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here is a question, we all know that the warp is basically a mirror image of the material universe. The daemons of the warp are basically manifestations of emotions from the material world now if that's the case wouldn't that mean the the 4 big gods aren't the only gods

we all know the story of malal the anti chaos chaos god but what about other emotions like LOVE and kindness surely they would have a small flicker in the warp - I am only asking since I find daemon very bland and not that varied in terms of conversions (you can only be 1 of the big 4) whilst I understand most of the smaller gods like malal are very weak they could still be a big force not to be messed with (its not like love stopped existing in 40K)

I beieve Malal was retconned quite a while back so isnt really a god anymore.

There is some fluff to support that the 4 gods arent just representative of murder and hate, death and decay, change and scheming and excess and decadence but they also have (or had) a possitive side.

Khorne was meant to represent honour and valour...but has eventually escalated to become the "MAIM KILL BURN" we have today.

Nurgle was meant to represent care and a family-like type of love, hence the name "grandfather nurgle" and his "gifts" remove all suffering and pain from his followers.

ect ect.

just an opinion but, I think the warp is a mirror flickering the darker thoughts of the original universe. or more precise, it is the collector, a vacuum that collects the darker emotions, to feed the primordial annihilators. The projections of greater good images generally reflect to the universe, the material world, in example of the God Emperor etc.

Just an opinion though

Nurgle is life, love and kindness.

I litterally just put this on another thread 5 minutes ago and this is my view on the warp and our realm of existence........

Chaos feeds off the war and various other wrong-doings of intelligent life. Without this fuel... this energy the Chaos gods gain from their mortal followers. They would lose their primary hold on the material realm of existence.
How I put their control into perspective is this; imagine the universe as a huge piece of paper (or something else flat), then imagine a similar sized piece of paper right above it. The distance between the two fluctuating in various areas due to the random occurrences such as the eye of terror and various warp storms. Now, each intelligent creature that fall's to the worship of chaos makes a infinitesimally small dot on this plane that represents the universe. These conduits of mortals minds located in their actual planet/star-cluster ect. However it is not just a dot but a connection between the two planes, a conduit through which the gods can assert their will. This one dot however has very, very small influence on the material realm. This is why they spread their influence to others. This one small dot/conduit pools together as more followers in this area are obtained. The conduit getting ever wider with more influence. This allows massive amounts of the chaos gods whim to be delivered to our plain of existence. (this is where exterminatus comes in). The eye of terror is a perfect example of this, where the consciousness of Chaos has gotten so great it has broken through consciousness and into even the visible spectrum.

This is just how I view the 40k universe though.....

You've got me thinking...

If the Tau have no presence in the warp do their emotions contribute to Deamons and other warp entities?

obsidianaura wrote:You've got me thinking...

If the Tau have no presence in the warp do their emotions contribute to Deamons and other warp entities?

Supposedly not. Neither do Orks, they are too obsessed with Gork and Mork. I think its just the humans and eldar that cause the trouble

Gorechild wrote:

obsidianaura wrote:You've got me thinking...

If the Tau have no presence in the warp do their emotions contribute to Deamons and other warp entities?

Supposedly not. Neither do Orks, they are too obsessed with Gork and Mork. I think its just the humans and eldar that cause the trouble

actually I read a while ago that they do feed the gods (mostly khorne) but orks are so dumb they simply attack the daemons - there was a story where orks began attacking some imps and bloodletters began appearing and fighting with orks and the orks simply attacked the blood-letters.

Gorechild wrote:I beieve Malal was retconned quite a while back so isnt really a god anymore.

There is some fluff to support that the 4 gods arent just representative of murder and hate, death and decay, change and scheming and excess and decadence but they also have (or had) a possitive side.

Khorne was meant to represent honour and valour...but has eventually escalated to become the "MAIM KILL BURN" we have today.

Nurgle was meant to represent care and a family-like type of love, hence the name "grandfather nurgle" and his "gifts" remove all suffering and pain from his followers.

ect ect.

and I think he wasn't fully retconned - we know chaos daemons can go against the gods (belkor or something like that) also there are space marine chapters that worship some chaos god (sons of malice I believe) - my main thoughts are mainly for creating your own daemon chapters, most armies have amazing amounts of freedom to create (orks space marine etc) but daemons can only be 1 of the 4 (seems very restrictive)

The following paragraphs taken from Realm of Chaos The Lost and the Damned show what a warp god is essentially.

'The raw warp stuff of Chaos is mindless and unthinking, but has a consciousness of its own. It is aware only in the crudest ways, growing and evolving only through chance and random action. Within Warpspace, the fabric of Chaos ebbs and flows, forming eddies and vortices of pressure and potential energy, concentrating power in relatively ‘small’ locales.

These swirls and eddies, great warp storms that can seal of huge tracts of Warp space (and real space – spacecraft are unable to navigate warp storms), are capable of unimaginable acts of creation and destruction. The storms are the Powers of Chaos, its lords and masters, formed of the endlessly fluid fabric of their universe.

Other warp storm Powers, the more formidable of their kind, however, achieve coherence of a different order, and they are able to manipulate the warp around themselves, holding the fabric of the warp in a pattern of their own choosing. Such Chaos Powers will wax and wane with the flow of the warp, but their core of intelligence and personality remains, protected by its own power. The great Powers of Chaos – Khorne, Slaanesh, Nurgle and Tzeentch – are beings of this magnitude.'


Daemons can be created in various ways. They can be created individually based on the thoughts, feelings, desires, hopes and fears et cetera of mortals given form and life by the warp, those emotions can then either dissipate into the warp and feed the larger warp beings, like the gods, or can be devoured by other warp beings lending them greater power. Those beings can then create their own daemons based on a facet of themselves. The warp can also give rise to such creatures naturally, they just form out of the swirling stuff of the warp.

there are space marine chapters that worship some chaos god

Chaos Space Marines by any chance?

You could create fluff for your own daemons army and use other models to represent them and simply use the rules from Codex: Chaos Daemons. ie, use the boodletters rules but with different models and come up with some fluff and a different name ect. it woudnt be official but it would do the job.

In the 40k universe negative emotions far outwiegh the positive. Those beings created by the negative emotions will consume the entities created by weaker emotions like a predatory animal.

Mr Nobody wrote:In the 40k universe negative emotions far outwiegh the positive. Those beings created by the negative emotions will consume the entities created by weaker emotions like a predatory animal.

the love of the emperor begs too differ the fact that they love him so much would suggest a powerful warp entity of love should exist

Gods :
Slannesh
Tzentch
Nurgle
Khorne
God-Emporer
Vaul
Khaine
Isha
The C'tan Gods (Nightbringer, voi-dragon, etc)
Gork & Mork
I think ive left loads others out but there are many ....

Daykinator wrote:Gods :
Slannesh
Tzentch
Nurgle
Khorne
God-Emporer
Vaul
Khaine
Isha
The C'tan Gods (Nightbringer, voi-dragon, etc)
Gork & Mork
I think ive left loads others out but there are many ....

do gork and mork leave a presece in the warp if so could they like khorne and other chaos gods summon pieces of him and make gork and mork lesser daemons? imagine ork army using daemon rules

Gork and Mork are too cunnin' to use chaos rules. The C'tan are another oddity on that list, being that they are sort of the real-space versions of Chaos gods, ridiculously powerful in their realm, but not so much in the other.

What about the Eldar gods? Are they warp entities like the others?

Mr Nobody wrote:In the 40k universe negative emotions far outweigh the positive. Those beings created by the negative emotions will consume the entities created by weaker emotions like a predatory animal.

Very true, negative emotions are much more.... how should I put it..... contagious? fear, sorrow, anger, lust, gluttony, etc. they all go deeper than all positive emotions. This can be seen in world leaders... a leader who is loved can make a mistake and that mistake ruin his reputation and even his position. however.... a leader that is feared can make any mistake he wants and his followers are just to scared to do anything about it.

but come on with so many saints in 40k like lord solar macharius and emperor they were loved like no others and so does every space marine chapter love their primarch (in their own way) sure fear, anger and all other negative emotions exist but how can you say they outweigh the other - this got me thinking, would it be possible too make a Emperor warp army i.e use daemon rules but make it as though the emperor is making saints and angels fight for him - the holy daemon army

yevix wrote:but come on with so many saints in 40k like lord solar macharius and emperor they were loved like no others and so does every space marine chapter love their primarch (in their own way) sure fear, anger and all other negative emotions exist but how can you say they outweigh the other - this got me thinking, would it be possible too make a Emperor warp army i.e use daemon rules but make it as though the emperor is making saints and angels fight for him - the holy daemon army

yes, this would make warp entities of love; however, these entities are consumed by other, bigger entities, usually negative ones. Any positive emotions are quickly destroyed in the warp, though saints do cause some indigestion in the warp.

Sanguinor

(i summon Shrike the hater of all things Blood Angels )

The negative things in life far out weigh the good, in reality (our world) how often do you see/hear of something major good happening in the world, harldy ever if at all, murder, rape, terroism, wars and natural disaters happen almost monthly and we get told about these via media and hearsay, even though you may not be part of them you still have some pity/sadness/anger for or towards those involved. Yet personal happines gettin married, having kids, friendships and good times dont really make a dent to the world wide sadness.

In 40k there is very little for people to be happy about on the whole, the constant threat of death, salvery, submission, forced labour and war on a galactic scale. So i think what little good emotions there are hold back the forces of chaos and even if they do not admit it they fear it. Hope and love are not weak emotions and love is always stronger than hate and hope along with love are reasons people will fight, in our world as wll as in 40k.

There are plenty of different gods in the warp.

I believe it was in the old Hoards of Chaos book.

"There are countless lesser dieties that exist in the warp,however they are nothing compared the four great powers" and in an old WD,"Worship of these gods usuallys ends up feeding one of the four great powers in the end".

As for possitive emotions,I was said somewhere that they they do not exist in a strong enough and unified force to have any impact in the warp.
Plus I'm sure belief in the Emperor is what feeds "the star child".

Melkhiordarkblade wrote:There are plenty of different gods in the warp.


"There are countless lesser dieties that exist in the warp,however they are nothing compared the four great powers" and in an old WD,"Worship of these gods usuallys ends up feeding one of the four great powers in the end".

As for possitive emotions,I was said somewhere that they they do not exist in a strong enough and unified force to have any impact in the warp.
Plus I'm sure belief in the Emperor is what feeds "the star child".

This doesnt make sense, the four main gods fight each other for domain all the time each has variable strength and stuff like furies exist who are souls who didnt support the chaos god and wanted too use the warp for their own ends they aren't subdued by other chaos gods, they sorta exist separately here is a lexicanum quote

"It is said that Furies are formed from the souls of mortals who preferred to use Chaos for their own gain rather than seeking the patronage of a Chaos God. Without a deity to claim their souls, they are unable to enter a gods realm and thus forced to spend their existence drifting aimlessly through the warp, exposed to its unpredictable nature."

I know not the best source of information but it sorta suggest that each god has domain and realms and outside is a free for all with many gods and entities existing and fighting surely a small flicker of good can exist. Think of nurgle, sometimes he is weaker then all the other chaos gods and sometimes he is stronger then all the other 3 put together, wouldn't that suggest that a weaker force like love of emperor and imperium could exist - also why would it be small I mean think about it we have faith from sisters of battle powered by some unseen force of small miracles (some suggest emperors doing) and BILLIONS of worlds with a lot of them having faith thrust down their throat, Imperium still uses bloody priests in battle and flagellants etc

gloomygrim wrote:
The negative things in life far out weigh the good, in reality (our world) how often do you see/hear of something major good happening in the world, harldy ever if at all, murder, rape, terroism, wars and natural disaters happen almost monthly and we get told about these via media and hearsay, even though you may not be part of them you still have some pity/sadness/anger for or towards those involved. Yet personal happines gettin married, having kids, friendships and good times dont really make a dent to the world wide sadness.

In 40k there is very little for people to be happy about on the whole, the constant threat of death, salvery, submission, forced labour and war on a galactic scale. So i think what little good emotions there are hold back the forces of chaos and even if they do not admit it they fear it. Hope and love are not weak emotions and love is always stronger than hate and hope along with love are reasons people will fight, in our world as wll as in 40k.

Sure I see your point but you are looking at things with statistics, 100 people committed murder whilst only 10 saved lives therefore more evil exist, but these are emotion can a negative emotion be worse then a positive one (is there a statistical rating system), sure you will cry at the death of your father but you could feel more happiness at the birth of your child (hypothetically) think of it this way lets say there are 10 planets full death murder rape etc and only 3 planets full of Ecclesiarchy nutjobs - the ten worlds may be ruled by fear, hate, war etc but those 3 worlds could be full of faith driven mad men who love emperor more then they fear death heck they would kill themselves if it meant the emperor would be pleased and they could have a bigger impact then those 10 evil worlds.

And I am only talking 13 worlds Imperium has billions and a lot have faith driven nutjobs

holy daemons here I come, I can already see them with eagle heads, gold armor maybe use gryphons from fantasy as greater daemons etc

yevix holy deamons in gold armour with eagal heads? legendary man, if you do em post some pics man id like to see them