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Now, we all know that Tankbustas aren't the greatest unit the Orks have. While toting rokkits galore that Glory Hogs rule really does hamper their abilities... or does it?

I had an interesting thought today. What if, you used Tankbustas as herding units? Think of it this way. If you have a Tankbusta squad you want them around 24" away to be able to hit something. In Theory (and with a trukk or wagon) you could use this against fast armies like Dark Eldar Raider-based armies and Mechdar armies, fellow orks and perhaps Razorback lists (at a push). Forward the unit, use the range to really kill a unit. And in regards to fast armies, which normally have poor armour, this could make them reconsider where they deploy. Sure the skimmers can fly over you but then you can shoot them down since they're the closest unit and it's what Tankbustas must shoot at.

Use this possible tactic with a Trukker or Battlewagon list and you could be onto a winner. With so much mech you may be able to pull this off and forward your units with little chance of their's plowing straight into you.

What do we think?

Juvieus Kaine wrote:

Use this possible tactic with a Trukker or Battlewagon list and you could be onto a winner. With so much mech you may be able to pull this off and forward your units with little chance of their's plowing straight into you.

What do we think?

It sounds good on paper, do the explosive squigs auto hit? If so, I would suggest 2 minimum squads with maxed exploders(I think its only 15 points)

Juvieus Kaine wrote:Now, we all know that Tankbustas aren't the greatest unit the Orks have. While toting rokkits galore that Glory Hogs rule really does hamper their abilities... or does it?

I had an interesting thought today. What if, you used Tankbustas as herding units? Think of it this way. If you have a Tankbusta squad you want them around 24" away to be able to hit something. In Theory (and with a trukk or wagon) you could use this against fast armies like Dark Eldar Raider-based armies and Mechdar armies, fellow orks and perhaps Razorback lists (at a push). Forward the unit, use the range to really kill a unit. And in regards to fast armies, which normally have poor armour, this could make them reconsider where they deploy. Sure the skimmers can fly over you but then you can shoot them down since they're the closest unit and it's what Tankbustas must shoot at.

Use this possible tactic with a Trukker or Battlewagon list and you could be onto a winner. With so much mech you may be able to pull this off and forward your units with little chance of their's plowing straight into you.

What do we think?

Tank bustas can't buy trukks, so have to borrow one. Which means whatever squad they took it from is going to be walking and useless. BWs are expensive, and require a HS slot to get one for tankbustas. If you want to move your vehicles, you can't move more than 6 and have your guys fire out of them. If you get out, you are going to die. Tankbustas are BS 2, which means you must have a large number of them to have good results. At 15 pts per, this gets expensive. Bomb squids aren't that bad, but only have 18 inch range.

Tank bustas don't have a place in most ork armies, they take up 2 FOC slots to make them work, cost a bunch, don't hit often, and die just like any other ork. Oh, they have a rule that makes them even harder to use. The FOC slots they use up? The ones under the most pressure for other better choices...

Against the armies mentioned, with AV 10-12 (with Eldar field stuff), Lootas are in the same slot and better against those armor ranges. With double the range of Tankbustas, they offer virtually the same area coverage as a moving Tankbustas squad. The only use I really see for Tankbustas (and even then it's questionable) is with a Kan wall list to add mobile rokkits and, if on the edges, their tank hammers and tank busta bombs are a tank shock deterrent against opponents trying to cluster you up for templates.

Tankbustas Do not have to target the closest vehicle!

Merely a vehicle. This is an important distinction to make, because if the opponent shoves a land raider down your throat you can still target his rhinos.

Personally, they've been working well in a KFF wagon list. I run ten bustas with two tankhammers, two bomb squigs, and a nob with bosspole. I've never really run into many problems with glory hogs this way, because if I REALLY REALLY need to shoot some marines I can hop out of the wagon and block line of sight to the nearby vehicles. Usually though, there are more than enough enemy vehicles to occupy their fire. And if there IS something like a land raider, they at least have a fair chance of popping it in the assault.

It's also important to note that the new ruling clarification on vehicle explosions specifies there's a 4+ save crater left behind, which means the tankbustas can hole up in the crater like a pillbox if/when the battlewagon gets popped.

Let us do a side by side comparison of Lootas to tank Bustas.

--------------
Range:
So we can assume that with a transport, the Tank Bustas can move 12" get out an then shoot 24" Giving them an effective Range of 36"
Lootas have about a 48" range, but are heavy meaning the enemy can avoid you, but it is difficult. Lootas have limited relocation abilities.

Advantage: Lootas, simple because they do not need a transport to be effective. They can stay in cover and stay safe, rather than having to advance on the enemy.

---------------
Damage
5 lootas or 5 Tank Bustas against some different AV


AV10
Tank Bustas G: .28 P: 1.11
Lootas G: .56 P:1.67

AV11
Tank Bustas G: .28 P: .83
Lootas G: .56 P:1.11

AV12
Tank Bustas G: .28 P: .55
Lootas G: .56 P: .56

AV13
Tank Bustas G: .28 P: .28
Lootas G: .56 P: .00

AV14
Tank Bustas G: .28 P: .00
Lootas G: .00 P: .00


Advantage: Lootas. AV 10, 11, 12 are the most common these days, and lootas deal the most damage here. The rokkit only wins against AV13 and 14, but it is very inneffective against these AV values. PK, DCCW or Rollas should be used against these High AV targets.

------------------------

There is only 1 army where having Tank Bustas is a good idea, and that is Against the Tyranids
1) There are no tanks, so glory hogs is never an issue.
2) S8 is useful for ID against any of the T4 multi wound things in the tyranid book.
3) AP 3 is nice as well so you can AP those MC's and they do not get a cover save.

If you want to tailor a list for Tyranids then take Tank Bustas.


Otherwise they have less range and deal less damage than Lootas, and they require a transport or other upgrades making them cost more both in points and on the FOC.

While you are correct, you should also take into account the ability of tankbustas to relocate and approach different armor values. Say you've got a unit of tankbustas and a unit of lootas (which I do use, incidentally). There's a chimera rolling up on me and I'd like to take it out. Lootas are almost assuredly going to be firing at front armor, whereas tankbustas in a transport have a good chance of finding side armor. In a situation like that the tankbustas award you twice as many pens.

You're also neglecting to take into account the ability of tankbustas to deal with heavy armor via melee. 2 tankhammers and a handful of tankbusta bombs are about as effective as a deff rolla when dealing with AV14, and the odds go way up vs. walkers.

Bomb squigs are nice, too. I wouldn't rely on tankbustas for my only AT, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a mix of lootas/bustas

The internetz say Tankbusta's are bad! Nuff Said!

I haven't played around with Tankbustas but they are on my list. How can 15 Rokkit Launcha be bad? I say put them into a Battlewagon. I do it with my burnas all the time and the internet says that kool what's the differences?

Tankbustas aren't as bad as some people put it, but yes Lootas are way better.

General_Chaos wrote:The internetz say Tankbusta's are bad! Nuff Said!

I haven't played around with Tankbustas but they are on my list. How can 15 Rokkit Launcha be bad? I say put them into a Battlewagon. I do it with my burnas all the time and the internet says that kool what's the differences?

Burnas don't rely on BS 2 to hit and cause an overwhelming number of hits, where as about 2/3 of your tankbustas shots are misses. Tankbustas aren't necessarily *bad*, but as with many things in 40k when discussed on forums, a unit doesn't have to be terrible to be discounted, merely not the best choice in it's slot.

General_Chaos wrote:The internetz say Tankbusta's are bad! Nuff Said!

I haven't played around with Tankbustas but they are on my list. How can 15 Rokkit Launcha be bad? I say put them into a Battlewagon. I do it with my burnas all the time and the internet says that kool what's the differences?

When they cost minimum 225 pts and only hit 1/3 times on average... Sure they are assault weapons, but bleh, 24 inch range, glory hogs, and no dedicated transport. Burna boyz are great for drive by burning, and assaults. Can you say the same for tank bustas?

Tankbustas are one of those units that are cool to read about and so you want to use them, same goes for FlashGits. They just arnt that fantastic in game though. And did you just compare them to BurnaBoys? Really!?!? Tankbustas are very situational and can be used to screw your plans up good by a decent player. burnaboyz OTOH can take on hordes with ease, drive by burnas, while murdering hard to kill units, AND they can all have power weapons instead of flame templates? Yea they are superior to tankbustas.

Again, they are a cool unit to play around with from time to time, but Kelly really hoed them with that glory hogs rule. Another reason why fluff doesnt always fit in game terms

Ah well, it was just a thought.

notabot187 wrote:

General_Chaos wrote:The internetz say Tankbusta's are bad! Nuff Said!

I haven't played around with Tankbustas but they are on my list. How can 15 Rokkit Launcha be bad? I say put them into a Battlewagon. I do it with my burnas all the time and the internet says that kool what's the differences?

When they cost minimum 225 pts and only hit 1/3 times on average... Sure they are assault weapons, but bleh, 24 inch range, glory hogs, and no dedicated transport. Burna boyz are great for drive by burning, and assaults. Can you say the same for tank bustas?

Proportional to the number of rokkits they field coupled with Tankhammers, Tankabustas could of been a good ork situational unit. Definately worth taking for cheap Str 10 hits in CC, they would have found a niche somewhere.

Unfortunately, as pointed out, Glory Hogs trumps all viability they have other than in casual games and against nonmechanized armies.

What exactly is so bad about glory hogs? You're not allowed to use them as MEQ killers. So what? Orks have no problem killing marines. Everyone's meched up, so there's plenty of transports for the tankbustas to kill, and I'm almost never in a situation where it inconveniences me in the slightest.

Are you guys actually having issues with glory hogs losing you games, or what?

I'm probably going to use a unit of tankbustas in a game on saturday, coupled with a PK+KFF big mek, I will report how they fare then.

The way I see it, they can be viable but you must remember they are orks, and orks need to get into assault, Tankhammas - Yes please! Tankbusta Bombs - Yes please! (krak grenades with 2d6+6 armour pen).

As for glory hogs, it doesn't really affect you, as you WANT to be popping as many tanks as possible as quickly as possible, and if you can fire off rokkits on your way, they may be unreliable in shooting, but what they hey! you may get lucky, you may have to do what orks do best and punch the tank!

Stick a KFF Big mek in the unit instead of a nob and you have a nice cover save even in open terrain!

Orks are BS 2? OMG!...

Seriously, we all know this which is why there are 15 of them! Odd are in favor of 5 strength 8 shots hitting that's where the OMG should be. Personally, why I have been considering using them is because I have a large bug problem up here in my neck of the woods and they would just dominate.

Tankbustas are a decent option against vehicles in general-keep in mind when comparing them to Lootas that the more mobile Tankbustas can work around terrain much easier than Lootas.

They don't really earn their points until you're facing AV 13 or 14 vehicles though. Against AV 13 they're capable of shooting to stun or immobilise and finishing in HTH. Against AV 14 the rokkits are a nuisance, but Leigen_Zero is right-the HTH is absolutely brutal. 10 Tankbustas will get you 6 ST 10 Tankhamma attacks, 4 ST 9 PK attacks from the Nob, and 7 ST 6 (plus 2d6) Tankbusta bomb attacks.

Landraider? What Landraider?

Limited use, yes. But far from useless

Ordznik wrote:but Leigen_Zero is right-the HTH is absolutely brutal

Of course I'm right The fundamental principle of orks is you have to be in HTH! If you can convince yourself that your unit should not try and get into assault then you are not acting in the right green and belligerent frame of mind! (well, that was at least true until GK got the Matt Ward treatment!)

As for earning their points, my most regular opponent likes tanks, lots of tanks (looking at ~4 in a 1000pt list), so I've got a feeling they will earn their points quite quickly!

I've always preferred shooting with orks. There is only so many times you can send in a mob of boyz, have half of them killed before they get to combat, half of the remaining killed before they swing, and the remaining guys kill less than what the nob in the squad killed before you realize that orky CC is a bit overrated. CC vehicles is cute, except that most cost far less than the unit your are using, if it moved isn't guaranteed, and the resulting explosion wipes away a good portion of the squad.

I'll be using my "safer" but still orky lootas, kans and kannons rokkits, and deffrollas. You guys can have fun with tankbustas, been there, done that.

Wazdakka Gutsmek 180
Big Mek, KFF, BP, 90
15 Tank Bustas, 3 Bomb Squigs, 180
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 3 Rokkits, 250
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 3 Rokkits, 250
30 Slugga Boyz, Nob, PK, BP, 3 Rokkits, 250
5 Deffkoptas, TL-Rokkits, 225
1500

I don't know about you guys, but I think Tank Bustas are pretty neat. In fact, I kind of like S8 shooting in general. Makes me feel like a Space Wolf without all that implied bestiality.

The big thing Tank Bustas have over Lootas is mobility, whether you're using a transport or not. I like heavy weapons I can pick up and take with me. Lootas are vulnerable to all sorts of backfield clearers, while these Tank Bustas are behind a wall of 90 boyz. On the table, Tank Bustas and Lootas are damn-near even offensively, where the latter tends to over-kill and the former consistently barely works.. The big difference there are Bomb Squigs: I've scored many a double-kill with these things, and that's something Lootas can't do the turn I WAAAGH!.

Luke_Prowler wrote:Tankbustas aren't as bad as some people put it, but yes Lootas are way better.

That's pretty much the entire point.

Lootas are the better solution in the current codex. Play with tankbustas if you have a bunch of rokkit boys leftover from the last codex.

So I played that game, 1000pts, mob of 10 tankbustas 2 tankhammers, unfortunately we rolled dawn of war so my main hypothesis of tankbustas with a KFF mek for cover saves as glory hogs will inevitably leave them in the open went down the tube.

They scored one or two kills, but got shot at by 2 basilisks and a demolisher every turn until they went bye-bye, had the KFF plan worked they may have survived a bit longer.

However, for ork shooting, they were quite successful! and in addition created a nice sized area denial zone, as my opponent didn't want to get within assualt range of an assault anti-tank monster!