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I'm assuming everyone has heard of the Land Raider Achilles, but I have a question for it: In its entry it says the Land Raider Achilles is not subject to the Lance and Melta rules. And here in my Imperial Guard Codex I'm reading about the Medusa Bastion-Breacher Shells, which supposedly gets 2d6 dice to penetrate. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this make for an epic LRA killer?

Yes

Yup. Just like Ordinance weapons with high str and AP, chainfists, melta-bombs, and all the rest of the tank-killing weapons out there. Lance and melta are a surprising minority of tank-poppers once one looks outside of the box.

another tank killer: leman russ vanquisher, it rolls an extra d6 always for armor pen, but that gun seriously lacks crowd control, but yes, it is a brutal AT gun (heck, thats what it was designed for, provided it can survive long enough to even shoot.

But the crux of that one is that the Leman Russ Vanquisher is horrible.

If the Vanquisher cost 180 points but could load battlecannon rounds? Best tank in the game that would be completely meta-changing.

Jaon wrote:If the Vanquisher cost 180 points but could load battlecannon rounds? Best tank in the game that would be completely meta-changing.

It used to do that... 175 points and could take a veteran skill for an additional 20. At least the Imperial Armor Vanquishers can take co-axial mounted stubbers.

The demonolisher Cannon is also very good. after that we are talking chainfists or dreadnoughts for regular marines.

The trusty melta-vet can still inflict damage when they're numerous enough, say two squads should do it though at an dangerous attrition value.

I also miss the old Vanquisher....

Back to the OP:

Do you play much Apocalypse? Since its an apocalypse / forge-world unit, and most people only play regular 40k, most of us will never see it in a game. If your gaming group goes beyond the regular codexes, depending on the army you play, you have equally devastating weapons to deal with it. Baneblade D-weapons are a good start. : )

Dashofpepper wrote:Back to the OP:

Do you play much Apocalypse? Since its an apocalypse / forge-world unit, and most people only play regular 40k, most of us will never see it in a game. If your gaming group goes beyond the regular codexes, depending on the army you play, you have equally devastating weapons to deal with it. Baneblade D-weapons are a good start. : )

Its rules state it can be taken as a Heavy Support choice in a standard game though, making it permissible outside of Apoc. One of our good friends where we play actually ended up getting two because the first took so long to get to him they shipped him a second and allowed him to keep both. Regardless of being argumentative, one of the best ways to deal with it, like any Land Raider, is Khorne greater daemons. Lots of them.

Azure, its rules say that its role in a regular game is in a heavy support slot, not that it may freely be taken as a heavy support choice in a standard game.

A "standard" game is restricted to the 40k rulebook and codexes. No IA units or Forgeworld units (except those units created for condex entries, like a forgeworld nob biker, etc). The same holds true for tournaments. You will never have to worry about seeing a Land Raider Achilles in a game unless you are having a private game with someone and consent to use non-codex units and rules. For any type of organized play or tournaments....nope.

I'm not saying that such events don't exist, because I'm sure they do. I'm pretty widely traveled and I've never seen or participated in one though - TOs would rather keep rules simple for the benefit of everyone there. Even at Adepticon where you can use a super-heavy in the gladiator, I'm not sure you can use other Forgeworld creations.