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I really have no words for what GW is going to do at this point, but I'd like to soapbox for a moment and remind us all of something.

Just because a new edition arrives doesn't mean you have to pack your old one away and move to the latest and greatest. We've been treating GW models like new Cars or expensive computer hardware, enthusiasts in those hobbies switch to the latest and greatest because of enhanced features and function. There is some of that with GW product, shiny new model syndrome is an internal term at GW for a reason, gotta have a rules book to sell to coincide with that model.

If 9th is a whole different game that just derives from the fluff then treat it as such, continue to play 8th or 6th/7th. (To me it sounds like they are moving to a more warmahordes style of play?)

D&D players have done this for years, I know a few groups that were playing 3, 3.5, 4th to Pathfinder and went back to using second edition. Just like Paizo made Wizards pay through the nose for 4th edition, Mantic or some other company will capitalize on this and give you better rules for your models.

I'm hoping that GW simplifies the rules as well. Do we really need so many multiple flavors of similar things that split hairs?

Igo-Ugo
Move-Shoot-Fight

Simple.

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:

Just because a new edition arrives doesn't mean you have to pack your old one away and move to the latest and greatest. We've been treating GW models like new Cars or expensive computer hardware, enthusiasts in those hobbies switch to the latest and greatest because of enhanced features and function. There is some of that with GW product, shiny new model syndrome is an internal term at GW for a reason, gotta have a rules book to sell to coincide with that model.

If 9th is a whole different game that just derives from the fluff then treat it as such, continue to play 8th or 6th/7th.

This sort of comment comes up regularly in new edition threads (and it's being bandied around on Warseer at the moment too). To play devil's advocate for a minute (I have no skin in this game because I don't play WFB), your comment is only valid if you've got a group of friends of like mind. If you're someone who mostly plays pick-up games at a shop then you'll be out of luck. It's much more likely that your opponents will either keep buying into new editions (meaning you need to do the same to get a game) or they'll just quit entirely (meaning you won't have anyone to play against).

 Orock wrote:
This sounds exactly like what GW would do to me. Change everything around at the expense of those who have already invested tons o cash, and are probaby all wringed out, hopefully make it less model intensive so you can actually get some new blood interested in buying (remember rules and fluff are not important) and even combine armies together so that anyone that does stay that is invested in say orcs and goblins, now has to invest in ogre kingdoms too to stay competative/make up for their lost units.

Honestly Ill be more suprised if this DOSENT happen.

You forgot one thing: Make all the existing stock irrelevant for resale on ebay etc. since the models are out-dated and can be used as proxies at best.

 warboss wrote:
Normally, I'd poo poo this type of huge change but D&D did pretty much the same thing with their most popular setting (forgotten realms) with the advent of 4th edition. Granted, WOTC didn't have to worry about invalidating folks' armies of minis but that type of huge shake up with a new edition for a popular and long running product line has precedent within the industry.

It also sort of happened with BattleTech. When the license went to Wizkids BTech became MechWarrikr: Dark Age with a new ruleset that invalidated the old game.

angryboy2k wrote:

 Warboss Gubbinz wrote:

Just because a new edition arrives doesn't mean you have to pack your old one away and move to the latest and greatest. We've been treating GW models like new Cars or expensive computer hardware, enthusiasts in those hobbies switch to the latest and greatest because of enhanced features and function. There is some of that with GW product, shiny new model syndrome is an internal term at GW for a reason, gotta have a rules book to sell to coincide with that model.

If 9th is a whole different game that just derives from the fluff then treat it as such, continue to play 8th or 6th/7th.

This sort of comment comes up regularly in new edition threads (and it's being bandied around on Warseer at the moment too). To play devil's advocate for a minute (I have no skin in this game because I don't play WFB), your comment is only valid if you've got a group of friends of like mind. If you're someone who mostly plays pick-up games at a shop then you'll be out of luck. It's much more likely that your opponents will either keep buying into new editions (meaning you need to do the same to get a game) or they'll just quit entirely (meaning you won't have anyone to play against).

Thats a fair assessment, one of the reasons 40k and fantasy are/were so popular is you could take your army to any store that carried it and find a pickup game. It's still true for 40k but i don't think fantasy will have that luxury if the changes are as dramatic as they say. We may see folks folding into gaming groups more than pickup games which doesn't speak well for the line.

I think people speculating on the speculation is pretty funny, especially when posted as fact.

Cool your jets, folks.

It could be pretty interesting, but I'm certainly holding off on the WoC and/or Empire army/ies I was thinking of starting this year. I'll get stuck in to Infinity 3.0 instead.

There are a few issues with Fantasy which could be addressed but if I could change one thing, it would be game length. 10 minutes each per turn would get you a 6 turn game in two hours. Too much pondering and referring back to the books just adds flab.

If I could change another, it would number of models required. A box of Saurus/Orc Boyz/Black Knights should be a viable option. You shouldn't need three boxes.

 warboss wrote:
Normally, I'd poo poo this type of huge change but D&D did pretty much the same thing with their most popular setting (forgotten realms) with the advent of 4th edition. Granted, WOTC didn't have to worry about invalidating folks' armies of minis but that type of huge shake up with a new edition for a popular and long running product line has precedent within the industry.

Well, to be fair, not only for 4th edition. The Forgotten Realms have been shaken up pretty badly more or less with every new D&D edition.

Thanks for keeping this updated, Accolade! With a 4-15 record, it definitely seems worth having a huge caveat / completely ignoring Earlybird - he is likely just parroting and tweaking other rumor mongers.

He has a 3 out of 4 chance of being wrong based on prior results - meaning it's much more likely to be what isn't true . I see you noted that in the OP but honestly might be worth removing entirely, or making a separate "unreliable" section (rumor mongers with no record or a very negative record) to chuck all that junk into.

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for keeping this updated, Accolade! With a 4-15 record, it definitely seems worth having a huge caveat / completely ignoring Earlybird - he is likely just parroting and tweaking other rumor mongers.

I'm unfamiliar with the Greater Spotted Tweaker, pray tell what is it's natural habitat?

(Your pun gets 10/10 for effort, but 2/10 for execution )

 Baragash wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Thanks for keeping this updated, Accolade! With a 4-15 record, it definitely seems worth having a huge caveat / completely ignoring Earlybird - he is likely just parroting and tweaking other rumor mongers.

I'm unfamiliar with the Greater Spotted Tweaker, pray tell what is it's natural habitat?

(Your pun gets 10/10 for effort, but 2/10 for execution )

I don't think he was making a pun.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Normally, I'd poo poo this type of huge change but D&D did pretty much the same thing with their most popular setting (forgotten realms) with the advent of 4th edition. Granted, WOTC didn't have to worry about invalidating folks' armies of minis but that type of huge shake up with a new edition for a popular and long running product line has precedent within the industry.

It also sort of happened with BattleTech. When the license went to Wizkids BTech became MechWarrikr: Dark Age with a new ruleset that invalidated the old game.

And WizKids proceeded to drive Battletech right into the ground.

This is all a bunch of baseless crap, as is most of the stuff from warseer.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
This is all a bunch of baseless crap, as is most of the stuff from warseer.

And you base this on what exactly?

If you have contradicting info to share please do instead of just dismissing stuff because reasons despite some of these rumours coming from reputable sources.

Darnok and Harry (the first several sections of the OP here) are very reliable afaik. This "bubble" thing is happening, it's the peripheral details other mongers are adding on (base changes, losing an entire race) that are extremely questionable, imo. Could be true, but just feels like guessing at this point.

To tack onto RITides, Harry over at Warseer (who has a very good reputation with rumors) had made posts about this rumor almost six months ago- still in the right time frame of release and everything. Obviously, there wasn't much to say or do about that since it was so far out but now you have Darnok, one of the biggest names over on Warseer, posting almost the exact same things. Their reputations, in conjunction with the fluxing state of WHFB (aka End Times) corroborates their stories quite well. With that in mind, I think it's definitely worth giving this rumor credence (not time to purge all of your miniatures of course).

If the bubbles are as bad as I imagine they are, I will cease to like bubbles, I will not even be able to enjoy the Spongebob episode about bubbles.

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Just because a new edition arrives doesn't mean you have to pack your old one away and move to the latest and greatest. We've been treating GW models like new Cars or expensive computer hardware, enthusiasts in those hobbies switch to the latest and greatest because of enhanced features and function. There is some of that with GW product, shiny new model syndrome is an internal term at GW for a reason, gotta have a rules book to sell to coincide with that model.

If 9th is a whole different game that just derives from the fluff then treat it as such, continue to play 8th or 6th/7th. (To me it sounds like they are moving to a more warmahordes style of play?)

We could stand on a rooftop and scream this at the top of our lungs, but I wonder how many actually bother to listen? People recoil from old editions like they were rattlesnakes, and the overarching reason seems to be 'lack of support'. And since GW don't really fix or complete anything between editions, as far as I can tell - including by many folks coming out and saying it - 'support' seems to mean 'releasing new things to buy'. It's then with a little lurch of horror (just a little lurch) I realise just how twisted the gaming culture of GW is, that what you say is right, and that means Alan Merrett was right: GW fans abandon old editions because otherwise they can't keep up their hobby of buying GW products.

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Thats a fair assessment, one of the reasons 40k and fantasy are/were so popular is you could take your army to any store that carried it and find a pickup game. It's still true for 40k but i don't think fantasy will have that luxury if the changes are as dramatic as they say. We may see folks folding into gaming groups more than pickup games which doesn't speak well for the line.

"Welcome to gaming outside the GW compound. Please deposit your feeding spoons in the receptacles provided. Following routine deprogramming you will have many training courses at your disposal including: basic networking in the internet age, 5+ year-old books are not poison, and multibased elements 101."

When the end comes and your world is shattered into a billion tiny bubbles - be they dimensional tesseracts or gaming groups - like Gubbinz says you don't really have the luxury of lounging around as you did, and having things drop into your lap. You need to modify your way of thinking and doing things, or drop out completely.

 Breotan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Normally, I'd poo poo this type of huge change but D&D did pretty much the same thing with their most popular setting (forgotten realms) with the advent of 4th edition. Granted, WOTC didn't have to worry about invalidating folks' armies of minis but that type of huge shake up with a new edition for a popular and long running product line has precedent within the industry.

It also sort of happened with BattleTech. When the license went to Wizkids BTech became MechWarrikr: Dark Age with a new ruleset that invalidated the old game.

And WizKids proceeded to drive Battletech right into the ground.

Which is why its now licensed to Cataylst Game Labs and doing quite well now.

If half of the rumors are true, Me and the other local fantasy players are already considering going back to an older version to play. alot of playtesting will be involved to keep some of the new stuff but the oly other option is to quit.

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
alot of playtesting will be involved to keep some of the new stuff but the oly other option is to quit.

Or look at another set of generic fantasy battle rules.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
This is all a bunch of baseless crap, as is most of the stuff from warseer.

Couldn't agree more. Having a good reputation as a rumor monger(darnok and harry) doesn't mean you're right about everything. This reeks of when my 6 year old tells me a made up story. So over the top no one should believe it.

Maybe it is all false, but that'll say a lot about GW that so many of their customers will believe such a crazy move.

Personally, I think everything rumoured makes perfect sense from a disconnected and desperate business point of view, so have no problems believing that this is what's going to happen.

It's a new release from GW, so expectations aren't exactly high.

 Vermis wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
alot of playtesting will be involved to keep some of the new stuff but the oly other option is to quit.

Or look at another set of generic fantasy battle rules.

Spin it as you prefer, some people play warhammer because they actually like warhammer, from the armies to the lore. *gasp*

Vetril wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
alot of playtesting will be involved to keep some of the new stuff but the oly other option is to quit.

Or look at another set of generic fantasy battle rules.

Spin it as you prefer, some people play warhammer because they actually like warhammer, from the armies to the lore. *gasp*

Armies and lore are different from the rules. What he's suggesting is using an adaptable generic ruleset that allows you to field whatever army you like. That way you can continue to use your models and still have a supported ruleset.

 Vermis wrote:

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Just because a new edition arrives doesn't mean you have to pack your old one away and move to the latest and greatest. We've been treating GW models like new Cars or expensive computer hardware, enthusiasts in those hobbies switch to the latest and greatest because of enhanced features and function. There is some of that with GW product, shiny new model syndrome is an internal term at GW for a reason, gotta have a rules book to sell to coincide with that model.

If 9th is a whole different game that just derives from the fluff then treat it as such, continue to play 8th or 6th/7th. (To me it sounds like they are moving to a more warmahordes style of play?)

We could stand on a rooftop and scream this at the top of our lungs, but I wonder how many actually bother to listen? People recoil from old editions like they were rattlesnakes, and the overarching reason seems to be 'lack of support'. And since GW don't really fix or complete anything between editions, as far as I can tell - including by many folks coming out and saying it - 'support' seems to mean 'releasing new things to buy'. It's then with a little lurch of horror (just a little lurch) I realise just how twisted the gaming culture of GW is, that what you say is right, and that means Alan Merrett was right: GW fans abandon old editions because otherwise they can't keep up their hobby of buying GW products.

Warboss Gubbinz wrote:Thats a fair assessment, one of the reasons 40k and fantasy are/were so popular is you could take your army to any store that carried it and find a pickup game. It's still true for 40k but i don't think fantasy will have that luxury if the changes are as dramatic as they say. We may see folks folding into gaming groups more than pickup games which doesn't speak well for the line.

"Welcome to gaming outside the GW compound. Please deposit your feeding spoons in the receptacles provided. Following routine deprogramming you will have many training courses at your disposal including: basic networking in the internet age, 5+ year-old books are not poison, and multibased elements 101."

When the end comes and your world is shattered into a billion tiny bubbles - be they dimensional tesseracts or gaming groups - like Gubbinz says you don't really have the luxury of lounging around as you did, and having things drop into your lap. You need to modify your way of thinking and doing things, or drop out completely.

I think you need to fetch yourself a few buckets to catch all the drips of condescension coming off that post.

 lobbywatson wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
This is all a bunch of baseless crap, as is most of the stuff from warseer.

Couldn't agree more. Having a good reputation as a rumor monger(darnok and harry) doesn't mean you're right about everything. This reeks of when my 6 year old tells me a made up story. So over the top no one should believe it.

So, what exactly is the point of the rumour tracker if not to gauge the veracity of said rumours. Hm?

(copy of my post on ordofanaticus.com)

The year: 2015. From out of space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Old World and the Morrsleib, unleashing cosmic destruction! Man's civilization is cast in ruin! Two thousand years later, the Old World is reborn. A strange new world rises from the old: a world of savagery, super science and sorcery.

But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions Nagash the Mok and Everqueen Alarielle, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Ghal Maraz against the forces of evil. He is Karl Franzarr, the Barbarian!

 Albertorius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
Normally, I'd poo poo this type of huge change but D&D did pretty much the same thing with their most popular setting (forgotten realms) with the advent of 4th edition. Granted, WOTC didn't have to worry about invalidating folks' armies of minis but that type of huge shake up with a new edition for a popular and long running product line has precedent within the industry.

Well, to be fair, not only for 4th edition. The Forgotten Realms have been shaken up pretty badly more or less with every new D&D edition.

Very true. I remember the fall-out from the Pool of Radiance series of novels and how that impacted the entire game world.

 Swan-of-War wrote:
(copy of my post on ordofanaticus.com)

The year: 2015. From out of space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Old World and the Morrsleib, unleashing cosmic destruction! Man's civilization is cast in ruin! Two thousand years later, the Old World is reborn. A strange new world rises from the old: a world of savagery, super science and sorcery.

But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions Nagash the Mok and Everqueen Alarielle, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Ghal Maraz against the forces of evil. He is Karl Franzarr, the Barbarian!

Nicely done. Have a round of Thundarrous applause on me.