Those are the two BIG flaws, but there are way more than that.

It feels like half the book has been pre-emptively nerfed. I'm not sure what he was so scared of in the pyrovore that he had to make it unplayable.

tarnish wrote:So in the light if this Ward might be the best man for the job? I know his fluff tends to be awfull, but he seems to understand the game better then crudd and Phil is like 50/50 on making books that work...

Considering Phil wrote Orks, Eldar, and Dark Eldar, I'd say Kelly is 75/25. Even then, I don't mind Space Wolves aside from Jaws and Long Fang spam. It isn't the codex I used to have, but I like it alright. He's not really much of a loyalist Marine writer in my eyes anyway.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID.

Those are the two BIG flaws, but there are way more than that.

It feels like half the book has been pre-emptively nerfed. I'm not sure what he was so scared of in the pyrovore that he had to make it unplayable.

There's a ton of decent lists that can be built without Pyrovores but suffer from the Elites and Warriors issues.

All codexes contain some poor units. The SM's have the Thunder Gun, for example. Tau have Ethereals, Space Pope, Shadow Sun, Gun Drones, Stealth Suits, Vespids, Sniper Drones, the Skyray, Krootoxen and Fire Warriors.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Rented Tritium wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID.

Those are the two BIG flaws, but there are way more than that.

It feels like half the book has been pre-emptively nerfed. I'm not sure what he was so scared of in the pyrovore that he had to make it unplayable.

There's a ton of decent lists that can be built without Pyrovores but suffer from the Elites and Warriors issues.

Elites and instant death are the deal breakers, but there are not a "ton" of decent lists in the nid codex. Half the book is unusually overpriced and feels unfinished.

I will concede that there would be at least ONE competitive list without those two issues, which is something.

Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

warboss wrote:Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

Warriors could have been better dealt with as W2 and cheaper with no Eternal Warrior. It is the combination of high cost, high wounds and high vulnerability to ID that is the problem.

Kilkrazy wrote:

warboss wrote:Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

Warriors could have been better dealt with as W2 and cheaper with no Eternal Warrior. It is the combination of high cost, high wounds and high vulnerability to ID that is the problem.

I've found personally when facing Nids that I almost always have higher priority targets for my str8 weapons than warriors (tyrants, tervigons, trygons, carnifexes). They're no more vulnerable to ID than anything else in the codex barring monstrous creatures. It's just that the 3rd wound they gained (which makes them soak most normal fire a heck of alot more easily than before... people seem to forget that) makes it feel like they are. They basically got extra str1-7 soaking ability as a trade off to not shrugging off str8+ wounds. People like to harp on the later but forget the former. Like I said, I'd personally think they'd be better off thematically at 2 wounds, 3+ save, and 25pts. I just don't think the hand wringing and lamenting is warranted at their current power level. A 3 wound 4+ save T4 fearless troops choice for 30pts is NOT a bad thing. They're certainly not perfect but nor are they fatally flawed in actual practice (which kind of sums up the entire codex).

To bring this back a bit more on topic (as in Tau!), I do hope that the crisis suits (as the warrior analog) don't get the same change. I don't see a need for regular suits to be 3w and would rather have them get bumped up to a more appropriate starting BS with a slight drop in points rather than an extra wound. BS4 troop-slot suits for 5pts less than what we currently pay feels a bit more in line with the 5th edition costing of units.

Kilkrazy wrote:

warboss wrote:Frankly, I think Nid players were spoiled with synapse eternal warrior in the previous dex and just can't get over the fact that it was deservedly taken away from most of the units (including warriors). While I do think that on or two special characters creatures should have it, there's no justification for warriors having it as a unit entry rule. Their bump to 3 wounds was somewhat unwarranted (they feel better at 2 wounds, 3+ save IMO) but making them immune to instant death doesn't fix that. If the nid codex needs any rule in particular with more frequency, it's invul saves. Spamming a special rule isn't the answer.

Warriors could have been better dealt with as W2 and cheaper with no Eternal Warrior. It is the combination of high cost, high wounds and high vulnerability to ID that is the problem.

Yep.

I hate spending the extra points for another wound I never asked for that's never relevant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

warboss wrote:To bring this back a bit more on topic (as in Tau!), I do hope that the crisis suits (as the warrior analog) don't get the same change.

I am hoping with every ounce of hope I have that they don't get that, yes.

warboss wrote:To bring this back a bit more on topic (as in Tau!), I do hope that the crisis suits (as the warrior analog) don't get the same change. I don't see a need for regular suits to be 3w and would rather have them get bumped up to a more appropriate starting BS with a slight drop in points rather than an extra wound. BS4 troop-slot suits for 5pts less than what we currently pay feels a bit more in line with the 5th edition costing of units.

My suit only ever die to ID, due to rokkits (I mostly play my brothers orcs) or in CC (either due to powerklaws or just massive number of hits). Anything that doesnt carry rokkits, like cannons or loota's, always have higher priority targets or are pretty pointless to shoot at the suits due to the saves, but its mostly dreads/deffkoptas with rokkits that ruin my suits :(. 3W would be the most pointless change ever, and it only adds more wounds to loose in cc situations, though that hardly matters because our LD sucks to begin with.

Rented Tritium wrote:
I hate spending the extra points for another wound I never asked for that's never relevant.

What armies do you face that apparently only field str8 and up weapons in their armies? If not, then the extra wound IS relevant for the vast majority of shooting statlines in the game. At best, maybe 1 in 5 weapons on a tabletop are over str8. For str1-7 weapons, you are 50% MORE survivable. Whether or not the trade off is worth it is a matter of opinion but claiming that you get no benefit is just outright false. I agree that it wasn't asked for but that doesn't mean it's not useful in some (in fact, most statistically) situations. In the end, I've already agreed multiple times that warriors would have been better at lower wounds/lower cost; the same applies to crisis suits.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MoD_Legion wrote:
My suit only ever die to ID, due to rokkits (I mostly play my brothers orcs) or in CC (either due to powerklaws or just massive number of hits). Anything that doesnt carry rokkits, like cannons or loota's, always have higher priority targets or are pretty pointless to shoot at the suits due to the saves, but its mostly dreads/deffkoptas with rokkits that ruin my suits :(. 3W would be the most pointless change ever, and it only adds more wounds to loose in cc situations, though that hardly matters because our LD sucks to begin with.

The same usually happens to me but thems the breaks for the 2nd highest priority target in the entire codex (second only to broadsides). I always joke with my opponents that my gun drones furiosly scan the air in front of the crisis suits to detect incoming str8 rounds and try to catch them. I suspect that Tau leadership will get better (as have almost every armies' except grey knights who found fear) with an upcoming book. If the imperial codicies are any indication, we won't have a choice in taking a shas ui upgrade anymore and each squad will generally get a higher LD model as part of the standard package.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Sasori wrote:

SonicPara wrote:I wouldn't worry so much about Cruddace, I think his work on Codex: Tyranids (which I think is the perfect level of power for a codex, just seems weak cuz so many codices are stupid powerful) was a kneejerk reaction to the borderline broken Codex: Imperial Guard that he wrote. Mat Ward would make the most blatantly powerful codex but both Cruddace and Kelly have logged a number of fantastic books; Kelly's handling of Dark Eldar was downright breathtaking, that book is so fantastic in so many ways.

Tyranids is not at the perfect level of power when it can't compete with other codexes. The fact is, if most of the books are a certain level, that is the normal level.Tyranids are not at that level. Cruddace didn't do well with Sisters of Battle either, even if it is only a WD dex. Ward wouldn't make the most blatantly powerful dex either. SM/BA/Necrons are perfectly balanced. Cruddace has not logged a good book in 40k yet, IMO. and Kelly brought the abomination that is Space Wolves to the tabletop.

That is true however as Cruddace did not design the other codexes he can't be blamed for them being better than the Tyranids. There are only two real flaws in the Tyranid book; too much competition in the Elite slots, and the danger of Warriors falling easily to ID. The second point is due to the current metagame but could have been avoided by giving all Synapse creatures Eternal Warrior.

The vulnerability of Tyranids to SW Missile Spam, JotWW, and DEldar poison weapons, and similar, is due to GW not having a coherent strategy for writing codexes.

I find it hard to believe that Tyranids were designed for 6th edition as they were finished two years ago and at that time no-one expected 5th edition for three more years.

I find another thing is that we are burdened with Synapse, for really not much of a benefit. I'd also say the Major over costing on TMC is huge as well. The Harpy/Carnifex/Mawloc Springs to mind. Cruddace really seems to have an issue with his points cost. Then we have all the little small things that don't make sense, like Deathspitters on TMC.

Really, it's a few major things, then a TON of small things that just add up, that end up the overall downfall of the codex. I'm really hoping in 6th That poison weapons only wound MC on 6's. I think that's at least a step in the right direction for helping out the Nid codex. If we take the hit to cover in the new rules that I'm expecting though, we're going to be hurting in that area.

I heard that every codex after BA was planned for 6th. That's the point where we started seeing Supersonic and Aerial assault on Vehicles.

Sasori wrote:
Really, it's a few major things, then a TON of small things that just add up, that end up the overall downfall of the codex. I'm really hoping in 6th That poison weapons only wound MC on 6's. I think that's at least a step in the right direction for helping out the Nid codex. If we take the hit to cover in the new rules that I'm expecting though, we're going to be hurting in that area.

I am hoping that the multi-wound model rules for spreading damage and bleeding out actually pan out.

Was just watching some of the forgeworld video thingies and came across this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEHiak3jCjc&t=4m19s

They are talking about forgeworld models being used in codices and Will mentions 'a few models in the tau range' going over to a codex. Not sure if it was just wishlisting from people before, but this would seems to support the rumours that we are getting some cool forgeworld toys.

Well IIRC Piranhas and Skyrays made the jump, so maybe he is looking to the past, not the future.

The forgeworld tau range is pretty huge and about half of it seems pretty reasonable in terms of fluff and power level, so that would be nice.

Most likely would be either the dual gun piranha or the special battlesuits. Tau technology marches forward unlike the rest of 40k, so it makes sense to have hardware revisions on suits.

Tetras, Xv-9s and TX-42s would be welcomed in the codex by most Tau players.

With a few mods some of the Drone and Kroot units could be pretty reasonable too.

We'll probably see the Barracuda and Remoras jump to give the Tau a Flyer choice or two.

Hmm yea actually, looking back at the clip he is talking about the valkyrie and drop pods as example as well. I'm so easily excitable :(.

It's alright, we understand.