Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
a. They weren't murder people in the old fluff, especially not Space Marines. I first heard about that in the new fluff.
b. That Purifier didn't have Terminator armor but ordinary power armor. And it doesn't matter if GK are incorruptible, he swallowed him and then GUO exploded for no reason. That was just show off.
c. That did happened, and the point is that they were directly hit by orbital bombardment. And while all around them die they survived, and they were not under the rubble at all. I read it again, they actually call bombardment on themselves and then left like nothing happened while everything around them in like 100 miles radios die..
As for plasma issue, they have plasma-resistant armors now witch means that Tau can't do squat to them since 90% of their weapons are plasma types. That also apply to Imperial Guard who have plasma infantry and tanks who are useless now against them.
That is what I don't liek in GK codex and why are they overpowered.
Now please don't get off topic.
It most certainly was in the old fluff, going all the way back to their first appearances in the RoC era books.
The 2nd point is no more implausible than any of the other myriad of times heroes are swallowed and kill their foe from the inside out, it's a staple of the heroic genre. And, of course, this act is carried out by a "named" special character.
I think you're totally misrepresenting the orbital bombardment as well, which is no real surprise. For starters they're in the lower areas of the Temple when they bombardment starts, which is of course covered in spore chimneys. Furthermore it states that the Gk "weather the storm of barrage bombs" and then the survivors leave before they are overwhelmed.
Which is a far cry from the way you've just described the situation.
I've no idea really where you're getting or going with the plasma resistant armour thing, we'll put that down to linguistic misunderstandings methinks.
Indeed. Kids these days. Codex GK is the Inquisition going back to its hardcore roots. If anything the most uncharacteristic thing they did was help the Eldar retrieve those Malantai soul stones.
daveNYC wrote: [Draigo's] kills don't count as kill points or something, then the Sisyphean element would be stronger.
That would be awesome.
So, more on the "he's tragic, oh, wait no he's not" line of thought: Is that where we are going with this thread?
(The No KP mechanic is a neat thought, though)
Sorry Coa but they killed guardsmen, put the entire population into work camps, repopulated the planet, and then replaced the pollution with imported smog from Vostroya; when they visited Armageddon during the first war. Old fluff but still burns me up.
Just a thought; does anyone know the first war happens the way it did, and if they don't know a war ever happened how do they know to call the orkish Wars the second and third wars for Armageddon?
ANOTHER THING: Correction; i think they executed them for knowledge on chaos rather than seeing some grey armored marines.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/29 16:16:16
$pider wrote:Wait a sec. Isn't just about every SM book have fluff about how awesome they are? GK specialize in killing all things daemon. So perhaps their most accomplished GM would be kicking butt and taking names in the warp. Then made to represent that on the table top.
It's not like he choked out an Avatar right? Oh wait.....wrong book.
It this serious? I'm having a hard time working it out.
I am serious. Codex Space Marines, current edition. Calgar basically strangles an Eldar Avatar.
Varrick wrote: Sorry Coa but they killed guardsmen, put the entire population into work camps, repopulated the planet, and then replaced the pollution with imported smog from Vostroya; when they visited Armageddon during the first war. Old fluff but still burns me up.
Just a thought; does anyone know the first war happens the way it did, and if they don't know a war ever happened how do they know to call the orkish Wars the second and third wars for Armageddon?
They know but I guess they don't know anything about it. They call the 3rd war the 3rd war.
Well, they both fall under the Worf umbrella, but the avatar has suffered more degradation to the point that its toughness is merely an informed ability. I mean, it even appears on the cover of the recent Aurelian, all bent over like it's about to get fisted by Lorgar. Sad, very sad.
Omegus wrote:Well, they both fall under the Worf umbrella, but the avatar has suffered more degradation to the point that its toughness is merely an informed ability. I mean, it even appears on the cover of the recent Aurelian, all bent over like it's about to get fisted by Lorgar. Sad, very sad.
Wow, it does? That is sad.
And you are probably right, actually, from what I hear, in one of the Ultramarine novels M'kar was handing Papa Smurf his ass.
The Avatar is one of the unfortunate creatures in 40k to have its badassery retconned (Getting ripped to pieces by a Hive Tyrants Carnifex's rather than kicking Hive Tyrant ass like before) to make other people (Yriel) look good.
Yeah, I hate that Eldar fluff part. Now that I think about it Avatar is anti-Draigo. I think Draigo should not be able to do so many miraculous things but he does them anyway. Effortlessly. Avatar should be near invincible or at least be a very tough opponent, but the way he's being handled by everybody - he's pathetic. Maybe Khane was god of cooking or trees or clumsiness? It's just Eldar propaganda he is a god of war.
In new Tau codex somebody will just shoot him in the face with a pulse rifle and he will fall down and die. Then at least one craftworld (probably two) will explode because of that. If that happens somebody owes me DMC.
Good things are good,.. so it's good
Keep our city clean.
Report your death to the Department of Expiration
Omegus wrote:That's a special attack permitted by the legendary agility of the Swooping Hawks.
You got this all wrong. This is finally a video accurately portraying the infamous 'Dance of Death' harlequins perform on the battlefield.
The one doing the whirlwind of death must be a Solitaire. No other living creature is even close to attain such beautiful and mesmerising combat movements.
Good things are good,.. so it's good
Keep our city clean.
Report your death to the Department of Expiration
Omegus wrote:Well, they both fall under the Worf umbrella, but the avatar has suffered more degradation to the point that its toughness is merely an informed ability. I mean, it even appears on the cover of the recent Aurelian, all bent over like it's about to get fisted by Lorgar. Sad, very sad.
Wow, it does? That is sad.
And you are probably right, actually, from what I hear, in one of the Ultramarine novels M'kar was handing Papa Smurf his ass.
The Avatar is one of the unfortunate creatures in 40k to have its badassery retconned (Getting ripped to pieces by a Hive Tyrants Carnifex's rather than kicking Hive Tyrant ass like before) to make other people (Yriel) look good.
Spoiler:
Lorgar doesn't fight the Avatar. He walks the surface of one of the Craftworlds that didn't escape the Fall, and finds it near death, so ends its suffering. The thing is literally like it is on the cover, the only survivor, its fire gone repeating the same line over and over. Not great, but it's at least more dignified than being used as 40k's premier whipping post for Special Characters.
Omegus wrote:No, you're wrong because your opinion is not based on facts and your argument rests entirely on insulting your opposition.
My opinion is that Draigo is a Sisyphean character that exemplifies the fact that the Grey Knights never truly win. You believe that he's an OTT Mary Sue that just rampages through the Warp. Your opinion is valid because you use examples from the fluff. My opinion is valid because I use examples from the fluff. Insulting other posters because you perceive them to insult you isn't very constructive. You believing that something isn't the case doesn't mean it can't be so.
Read his fluff again. It's two pages of talking about how awesome he is, and examples of him accomplishing things no one else in the setting has ever accomplished, including the Emperor. Then there's a brief sentence about how the damage he does is inevitably repaired. Then it launches back into how awesome he is. The two viewpoints are not mutually exclusive. Sure, he's a Sisyphean character (1%), but he is also very much an OTT Mary Sue that just rampages through the Warp (99%). As per usual for Ward, he has an interesting idea that is horrendously executed because he is a very poor writer. That is what I've been arguing.
I have yet to insult anyone in this thread, I responded to an accusation that people who think Draigo is a Mary Sue are just uninformed bandwagon jumpers who are parroting what they read on the internet.
You seem to have only read half of my post about band wagon jumpers...
As for Draigo, you say it's "Facts" that it was just written to make him "Syuper kyool" to a bunch of 9 year olds. I say it's "facts" that it was written to show him as being a tragic character, that represents what the entirety of the Grey Knights are doing, killing daemons, but regardless of how well and how many they kill, they just come back.
But, those aren't "facts" their opinions, and no I'm not just saying that so I can avoid "being called out on being wrong" or whatever...I'm saying that because it's a FACT that these are just OPINIONS.
bombboy1252 wrote:As for Draigo, you say it's "Facts" that it was just written to make him "Syuper kyool" to a bunch of 9 year olds. I say it's "facts" that it was written to show him as being a tragic character, that represents what the entirety of the Grey Knights are doing, killing daemons, but regardless of how well and how many they kill, they just come back.
If you look at Ward's writing history, he writes precisely things that are "syuper kyoll to a bunch of 9-year olds". The tragic character bit, while a far more interesting take than some uber unstoppable badass, simply doesn't pan out in the writing, and frankly, is far too "deep" of a concept for Ward. Just read his interviews.
It is a fact that he writes fanspank, saying that this is a sisyphean tragedy is simply trying to justify the otherwise ludicrous text. Much like how I try to justify the Purifiers not as "50% more incorruptible", but rather guys that are so fanatical that their zeal not only protects them from corruption, but erupts from them in the form of daemon-cleansing flames. It helps me sleep at night, but I know that that's not what is actually written down.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/10/28 22:12:52
BLU
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
750 points
1000 Points
HERESEY!