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Here on Dakka, in nearly every chaos related thread, somebody throws in some comment about how terrible the new chaos codexes are. I haven't played under any old chaos codexes, but I have a copy of the old CSM one, and I don't see a massive difference. Why does everyone hate them?

Seems like the big one is that we lost legion specific armies. No more IW army with pie plates all over the place :(

Because they are terrible. Compare the Daemon Prince in the 3.5 codex and the 4.0 codex. The former is a massively customisable character, with dozens of options for equipment, skills, gifts and psychic powers. The latter has a maximum of four choices:

Do you want wings?
What mark do you want?
If you didn't pick Khorne, do you want a psychic power?
If you picked Tzeentch, do you want a second psychic power?

when people start using a SW codex to play world eaters, as the present C:CSM makes them rubbish, you know its bad.

my main issue is with C:CD, it basically gakked on alot of good fluff, to allow for a sellable army.

They took a brilliant, very customizable codex and removed all the interesting parts. Sure it was left with a few competitive units, but all the flavour was gone. They then went on to split up CSM's and Daemons to make it even less varied and didnt even allow you to take allies as they did with the DH/WH books.

As Bluntman said, they uttery raped the existing fluff to find a way to throw all the deamons into one book just to make it a viabe army.

Having not played the older versions you wouldn't understand what a farse the 4th ed book is, as it is a competitive book (by 4th ed standards). Its just a shadow of its former glory.

The "new" chaos codex also made several units ilegal, ala everything with a sonic weapon that isn't a noise marine.
Although the current codex has several powerful units they are few and far between, meaning that all competative chaos lists start to look the same, ie. 2x DP with lash/warp time, 2x plague marines, 9x obliterators and sometimes you might see some berzerkers.

My personal gripe with the "new" codex is its lack of focus on the legions, in regards to army composition and customisation and fluff.

First off, it would be nice if the CSM had multiple codices like your thread infers. But they do not, they have a single codex and the Daemon codex that is in many ways unrelated. I dont hate the codex, but my frustration rests in the fact that Chaos is a popular army choice and they have so many legions, yet only 1 codex. I think it would be terrific if they broke it into maybe 2-4 more codices and really provided some nice elaborate background, paint schemes, and for that matter -- gave the CSM some better vehicles.

When they nerfed 3.5 to the 4.0 codex, it sucked but we sucked it up. Many of us bowed to the idea that maybe, just maybe the codex was a little too OTT.

The fluff redo, hurt those of us who care about such things. However, there are some who don't really care about fluff, so that wasn't enough to bring out the common animosity you hear today.

However, the thing that brought all former Chaos players together, the thing that caused the real hatred to come was when they then released the new 5th ed SM codex and they gave the loyalists most of all the things they stripped away from the Chaos codex. AV13 dreads, vet skills, etc. WTF.

They have now completely nerfed our glorious, fluffy, fully customizable codex under the pretense of too much power, and now the SMs have everything we lost.

Yeah the CSM codex can produce a very strong build, but our old codex could produce 6 of them. Nothing in the 3.5 codex is still overpowered with the rule changes that came out from the 5.0 rule set and several of the 5.0 codexs that have come out recently.

I don't like how the army became very vanilla, lost a lot of customization. It just lost the "flavor" of chaos in favor of ease of use in my opinion.

Lokirfellheart wrote:Here on Dakka, in nearly every chaos related thread, somebody throws in some comment about how terrible the new chaos codexes are. I haven't played under any old chaos codexes, but I have a copy of the old CSM one, and I don't see a massive difference. Why does everyone hate them?

(Bold added for emphasisi)

Therein lies the problem...

Take a look at the old IG codex or the old marine codex, or Angels of Death or Space Wolves or Dark Eldar...and then compare them to their current version. In those books, a lot has changed, and most for the better.

Chaos unfortunately was developed and written at the tail end of one version of the rules. The books since then were written either concurrently or subsequent to the current version of the rules. They have more options and "fit" better within the current rules and in comparison to one another.

Chalk it up to codex creep juxtaposed with GW's 5-year planned designed obsolescence of a gaming system.

In addition to all the units, wargear, and options that became nonexistent overnight, the loss of legion rules and focus and the wholesale "vanilla-zation" of chaos, invalidation of almost entire armies and model collections, the fluff aspect is what suffered the most.

There's little more than a color scheme and a name attached to most of the Chaos Legions now, about half get a couple paragraphs of description and that's about it.

What were once the dark, dread, and intimate enemies of the Imperium, it's darkest nightmares born from the excesses of its own creation and the very heroes who built the Imperium with their blood and toil who now work tirelessly to destroy it out of hatred, revenge and insanity, is now a motley collection of emo-marines, pirates, and dudes on power trips. No longer do the CSM's seem to be the nigh mythical enemy, spoken of only in whispers, who shake the foundations of existence when they rise to war every few hundred years, but they are simple scattered warbands of broken or renegade troops that seem to be a somewhat mundane and common foe.

There was a poll here last year about the best codex ever.
I think that the CSM codex, ed. 3.5, won it.

*jumps in*

Well, unless you're a tournament player or have unreasonable buddies and/or only play at GW, here's the fix to all your chaos codex problems:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30591124/Chaos-Space-Marine-Codex-Zureal13

'nuff said.

I'm new to the hobby and never saw the old codex so I don't know how they got nerfed. I do however think it's lame that CSM and Daemons are split up, and I don't think CSM really does justice to the awesome variety that exists between the chaos legions

Darkvoidof40k wrote:*jumps in*

Well, unless you're a tournament player or have unreasonable buddies and/or only play at GW, here's the fix to all your chaos codex problems:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30591124/Chaos-Space-Marine-Codex-Zureal13

'nuff said.

This intrigues me.. Fandex?

I haven't played under any old chaos codexes, but I have a copy of the old CSM one, and I don't see a massive difference.

I'd be willing to bet the old one you have is the 3rd edition codex instead of the 3.5 one. The one with the dark red border and the close-up shot of a pale CSM.

I agree with slave, the one you want is this one:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I agree with slave, the one you want is this one:

That's the one I have.

Lokirfellheart wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I agree with slave, the one you want is this one:

That's the one I have.

This is the one you want.

I got hold of the 3.5 edition Chaos Space Marine Codex, it was pretty damn cool. Still, I doubt that Chaos Space Marine players will be waiting TOO long for a new Codex-It's been out for a while, after all.

Still, what you've got t bear in mind is that if they made the Chaos Codex any better-or even Equal-to the bogstandard Space Marine Codex, the 12-year-old population of 40K players would stop playing becaus they couldn't be garunteed of winning anymore. I pity Games Workshop-They are shackled to the whims of their 12-year old fans, and boy, do they have crazy whims.

Poor Games Workshop!

The 4th ed chaos codex is complete gak. It and whoever wrote it can burn in the warp for their sins.

Like I say, not their fault.

I blame the 12-year-olds.

Burn them! BURN THEM, AND SACRIFICE THEIR SOULS TO THE WARP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Squigsquasher wrote:Like I say, not their fault.

I blame the 12-year-olds.

Burn them! BURN THEM, AND SACRIFICE THEIR SOULS TO THE WARP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eh, I'm fourteen so I'm good. Besides, it's GWs fault for listening them to the first place, if they even had any influence in the design of the codex at all.

Honestly, I don't hold out much hope for the next Chaos codex.. no Daemons, and almost certainly no Chaos gifts (or atleast not as upgrades - maybe something like that eye of the gods thing that the Warriors of Chaos have got going in Fantasy) considering what happened with the 'nid 'dex. Everything has to be simple and similar as possible with them now.

I would settle for USRs commonly available. They took them away from the 10,000 year old veteran warriors but left them to the relative spring chickens that are Loyalist marines.

Anything remotely as good as the current Loyalist codices (sans the poor,poor DAs) would make me happy.

Just a codex where you didn't have automatic choices to take for each FOC slot (DP, Plague/Khorne Marines,Oblits) and at least something worthwhile in the FA slot.

Darkvoidof40k wrote:

Lokirfellheart wrote:

Shas'O Dorian wrote:I agree with slave, the one you want is this one:

That's the one I have.

This is the one you want.

YAAAAAYYYYYY hes killing an ultramarine!

To bad they got him back by blowing a hole in his chest and putting the photo on the front of their codex

^ Nawh, thats a pocket-sized lascannon, 'cept he doesn't have any pockets so he strapped it to his belly.

Anyways, the actual army list in there is even more awesome than the front cover.. well, slightly.

I long for the days my Word Bearers could summon any type of deamon and had Dark Apostles....

Does everyone ignore the awesome fandex I posted a link to? It makes me sad. Those rules have given me cause to start a Chaos force in the near future. Legion rules, decent special characters and an AWESOME army list. Hell, GW should just take that fandex, slap some fluff in it and give Mr. Zureal13 a big bag o' cash.

Is this a fandex? i have the most recent and the one posted before this one.

That is the front of a fandex - if you scroll up the page I have posted the link.