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This is my first thread so if I've made any mistakes please tell me and I'll try to correct them

Form what I have see of the new Grey knight codex it's looking very good. but what is going to be the main weaknesses to the army. That is where I need your expertise of your many different armies.

If what I've heard is correct and all the knight count as psykers, the witch hunters will be very affective against the with all their anti psyker equipement. This includes things such as
the culexus assassin with it's soulless, phychic abomination, psyker assassin and life drain special rules.
The old style psychic hood.
Sisters of battle rule shield of faith.
Hammer of the witches psychic power.
The arco-flagelants with their many power weapon attacks should destroy the power armour and terminator armour.
Inferno pistols and meltas should also kill those knight.

So over to you guy

Ap 3 pie plates kill any power armor goodness.

I want to say "this new Codex has no weaknesses and is broken", but I'd hate to stand out from the crowd...


However, a serious disadvantage for most GK armies is and always has been Low Model Count and Mech.

So orks and nids would be very affective against them
Maybe it's time for me to bring my orks back to the table and start gaming with them again

We won't know till they are played in touranment to see the weakness and strenght of the GK codex.

IG, they can't stop the psychic, but they can lower leadership with psycher squads and leman russ the hell out of em.


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Devilduckii wrote:So orks and nids would be very affective against them
Maybe it's time for me to bring my orks back to the table and start gaming with them again

Don't bring nobs.

As much as people would like you to believe "NOTHING CAN BEAT THEM I'M GOING TO QUIT 40K BECAUSE OF THIS WAAAAAAAAARD", they've got the same weaknesses as a normal space mairne army, and then some. They really won't hold up against hordes, there's only so much they can do in one turn, which is significantly less than, say, Tyranids or Orks. Also, anything with AP3 or less will sweep the board of power armour.

I just want to be ready for the when the come. Lots of people form my local GW sound very interested in them. I hope this wont be space wolfs part 2.

I'd disagree with them being weak against hordes actually, Incinerators, Dreadknights and mass storm bolters should really do a number on horde armies IMHO.

However, they still suffer from having a low model count, weakness to AP3 and vulnerability to mech.

Surtur wrote:IG, they can't stop the psychic, but they can lower leadership with psycher squads and leman russ the hell out of em.



Thats sounding good. For a momment I somehow forgot about the IG.

Surtur wrote:IG, they can't stop the psychic, but they can lower leadership with psycher squads

GHaven't seen the codex yet, but I would assume they are still Fearless? If so, lowering their LD really isn't going to do anything. But the PBS large blast can still put a hurt on them, with a 50% chance of beating 3+ armor.

So orks and nids would be very affective against them
Maybe it's time for me to bring my orks back to the table and start gaming with them again

Honestly this codex is death to Horde armies. Nids might be ok because of shadows of the warp, but orks are screwed. Cleansing flame is the most broken power, and you have the potential to do it 7 times before combat begins.

Here orks, let's wound your entire 30 boy squad on 4+ per model before combat begins. Wait let me do that a few more times.... Stupid unbalanced.

In close combat it depends on a lot of factors, but so far GK's are going to be pretty darn tough to beat. Best bet is to shoot them at range with low AP stuff.

Hordes definitely have huge disadvantages against GK lists that feature Purifiers to any extent.

Mech is still their least favorite matchup; fast mech doubly so.

PBS will be an exceptionally poor choice against them.

First: It is a unit full of Psykers; so all sorts of weapons get all sorts of Bonus abilities against them.

Second: There is going to be at least 1 Psychic Hood in every GK army, if not more(again we will have to wait for the Final Codex)

Third: The Aegis; even without Hoods getting the powers off will be a little more difficult.

Fourth: Weaken resolve expires at the end of the Guard player's turn; so the only effect you can get from it is to ensure the knight run for a turn, or to prevent Force weapon activation in the Assault Phase that turn(not that the knights would bother)

Fifth: Whatever Psyk-out grenades do; I am sure the PBS will hate them.

can we wait and see the codex, and of course, *gasp* play the Grey knights before assessing their weaknesses and strengths?

No.

Note to self: more fast mech....lol

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:can we wait and see the codex

A lot of people have already read the codex, myself included.
After talking with some extremely experienced players, they noted that the most powerful builds probably will have PAGK spam, it's going to be nasty. Daemons are essentially screwed against them, too. They have a lot of fun toys, but at the end of the day they can field a hugely competitive army. Also, while people are talking about Plasma being extremely effective against them, there's some sort of way (With Inquisitors I believe) that they can make Plasma essentially worthless at 12". I believe it makes models within 12" of the Inquisitor BS1 with Plasma or something like that.

So would that mean plasma cannons instead of plasma rifles would be the way to go then? Keep out ot 12" and still drop AP2 death on them?

Just Dave wrote:I want to say "this new Codex has no weaknesses and is broken", but I'd hate to stand out from the crowd...

I don't think you would stand out at all. Spamming henchmen in vehicles is the definition of broken. The codex needs an FAQ. If it were me I would require that every henchman squad need an Inquisitor even if you take Cortez and make them take up troop slots.

I sat down with the codex yesterday and got a headache. Literally. I can't play a winning game against this codex with my Space Marines. I think my best bet is guard. Russes: demolisher, battle cannon and executioner, and just spam them. Conscript commissar blobs. Detpack special weapon squads.

Every nemesis weapon is a force weapon. Every GK has a nemesis weapon. PAGKs are 20pts base. Every one of their vehicles can ignore stun and shaken via psychic power. And the plasma syphon is 40pts total IIRC (any inquiz is 25pts, the syphon was 15 I think). Librarians are 150 base, with termy armor and 2 powers per turn, you buy as many powers as you like for 5 a pop. The dreadknight only weighs in at 130 points base with 4 wounds and s and t of 6, more than enough to make every nid player cry. Oh, and 2 DCCW base as well. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I HATE THIS DEX.

spaceelf wrote:

Just Dave wrote:I want to say "this new Codex has no weaknesses and is broken", but I'd hate to stand out from the crowd...

I don't think you would stand out at all. Spamming henchmen in vehicles is the definition of broken. The codex needs an FAQ. If it were me I would require that every henchman squad need an Inquisitor even if you take Cortez and make them take up troop slots.

Actually, I was making a sarcastic comment about all the people screaming about the Codex being broken etc. when it hasn't been released and/or they haven't seen a copy for themselves...

As far as I can tell, the best way to beat Grey Knights will be to tear them apart from range with heavy weapons. It seems to me that one of the best weapons against them will be lascannon spam. Lots of long range anti tank will bring down Dreadknights, and I can likely spam enough firepower to drown Termies in wounds. They can't pass EVERY 2+ save, and even Paladins go down to S8 weapons.

I still say this all speculation. We need to wait for a few more months before we can REALLY figure out what Grey Knights are, and how we can counter them. They're going to be tough, but they won't be invincible.

Just Dave wrote: Actually, I was making a sarcastic comment about all the people screaming about the Codex being broken etc. when it hasn't been released and/or they haven't seen a copy for themselves...

But a lot of people have seen it, you can go into most any store now and see it, most of the more horrifying rumors were true, and some people have already started play testing from it.

I think most armies can still compete against it, but I think it is at the very minimum going to throw a huge wrentch in the meta. Libby's and psychic defense are going to be a must. I think THSS termies will be the GK bane, so they will be even more popular (if that is possible). I think raiders will be hard for builds without inquisitors. Jump heavy blood angels would be good except the whole army has power weapons so you are going to take extreme casualties every time you charge.

I do think it's too early to say it has broken the game, but I think there is more than enough to say this is changing the game.

However, if psychic defense becomes a must, some armies become ABSOLUTELY screwed, while some will struggle a lot more. As stated in the "Proposed rules: Game-Wide Psychic defense", some armies, are nearly devoid of psychic defense, namely Tau, (not sure if CSM do), and Orks, (though the only real things orks have to worry about is purifying flame, and the heavy weapons to pop their vehicles). So Green Tide may become more difficult to play.

Also, remember, that many things with Psychic defense ARE psykers, so much of our weaponry can damage you much more as well.

Though, our weaknesses are much akin to standard Spess Mahreens: Pop our transports, and we become much slower, AP1-3/Power weapons kill us really fast, and drowning us in wounds can kill us quickly.

Apply those to your all-comers lists, something which you probably already have, and you will be just fine.

This only applies to the GK aspects, however, and my area of expertise only applies to this section of the codex, not the Inquistion portion.

Footsloggin wrote:However, if psychic defense becomes a must, some armies become ABSOLUTELY screwed, while some will struggle a lot more. As stated in the "Proposed rules: Game-Wide Psychic defense", some armies, are nearly devoid of psychic defense, namely Tau, (not sure if CSM do), and Orks, (though the only real things orks have to worry about is purifying flame, and the heavy weapons to pop their vehicles). So Green Tide may become more difficult to play.

Also, remember, that many things with Psychic defense ARE psykers, so much of our weaponry can damage you much more as well.

Though, our weaknesses are much akin to standard Spess Mahreens: Pop our transports, and we become much slower, AP1-3/Power weapons kill us really fast, and drowning us in wounds can kill us quickly.

Apply those to your all-comers lists, something which you probably already have, and you will be just fine.

This only applies to the GK aspects, however, and my area of expertise only applies to this section of the codex, not the Inquistion portion.

And what IG have for defense?

Bah, I keep forgetting them. Even you PBS squads get mowed down pretty quickly... Hmm... Well, the fact that your battlecannons and Earthshakers would likely put a hurt on a lot of our units, so you're a little bit more well off as far as killing off the squads goes. (Do not mistake this for sarcasm, it is not).

IG, Orks, and Tau do not have psychic defense. IG only had the allies rule to take care of them, which is now gone. Really the only defense for armies that don't have psychic abilities is to shoot your way out. Well that's good for Tau and IG, but what about Orks?

I'm not trying to troll but I play Orks, and this codex shreds Orks to the extreme.

What do Chaos Space Mahreens have?