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Hey all, I have a question regarding legality...

I'm going to start by saying that I hate how Chaos Marines are said to have old or out of date technology and weapons.

So, I'm writing a custom codex that pretty much modernizes Chaos Marines, by coming from the standpoint of a SM Chapter that fell to Chaos - The Lost Crusaders.

Here's where my question comes in. Is this actually legal? I know GW has some strict rules, and before I go and write this, is it even allowed to do this?

I wasn't planning on playing tournaments with this codex - I have a ~2000 point Chaos Marines army already. This will be for fun play with friends, which is why I figured it was okay.

Any opinions?

I think any local gamer who doesn't allow this is either an extremely pedantic know-it-all or GW's personal b*tch-Both of which I have encoutered (Shudder)

Ah, okay. I figured as much, lmao.

My 40k group is fine with it, so I was just making sure that if I bring it up at my local GW I wont get arrested. xD

Be careful when customising a Codex. Had a friend who created a 'Custodes Codex'. Getting the absolute gak kicked out of your army by 10 nigh-on-unkillable models is not exceptionally fun.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Be careful when customising a Codex. Had a friend who created a 'Custodes Codex'. Getting the absolute gak kicked out of your army by 10 nigh-on-unkillable models is not exceptionally fun.

We've been discussing what I've written for a few weeks now. We just finalized HQs today. xD

So far, HQs are okay, as are Troops

ALSO,
I forgot to mention that the army is NOT centered around Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaneesh.

It's based on 6 demigods, who give different abilities, etc. I didn't want to just add new units. I even wrote new fluff.

I feel quite accomplished.

If your friends are cool with it, whatever man. Tournaments will say no. Pick up games at your FLGS will be met with skepticism at best, and flat out refusal at worst.

No, making your own codex is not legal. As mentioned, if your friends are cool that's fine, but you're risking triggering an escalating fan-dex war, here.

If you don't like the CSM codex, but want to run CSM, then take CSM models and fluff, but use the regular marine's codex as far as rules are concerned.

I mean, they just converted to chaos, why wouldn't they be like regular marines?

Emperors Faithful wrote:Be careful when customising a Codex. Had a friend who created a 'Custodes Codex'. Getting the absolute gak kicked out of your army by 10 nigh-on-unkillable models is not exceptionally fun.

Thanks for the preview of the GK codex

OH. SNAP.


Though the same could be said for SW and BA, really.

Ailaros wrote:No, making your own codex is not legal. As mentioned, if your friends are cool that's fine, but you're risking triggering an escalating fan-dex war, here.

If you don't like the CSM codex, but want to run CSM, then take CSM models and fluff, but use the regular marine's codex as far as rules are concerned.

I mean, they just converted to chaos, why wouldn't they be like regular marines?

What do you mean by fan-dex war?

Also, I really wanted to write all new fluff and all, which is why I'm not doing what you said.

But it certainly makes sense that I can't use it at tournaments. Like I said, I can use regular Chaos Marines for that.

Basically, you just wrote an 'updated' CSM codex. One of your friends decides he's going to 'update' his Eldar, and now the Eldar are better than the CSM. Someone else decides to 'update' Tau, etc. etc. People keep trying to outdo one another with their custom codexes.

ChrisWWII wrote:Basically, you just wrote an 'updated' CSM codex. One of your friends decides he's going to 'update' his Eldar, and now the Eldar are better than the CSM. Someone else decides to 'update' Tau, etc. etc. People keep trying to outdo one another with their custom codexes.

It's a whole new codex... Almost nothing is the same. The infantry section has regular CSM, Scouts, and something that I called Templars - pretty much Death Company, but a little worse.

None of the Gods are the same either. Like I said above, I'm using Demigods.

Although I certainly see your point.

You can write anything you like to use at home with friends. Just don't publish it.

Kilkrazy wrote:You can write anything you like to use at home with friends. Just don't publish it.

Okay, yeah. That was another question.

I was going to ask, "Can I share it online when I finish it?" Which was the biggest "thin line" part of this all.

Keatonic wrote:What do you mean by fan-dex war?

You: My guardsmen come from an elite forge world. All my guard squads cost 100 points, but come with power weapons on everyone.

(you destroy your friend horribly for a few games)

Friend: I've now started a "Death's Herald" space marine army. My tac squads cost 200 points base, but they come with a 3+ invul save.

(your friend destroys you for awhile).

Other Friend: My eldar come from a super secret craft world. All their shuriken weapons ignore armor and invul saves for free.

You: I actually just updated my codex to make it more fluffy. My guardsmen now cost 1 point apiece and, when making a shooting attack, if any of my guardsmen roll a 6 on a to-hit roll, I just win the game.

Ailaros wrote:

Keatonic wrote:What do you mean by fan-dex war?

You: My guardsmen come from an elite forge world. All my guard squads cost 100 points, but come with power weapons on everyone.

(you destroy your friend horribly for a few games)

Friend: I've now started a "Death's Herald" space marine army. My tac squads cost 200 points base, but they come with a 3+ invul save.

(your friend destroys you for awhile).

Other Friend: My eldar come from a super secret craft world. All their shuriken weapons ignore armor and invul saves for free.

You: I actually just updated my codex to make it more fluffy. My guardsmen now cost 1 point apiece and, when making a shooting attack, if any of my guardsmen roll a 6 on a to-hit roll, I just win the game.

Except that's not happening, because I've been going over every part of it with my friends until we all think it's fair.

But I see what you mean.

The thing is you can write all the fluff you want without writing a new codex. My Guard started out as a recon company, so I just did everything I could to reinforce that fact - lots of light infantry with no heavy weapons, lots of scout sentinels and hellhounds, and very little in the way of armor. I didn't need to write a new codex just to reflect my army's fluff.

What kind of changes do you have in mind that justify a new codex?

DrownedRat117 wrote:I think any local gamer who doesn't allow this is either an extremely pedantic know-it-all or GW's personal b*tch-Both of which I have encoutered (Shudder)

Thank you!!!

And, I hope the OP realizes that there are viable and dangerous builds for Chaos, they require something that many players struggle with: effort. Being an old codex, there are a lot of options, wargear, etc. This all helps to set Chaos from the rest of the Marine codexes. And remember, the Chaos Marines are still using old and scavenged equipment, hence the lack of Whirlwinds. The holes are quickly filled by Chaos unique units, like Daemon Princes and the like.

Keatonic wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:You can write anything you like to use at home with friends. Just don't publish it.

Okay, yeah. That was another question.

I was going to ask, "Can I share it online when I finish it?" Which was the biggest "thin line" part of this all.

You need to be extremely careful in how you do that. You need the disclaimer in regards to the trademarks and you need to ensure that it in no way appears to be official.

I think he's basically rewriting the entire Chaos Codex, fluff and everything...

Keatonic wrote:It's a whole new codex... Almost nothing is the same. The infantry section has regular CSM, Scouts, and something that I called Templars - pretty much Death Company, but a little worse.

None of the Gods are the same either. Like I said above, I'm using Demigods.

At least that's what it seems like he's trying to do.

If he's done it well then I applaud him.

If, however, it's Mary-Sue-tastic like 99% of fan codexes then it should be burnt with cleansing fire.

Hence my apprehension. It's fine to modify existing codecies (heck, that's what Proposed Rules is all about), but a complete overhaul rarely works out great.

Scott-S6 wrote:If, however, it's Mary-Sue-tastic like 99% of fan codexes then it should be burnt with cleansing fire.

Come now, there shouldn't even be an 'if' at the beginning of that sentence.

Making sweeping changes to the setting bothers me, because it reeks of laziness. The 40k universe is vast and ancient. There are actual Chaos demi-gods if you look deep enough in the lore. Hell, I've got a Dreadnought dedicated to Malal. If you have to write your own material you either don't know or care enough about the setting. The former is easily remedied: go to Lexicanum and try to find lore that mirrors what you've written, and work that into the current codex before writing your own rules. Less is always more in fan-fiction.

The problem is being biased on your own codex. Players tend to get into the thinking of building a army were they want to fill every weakness and gap in there rules. But more power to ya for getting the motivation for a feat.

Not a fan of this . You wanna role play, there is a dedicated table top rpg. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480007a&categoryId=1100009§ion=&aId=4900004

Use the codex's provided, and develop cool fluff for your army.

If your chaos is from a post heresy army, use the proper weapons, just use choas equivalent stat lines. (They may appear the same, but the powers of chaos has twisted the mechanics of it or something)

Remember, your friends will be using standard rules, so dont get carried away (which normally happens).

DarkHound wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:If, however, it's Mary-Sue-tastic like 99% of fan codexes then it should be burnt with cleansing fire.

Come now, there shouldn't even be an 'if' at the beginning of that sentence.

Making sweeping changes to the setting bothers me, because it reeks of laziness. The 40k universe is vast and ancient. There are actual Chaos demi-gods if you look deep enough in the lore. Hell, I've got a Dreadnought dedicated to Malal. If you have to write your own material you either don't know or care enough about the setting. The former is easily remedied: go to Lexicanum and try to find lore that mirrors what you've written, and work that into the current codex before writing your own rules. Less is always more in fan-fiction.

Thank you for posting this! I was completely unaware of the demigods! I will have to read up and add this info. I'm being completely serious. I love the 40k universe, and anything I can read about it I do.

There are, I think, two different meanings of "legal" being used here.

It's not game-legal, as in "allowed within the rules of the game", but you can alter the rules of the game however you want as long as you and your friends agree. What game rules you use at home is entirely your business.

It's real-world-law legal, in the sense that there's no law against writing your own homemade rules for a game, an army, a unit, or whatever. But presenting it as a officially for or a saleable product for 40k would be against the law, a violation of GW's intellectual property. You just need to make sure you use appropriate disclaimers. People write up optional homemade rules all the time; that's what the Proposed Rules forum here is for. And there's at least one whole new Chaos codex in there already, IIRC.

Basically, no for tournaments, the competitive edge requires strict adherence to established rules.

For the FLGS, be careful, they are GW's minions.

If it's at your local club or amongst friends who are fine with it, there's nothing to stop you. Wargaming was originally spawned from role-playing and basically, the most important rule applies: The most important rule is that the rules aren't all that important! So long as both players agree, you can treat them as sacrosanct or as mere guidelines - the choice is entirely yours. (quoted from page 2 of 5th Ed rulebook). Creating a new Codex would fall under these criteria.


On an almost related note, it's quite a shame that players no longer need opponent's permission to field special characters in fifth ed, because the over-powered plonkers in some of the newer Codicies can kill the fun (Swarmlord, Vulkan He'stan: I'm looking at you).

GoldenKaos wrote:For the FLGS, be careful, they are GW's minions.

This needs to be stressed. GWs probably won't let you run custom rules in their shop. I've had them tell me I can't even put my scratch built Grot-tanks on the table, and those have official rules.

the over-powered plonkers in some of the newer Codicies can kill the fun (Swarmlord, Vulkan He'stan: I'm looking at you).

wat

If you have to write your own material you either don't know or care enough about the setting

I assume you feel the same about home-brew chapters of Space Marines?

The warp is full of demigods who don't get mentioned in the fluff, and they can be as varied as your imagination.

As for legality, GW takes a very expansive view of their copy and trademark rights. Any attempt to reap commercial benefut from the codex could get you sued by GW. Posting about Warhammer on a site with ads might be enough to for them to sic the lawyers on you.

But you wouldn't get arrested.