Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thing is, you're looking at basic Grey Knights. Start comparing HQs, Elites, all the other things you take in an army besides you basic troops choice and then come back to us.

Footsloggin wrote:What do Chaos Space Mahreens have?

Just seen this and don't think anyone answered.

They have Kharn. HQ immune to any psyker powers, but doesn't help the squad.

Other than that, they can petition Tzeentch to make the oposing player roll 12 every time. It's bound to work...sometime.

I think Tyranids can use CC Shrieks, wingd CC Tyrants and Trygon Prime against GK. Shadow of the Warp has a short pretty short range (and I'm just guessing that most GK powers will have more then 12''), and it will make the GK player think twice about useing those force weapons.

However, Shrieks only have a 5+ save, and no fleet, meaning that they will be subjected to a torrent of Storm bolter fire which willl damage them. Winged CC tyrants? Dreadknights could kill them, same with Trygons, as neither have Invulnerable saves, or the amount of statistical attacks needed, as well as the fact that a Deep Striking Trygon will be killed due to S7(?) Rending psycannons.

However, these are multiple units being used as specific counters for each unit in the Tyranids codex. Like saying that Banshees are a hard counter for Tactical Marines. Though much of this equipment WILL BE in a standard GK army.

Since when did any Tyranid have armour save? ;P

Limbo wrote:I think Tyranids can use CC Shrieks, wingd CC Tyrants and Trygon Prime against GK. Shadow of the Warp has a short pretty short range (and I'm just guessing that most GK powers will have more then 12''), and it will make the GK player think twice about useing those force weapons.






Thats why any good players would target the most threaten thing on the board. Anything that has anti-psy, would be shot at.

Wouldn't that mean that my other units are free to move about as they please?

Therion wrote:

What do they need psychic defense from?

Fortitude. Essentially it costs 5 points per Razorback. They can get 17 into 2000 points. Well, they can get a couple more but that would be at the expense of the 51 special weapons.

Henchmen take a force org slot as troops with Cortez. That's going well past 6 troops. 9 can be done by taking 6 troops and 3 elite slots, but after that GK have to buy real squads.

All fortitude does is allow the razorbacks to shoot after being glanced. They explode too easy to get that worried about a dirt cheap version of deamonic possession. AV11=too fragile to be a competitive list.

schadenfreude wrote:

Therion wrote:

What do they need psychic defense from?

Fortitude. Essentially it costs 5 points per Razorback. They can get 17 into 2000 points. Well, they can get a couple more but that would be at the expense of the 51 special weapons.

Henchmen take a force org slot as troops with Cortez. That's going well past 6 troops. 9 can be done by taking 6 troops and 3 elite slots, but after that GK have to buy real squads.

All fortitude does is allow the razorbacks to shoot after being glanced. They explode too easy to get that worried about a dirt cheap version of deamonic possession. AV11=too fragile to be a competitive list.

Now we know you're playing a different game than everyone else. A non-competitive non-tournament game with house rules like henchmen not being allowed to use their own specific rule which explicitly says they don't take up a force organisation slot. All Coteaz (yes, Coteaz, not Cortez) does regarding the categorisation is makes them troops (as opposed to elites).

how units are you going to have? what like 4 and maybe some are anti-pshy within a unit? There going to be to much dakka out there for tyrainds.

Footsloggin wrote:20 ork boys, 10 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 11.66 models before combat.

30 ork boys, 15 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 17.5 models before combat.

The emphasis here is BEFORE, meaning the orks recieve no extra attacks for those killed models. Take into account that many squads will not reach GK lines anywhere near to full strength, and that some will be cut down in CC regardless, and Purifiers become one deadly foe, nearly halving your numbers before you even strike.

A KFF would gut storm bolter shots down to being 2/9 lethal, so 18 shots=4 dead orks. 9 bare bone GK=18 shots=12hit=6 wound=4 dead orks. 26 Orks shoot back=17 hits=7.5 wounds=2.5 dead GK. That's just a KFF, it gets worse when dealing with orks in cover, then it takes 60 points worth of GK to drop 6 points of ork.

Sephyr wrote:
10x Tactical Marine w/Melta, Multi-Melta, Powerfist SGT w/combi-Melta, Rhino w/EA
270pts

I don't know about the new GK codex because I don't have my hands on it yet, but that load-out is 260 points. And who puts extra armor on Rhinos?

mrblacksunshine_1978 wrote:how units are you going to have? what like 4 and maybe some are anti-pshy within a unit? There going to be to much dakka out there for tyrainds.

I think someone made the point tha GK will suffer from a lack of models on the table, so perhaps that's a way? Tyranids can pump out alot of units if they want too. Sure, some will get slaughterd before they reach the GK, but getting if you're fielding 8 units in a 1000 points game, something is bound to get into CC to tie them up

schadenfreude wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:20 ork boys, 10 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 11.66 models before combat.

30 ork boys, 15 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 17.5 models before combat.

The emphasis here is BEFORE, meaning the orks recieve no extra attacks for those killed models. Take into account that many squads will not reach GK lines anywhere near to full strength, and that some will be cut down in CC regardless, and Purifiers become one deadly foe, nearly halving your numbers before you even strike.

A KFF would gut storm bolter shots down to being 2/9 lethal, so 18 shots=4 dead orks. 9 bare bone GK=18 shots=12hit=6 wound=4 dead orks. 26 Orks shoot back=17 hits=7.5 wounds=2.5 dead GK. That's just a KFF, it gets worse when dealing with orks in cover, then it takes 60 points worth of GK to drop 6 points of ork.

Ah, but now were getting into two units, and, so, Vindicare, KFF would go down.

Vindicare shield breaker rounds only work on invul saves. The KFF is a cover save.

I understand that, I'm saying that the vindicare could kill the KFF Mek Boy.

Therion wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Therion wrote:

What do they need psychic defense from?

Fortitude. Essentially it costs 5 points per Razorback. They can get 17 into 2000 points. Well, they can get a couple more but that would be at the expense of the 51 special weapons.

Henchmen take a force org slot as troops with Cortez. That's going well past 6 troops. 9 can be done by taking 6 troops and 3 elite slots, but after that GK have to buy real squads.

All fortitude does is allow the razorbacks to shoot after being glanced. They explode too easy to get that worried about a dirt cheap version of deamonic possession. AV11=too fragile to be a competitive list.

Now we know you're playing a different game than everyone else. A non-competitive non-tournament game with house rules like henchmen not being allowed to use their own specific rule which explicitly says they don't take up a force organisation slot. All Coteaz (yes, Coteaz, not Cortez) does regarding the categorisation is makes them troops (as opposed to elites).

Conflicting writing. As elites they don't use force org. HQ special ability says they may be a troops choice and doesn't say they are still force org free. Anything on the HQ would override what is written for the troops. I would check the exact wording before buying an army, and if it looks anywhere near close enough to be FAQ'd I wouldn't buy the army. If the all Henchmen army is a viable army I'll see your 17 razobacks and raise you 33 troops choices containing 99 multi melta servitors for 990 points followed by 100 more troop choices containing 150 warriors armed with boltguns for 450 more points. Half of the servitors will servolock every turn, but there will not be a single vehicle on the table by the end of turn 3, and 300 rapid fire bolt gun shots from the warriors should mop up any surviving infantry. Best of all I won't have a target on the table besides my HQ that's costs more than 30 points.

If it's at all open to debate it's open for a FAQ. Do you really think GW is going to FAQ on the side of an army that has 99 melta guns, 150 bolt guns, and 133 MSU troop choices for 1500+ the HQ?

Your maths are off, but you are in a sense accurate. The alternative to them not being limited is pure madness, so by default they must be limited.

Footsloggin wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:20 ork boys, 10 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 11.66 models before combat.

30 ork boys, 15 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 17.5 models before combat.

The emphasis here is BEFORE, meaning the orks recieve no extra attacks for those killed models. Take into account that many squads will not reach GK lines anywhere near to full strength, and that some will be cut down in CC regardless, and Purifiers become one deadly foe, nearly halving your numbers before you even strike.

A KFF would gut storm bolter shots down to being 2/9 lethal, so 18 shots=4 dead orks. 9 bare bone GK=18 shots=12hit=6 wound=4 dead orks. 26 Orks shoot back=17 hits=7.5 wounds=2.5 dead GK. That's just a KFF, it gets worse when dealing with orks in cover, then it takes 60 points worth of GK to drop 6 points of ork.

Ah, but now were getting into two units, and, so, Vindicare, KFF would go down.

Vindicare has nothing more than 2 wounds, a 4+ invo, a +1 to cover save, and 6+ FNP. Anybody can shoot directly at him now.

starsdawn wrote:

Sephyr wrote:
10x Tactical Marine w/Melta, Multi-Melta, Powerfist SGT w/combi-Melta, Rhino w/EA
270pts

I don't know about the new GK codex because I don't have my hands on it yet, but that load-out is 260 points. And who puts extra armor on Rhinos?

No one I know! I was just trying to keep it close to the GK rhino that has a similar power.

Magister187 wrote:Your maths are off, but you are in a sense accurate. The alternative to them not being limited is pure madness, so by default they must be limited.

3 Servitors costs 30 points
99 Servitors costs 990 points split into 33 groups of 3.

Warriors cost 5 points with a botgun.
150 of them costs 750 points ooops my math was off
99 of them costs 145 points in 33 groups of 3.

Cortez as I shall mockingly call him until the issue gets FAQ'd +99 servitors + 99 boltgun warriors<1750 points

That's not madness, it's pure uncut madness.

Anything on the HQ would override what is written for the troops.

Come on. You're making stuff up now What exactly is overriding what? Coteaz' special rules are very specific. Coteaz makes henchmen no longer limited to the amount of Inquisitors. Coteaz makes Henchmen troops. Nothing else changes. Henchmen not taking a force organisation slot is in their own rules and doesn't have anything to do with Inquisitors, being elites or troops, special characters or mine or your opinion.

Whether it's slowed in our opinion or not is also completely irrelevant. It isn't the first time and it certainly isn't the last.

You're correct in that C: GK need a FAQ though. As per 40K rules the Dreadknight DCCW's don't even work for the Dreadknight because it's not a walker.

schadenfreude wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:20 ork boys, 10 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 11.66 models before combat.

30 ork boys, 15 wounded, Ork boyz squad down to 17.5 models before combat.

The emphasis here is BEFORE, meaning the orks recieve no extra attacks for those killed models. Take into account that many squads will not reach GK lines anywhere near to full strength, and that some will be cut down in CC regardless, and Purifiers become one deadly foe, nearly halving your numbers before you even strike.

A KFF would gut storm bolter shots down to being 2/9 lethal, so 18 shots=4 dead orks. 9 bare bone GK=18 shots=12hit=6 wound=4 dead orks. 26 Orks shoot back=17 hits=7.5 wounds=2.5 dead GK. That's just a KFF, it gets worse when dealing with orks in cover, then it takes 60 points worth of GK to drop 6 points of ork.

Ah, but now were getting into two units, and, so, Vindicare, KFF would go down.

Vindicare has nothing more than 2 wounds, a 4+ invo, a +1 to cover save, and 6+ FNP. Anybody can shoot directly at him now.

What would the statistics for killing the KFF mek be?

Well, you would need to get him out of his battlewagon first. Assuming that was done.


35/36 chance of hitting, 1/2 chance of wounding, 1/3 chance of him saving.

About a 32% chance, assuming he only had KFF cover (more likely 25% chance from real cover).

Hmm, guess the Vindicare really is only great for popping armor...

Well, its because he is 2 wounds. If you are trying to snipe 1 wound models, you can use the Hellfire shot and its better odds. But yes, Armour popping is now what he does best.

Note, that reading a physical copy of the Grey Knights codex, the entry for Coteaz says that me makes Inquisitorial Henchmen Troops. Not count as Troops, they are Troops, and they are free from the usual limitations of 2 per Inqusitor.

ChrisWWII wrote:Note, that reading a physical copy of the Grey Knights codex, the entry for Coteaz says that me makes Inquisitorial Henchmen Troops. Not count as Troops, they are Troops, and they are free from the usual limitations of 2 per Inqusitor.

There's no difference that's why noone paid any attention to that. Just because something is troops doesn't mean that another entirely separate special rule all of a sudden disappears.

i collect DE, i would say, not to sound to cocky, they would pose more of a threat than any other army, if used correctly
E.G
1 squad in my army i would use would be a trueborn squad armed with just splinter weapons and haywire grenades mounted in a raider acompanied by duke sliscus, why, first off poisened weapons, no matter how tough something is a poisened weapon will always hit, duke sliscus would amp up the wounding from a 4+ to a 3+(anything with a high toughness,dreadknight, and charecters), second, trueborn can be upgraded with 2 splinter cannons which can be fired one of two ways assault 4 or heavy 6 (large squads) and the rest upgraded with shard carbines which are assault 3, so you looking at 27 shots just from the shard carbines (taking into account that there are only 9 trueborn in the squad and duke sliscus, the raider has a transport capacity of 10) so your looking at least 35 shots from 1 squad, third, mounted in a raider, dark lance, with the low orbit raid rule from sliscus deep strike, envenomed blades and torment grenades means anyone who rolls a 1 in cc will get a s4 hit and anyone within 6" will get -1ld and flicker field 5+invl save, thats one squad that could do a lot of dammage on its own,
another squad of mine is a strictly cc squad which again would cause a lot of dammage to a gk army, i consists of urien rakarth and, at the moment 5 grotesques, why, because grotesques are s5, with rakarth they are booted to s6 stronger than your average GK, one armed with a scissorhand, wounds on a 3+ and adds +1a, urien may not be the strongest, but he wounds on a 3+, a squad enough to take on any GK squad and dish out some pain

this is just a coupl of my own tactics, but i know that some of you may pick faults with it but thats fine, and ideas on how to make these squads better would be very helpful, but there is one DE rule that makes them more deadly than anyother army and the perfect choice for taking down GK, the power from pain rule, everyone in the army gets it, the feel no pain rule, furious charge and fearless, any army that can have that for everyone in there army is more than enough to take on the GK (again only my opinion)

schadenfreude wrote:

Magister187 wrote:Your maths are off, but you are in a sense accurate. The alternative to them not being limited is pure madness, so by default they must be limited.

3 Servitors costs 30 points
99 Servitors costs 990 points split into 33 groups of 3.

Warriors cost 5 points with a botgun.
150 of them costs 750 points ooops my math was off
99 of them costs 145 points in 33 groups of 3.

Cortez as I shall mockingly call him until the issue gets FAQ'd +99 servitors + 99 boltgun warriors<1750 points

That's not madness, it's pure uncut madness.

I got 99 servies but an =I= ain't one?