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SabrX wrote:

Celtic Strike wrote:

And you're only going to give it one shot with the new codex without any practice? Did you win an Ard boyz tourny on your first game? That's amazing.

WTF? You aren't making any sense whatsoever. I'm speculating based on the tidbits of info from B & C, hence the word "will most likely focus". FYI, Ard Boyz 2011 tournament started before WD SoB was fully released. Anyone winning Ard Boyz tournament are essentially using c:WH, which IMO is vastly superior compared to the new WD SoB codex. I'm not competing in Ard Boyz, but I know there are c:WH players who are competing in the upcoming semi-finals. Though I doubt they will get any further than that considering c:WH glaring weakness in kill points.

I'm pretty sure there's a month lapse before a new codex is tourny legal, when is semis?

SabrX wrote:

Celtic Strike wrote:

And you're only going to give it one shot with the new codex without any practice? Did you win an Ard boyz tourny on your first game? That's amazing.

WTF? You aren't making any sense whatsoever. I'm speculating based on the tidbits of info from B & C, hence the word "will most likely focus". FYI, Ard Boyz 2011 tournament started before WD SoB was fully released. Anyone winning Ard Boyz tournament are essentially using c:WH, which IMO is vastly superior compared to the new WD SoB codex. I'm not competing in Ard Boyz, but I know there are c:WH players who are competing in the upcoming semi-finals. Though I doubt they will get any further than that considering c:WH glaring weakness in kill points.

Maybe I can explain.

Celtic's basically saying that it'd be a bit silly if you were to dismiss a Codex based on the results of one match, because it doesn't accurately reflect how well the army might perform. You'd still be learning to use it, your opponent will still be learning to deal with it, dice can go badly or extremely well, your particular list against your opponent's particular list might be a good or bad matchup, and on and on and on. It's hard to judge an army based on the results of one good game or two bad ones.

His or her 'Ard Boyz tourney comment was meant to remind that a single game doesn't make you win or lose a tournament in and of itself.

Shooting potential output for the sisters is slightly higher, I did the math cos I'm lonely.

Thanks pouncy

Celtic Strike wrote:Shooting potential output for the sisters is slightly higher, I did the math cos I'm lonely

That's great news! Cause I play my Sisters as shooty - though I might add in a unit of Repentia somewhere just cause I have like 20 of the damned things and I'd like to see how they fare. ^_^

I didn't compare the old to new codex but I will. I'm lazy right now and will do it later but this is the quick comparison I came up with.

11 Firewarriors, 1 Shas'el (Rapid fire range)
Kills per point spent: 0.0201

10 gray hunters, 2 flamers (Subjective, averaging 4 hits per)
Kills per points spent: 0.0204

9 Sisters, Vet Sister, Flamer, H. Flamer (Subjective again I know)
Kills per point spent: 0.0218

9 Sisters, 1 vet, 4 Heavy flamers.
Kills per point spent: 0.0233

9 Space marines, 1 Sgt W/Pistol, 1 Flamer
Kills per points spent: 0.0147

Celtic Strike wrote:I didn't compare the old to new codex but I will. I'm lazy right now and will do it later but this is the quick comparison I came up with.

11 Firewarriors, 1 Shas'el (Rapid fire range)
Kills per point spent: 0.0201

10 gray hunters, 2 flamers (Subjective, averaging 4 hits per)
Kills per points spent: 0.0204

9 Sisters, Vet Sister, Flamer, H. Flamer (Subjective again I know)
Kills per point spent: 0.0218

9 Sisters, 1 vet, 4 Heavy flamers.
Kills per point spent: 0.0233

9 Space marines, 1 Sgt W/Pistol, 1 Flamer
Kills per points spent: 0.0147

4 Heavy Flamers? Mmmm, templates and lack of needing to roll to hit... :: drools ::

Pouncey wrote: That's great news! Cause I play my Sisters as shooty - though I might add in a unit of Repentia somewhere just cause I have like 20 of the damned things and I'd like to see how they fare. ^_^

I'll trade you some Sisters for Repentia I need some of them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pouncey wrote: 4 Heavy Flamers? Mmmm, templates and lack of needing to roll to hit... :: drools ::

That assumes the heavy squad can take four of them.
The numbers are different for a 4Xflamer squad but not much.

Celtic Strike wrote:
That assumes the heavy squad can take four of them.
The numbers are different for a 4Xflamer squad but not much.

They can, it specifically says they can in the first dex in their entry.

Kreedos wrote: They can, it specifically says they can in the first dex in their entry.

Awesome, where is everyone getting the new dex from already?

Also, prepare for 0.0233 dead marines per point spent of cold hard death.

Celtic Strike wrote:

Kreedos wrote: They can, it specifically says they can in the first dex in their entry.

Awesome, where is everyone getting the new dex from already?

Also, prepare for 0.0233 dead marines per point spent of cold hard death.

The first SoB WD says they can take heavy flamers and they're HS so they're no way they're not going to be able take 4, I dont have the new dex yet sadly.

Hey, I'm happy with that alone. Put 3 multi meltas in my command squad and hope them out of immolators. Happiness is me.

I'm hoping the rumor about Immolators staying 65 points is untrue. =(

It might be but if multimeltas are base then maybe the cost is justified.

Heavy bolters are base, MM is 10 HF is 20

Saying that to myself makes me think they have to be 45, I dont see 65 justified, maybe the person meant with a heavy flamer, which would make sense, (razorback price + 20) Same thing.

Well a razor back is an immolator. Now anyway.

Razorback 55pts for Heavy bolters
65pts for an Immolator

90pts for twin-linked heavy flamers (Except for BA's, those smug, hansom gits)

I think it's 45 for heavy bolters (same as razorback price)
55 for MM
65 for HF

Right, I got used to BA's Razorbacks.

It doesn't make sense if sisters Immolators are more expensive than stock Razorbacks

Celtic Strike wrote:

Pouncey wrote: That's great news! Cause I play my Sisters as shooty - though I might add in a unit of Repentia somewhere just cause I have like 20 of the damned things and I'd like to see how they fare. ^_^

I'll trade you some Sisters for Repentia I need some of them


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pouncey wrote: 4 Heavy Flamers? Mmmm, templates and lack of needing to roll to hit... :: drools ::

That assumes the heavy squad can take four of them.
The numbers are different for a 4Xflamer squad but not much.

Nah, I like my Repentia too much.

Plus, I'm a bit of a hoarder IRL. Not too much, just a bit. I still had the box from the first Rhino tank kit I ever got. I was using it as my bitz box, at least up until it got too damaged to feel safe to keep hundreds of bitz in. I used to save all my boxes. The infantry sets I would flatten and stack. The blister packs I would remove the card backing and stick the plastic stuff together. After a few years, I had a flattened out stack of boxes about 7-8" thick, and my blister packs were about 5-6" thick all together. Then I ended up throwing them all out on a whim, or maybe I needed the hanging shelf space in my cupboard for something. I wish I'd kept them, just for nostalgia's sake.

I never get rid of stuff that could be useful, until it's useless. And my miniatures, I just don't tend to get rid of anymore. Now I keep em all, cause I never know when I'll want to play em again.

And I'll be damned if posting in this thread tonight hasn't rekindled my love affair with my Battle Sisters... Juuuuuust as I was really getting into my upcoming Chaos Daemons army, too! DAMN YOU!!!!

Work for both sides of chaos

Pouncey wrote:

Nah, I like my Repentia too much.

I agree, they're pretty cool models, I have 20 of them myself that I'm planning on using with footslogging variants of the new sisters codex, which they're going to be able to do very efficiently. I did the math, and it looks like I can fit 111 Sisters on the board, with good upgrades and options with 6x sister squads 3x dominion 1x HQ /w command squad and 3x Retribitor Squads with Heavy Bolters

I was gonna wait and comment when I actually got the magazine, but there is something I gotta say.

A minor increase to the prices of basic sisters is not a big deal. As others have pointed out, power armor, a bolter and good ld is easily worth 12 points per. I wouldn't even think about complaining if basic Sisters were 12 points... if they were in an imperial guard army.

As it stands, they are in a sisters of battle army. Those extra flamer templates are nice and all, but that is all they got, a narrow window of effectiveness before they are assaulted or shot to pieces. See, those Dire Avengers, they have a pile of heavy AP3 busting guns, specialist assault units and psychic powers backing them. Those tau, battle suits and rail guns. And those are the "weaker" armies of the comparisons. Vet IGs are backed by numbers and firepowers and marines, well they are backed by marines. All of these armies can count on the sisters coming through a lot of fire to get into rapid fire range, the sisters meanwhile have 3 exorcists and some heavy bolters.

If it wern't for all the other nerfs, 12 points would be nothing. I would stand up and salute 12 point sisters if say, acts of faith were any good. Whatever, we got grenades right? But we had lost so much before we even suspected the new point costs that it is just one more kick in the pants, especially after listening to all the people saying "wait for the point cost, sisters will be cheaper and that will fix everything!"

Yeah, I'm gonna get the second half of the list, play some games, and see what I can make out of this. I will probably even win a few games. But that does not make it a good list or 12 points a good price for Battle Sisters.

On the plus side, it looks like my remaining sisters will be enough for an army after all. Yay?

DarknessEternal wrote:There are 4 SoBs for every Marine.

Can you confirm a source on this rumour? I mean, 12 points was disappointing, but 4 points sounds very much like wishlisting.

Edit:

Celtic Strike wrote:It doesn't make sense if sisters Immolators are more expensive than stock Razorbacks

Current rumours are that the price of the Immolator is unchanged from C:WH, the HB option is a free swap-out, and the MM option costs 15pts.

So going off C:SM, HB Immolators are 25pts more expensive than HB Razorbacks, HF Immolators are the same price as HF Razorbacks, and MM Immolators cost 5pts more than Lazorbacks/Plazorbacks

So going off C:SM, HB Immolators are 25pts more expensive than HB Razorbacks, HF Immolators are the same price as HF Razorbacks, and MM Immolators cost 5pts more than Lazorbacks/Plazorbacks

I suppose that's why there is this special reroll to wound ammunition on sisters HB ? Or did I misread ?

Grenat wrote:I suppose that's why there is this special reroll to wound ammunition on sisters HB ? Or did I misread ?

I suspect so - although I'm not sure who in their right mind would think that rerolling up to three AP4 wounds was worth 25 points

Maybe if they had ignored Cover Saves, instead, it would be worth that.

Mythal wrote:

Grenat wrote:I suppose that's why there is this special reroll to wound ammunition on sisters HB ? Or did I misread ?

I suspect so - although I'm not sure who in their right mind would think that rerolling up to three AP4 wounds was worth 25 points

Maybe if they had ignored Cover Saves, instead, it would be worth that.

I agree. I would love to have some kind of "Very Special" Heavy Bolter for Sisters to strengthen it, in comparison with MM and (well a little more bitter now) HF.

Grenat wrote:I agree. I would love to have some kind of "Very Special" Heavy Bolter for Sisters to strengthen it, in comparison with MM and (well a little more bitter now) HF.

Agreed - I'm surprised they didn't just give Immolator heavy bolters Rending, a la Retributors. Regarding the Heavy Flamer, it's sad that we've lost the special rule that allowed it to move 12" and still fire - I would have thought that, at least, combined with the loss of the fire point would have warranted a points drop of some description.

Seraphim and Exorcists seem the way to go. Lucky for me.. I was taking seraphim whatever hapened to them.

When people say that you have to pay through the nose for pistols on Seraphim, do they mean melta and flamer specifically? In context of the rest of this list I wouldn't be shocked if they were at their cheap cost but you had to buy bolt pistols.

Also does Celestine let you buy a command squad? I think every list is going to use her and the guy that lets you reroll faith.

Well indeed, the only way Celestine and Uriah are not going to be the 2 mandatory HQ choice is if you can't select a command squad (Uriah permit a conclave, I suppose) for people who want to field it.

How sad when all your armies are lead by the same characters...

It is useless to examine just the point cost changes in SoB units without considering the changes to their abilities. These are (standard SoB Squad):

Gain:
6++
Frags/Kraks
Bolt Pistol
Faith Reroll 1's to hit in shooting
Reduced ~10-15 points with transport (standard HF/Melta Loadout)

Lose:
5+ Targeted Psychic Defense
Immunity to Force Weapons (not a big deal for non IC)
All previous Faith powers - namely Divine Guidance
Book of St. Lucius (remember too this let you be ld 10 near a Cannoness)

I know people are trying to see the bright side, but it is tough to see how this army is going to work at all. Especially with hugely overloaded Heavy slots (1 troop choice but 3 Heavy and 3 Elite options?) It sadly does not make sense. Also, the Immolator nerf is huge.

For the record Heavy Bolters suck - there is a reason noone takes them, even guard take Hull Heavy Flamers and not Heavy Bolters...