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Arya kills the mountain, steals his face and magically gains 400 pounds, then kills Cersi when she least expects it.

Given what Cersei did with Dragonfire before? I’m wondering if history is going to repeat itself for Jaime.

Or, given Euron is the younger brother....

 Gael Knight wrote:
I think the most frustrating thing is that we probably won't get answers for the symbols that the White Walkers/First Men created or to visit their home where they took that child.

Like nailing the Umber boy to the wall was just an edgy spooky moment. Nothing personnel kid.

The symbol is the same as the one the Children of the forest have drawn all about Westeros. The Night King keeps recreating it to mock them as he has a special hatred against the children for having created him. Honestly, I don't know what else people were expecting from it. Given they keep making the symbols out of bodies I assume they just do it to intimidate people. I doubt it's any more complicated then that.

So you just made that up? Great. Sounds awful. Hope they don't revisit it if that's the true explanation.

In hindsight I thought it was a bit much when Melisandre turned and winked at the camera when she said the line about "blue eyes" tbh.

who puts all the artillery in front of the castle walls and then has the cavalry ride out unsupported? Then puts the flaming stockade BEHIND their lines? its like they built the battle lines backwards.

Should have just hired a faceless man and given him a dragon glass arrow....done and done.

Must have been the same guy that forgot about flying eagles just whisking the ring to the volcano.

 Gael Knight wrote:
So you just made that up? Great. Sounds awful. Hope they don't revisit it if that's the true explanation.

In hindsight I thought it was a bit much when Melisandre turned and winked at the camera when she said the line about "blue eyes" tbh.

Not made up at all. The pictures and symbols are all around the show. Jon even pointed them out in the Dragonglass cave last season.

I wish shanking the King didn’t make the other Walkers explode. Like have him die and most/all the undead die, but then leave some more fight left with the other Walkers. Maybe have one escape back to the north so it’s not like the threat is done and gone forever.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

 Gael Knight wrote:
So you just made that up? Great. Sounds awful. Hope they don't revisit it if that's the true explanation.

In hindsight I thought it was a bit much when Melisandre turned and winked at the camera when she said the line about "blue eyes" tbh.

Not made up at all. The pictures and symbols are all around the show. Jon even pointed them out in the Dragonglass cave last season.

Spoiler:

You said it was the Night King mocking the symbols. I want to know what the significance of the symbols are in the first place.

This episode was an improvement on the previous two but I'm bloody disappointed Rohan didn't appear on the ridge and save the day.

Episode was disappointing purely because of their choice to overlay a damn snow storm on the whole thing, night scenes are difficult enough to watch without having to squint.

If you are going to spend that much money on a "biggest fight ever" - it would be nice to be able to see what the feth was happening,

Shockingly awful battle plans throughout but then thats Jon Snow (who has never wn a battle) and Dany (who is not really a general)

Oh look I have cavalry with flaming swords - ok then just charge off on your own then and give the dead more troops
Lets put the artilley outside the walls

rubbish episode.

So did Ghost die? At least

It is truly sad they could not have gotten a bunch of warhammer player to fix their deployment

Or more likely the the Winterfell set could not fit the Trebuchets in the court yard as it's a small set and...well, they had all these trebuchets lying around and want to use them.

I enjoyed the episode.

Some bits were strange, but were far outweighed by really enjoying it.

If you can't tell, I'm trying to pad out my post so people don't get spoiled if they hover over this thread.

Aaaaand that should do it.

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:They Snoked the Nights KIng and Luked Melissandra.

Not unless you're looking at it superficially.

Snoke is a villain in a world which has been fleshed out in terms of it's villains. For a person to come in and suddenly have lots of power and seeming importance (ie, Snoke) is unusual. In GoT, we've never seen anything to suggest that the Night King was anything more than the locus of power for a natural force of winter.

He didn't need motivation, because we already know it. He wants to wipe out everything living.
He didn't need to speak, or be bargained with. He's a force of nature, not a character. You're better off treating him like something like Big Brother, or Moby Dick. Not a character, but an obstacle. Yes, it's strange that Arya's the one to kill him, and not someone with more personal stake in killing him (Jon, Tormund, Ed, Sam, etc etc), but hey, that's the subversion I suppose.

Plus, seeing all the small nuances of Arya's training come together in that one scene/moment/episode is a good payoff for her arc.

Gael Knight wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

 Gael Knight wrote:
So you just made that up? Great. Sounds awful. Hope they don't revisit it if that's the true explanation.

In hindsight I thought it was a bit much when Melisandre turned and winked at the camera when she said the line about "blue eyes" tbh.

Not made up at all. The pictures and symbols are all around the show. Jon even pointed them out in the Dragonglass cave last season.

Spoiler:

You said it was the Night King mocking the symbols. I want to know what the significance of the symbols are in the first place.

And how will that affect anything?
Night King is a destructive force of nature. He has a connection to arcane symbols. Honestly, the closest you will get is "they have something to do with the magic that created him". If that is the explanation, why is that bad?

Mr Morden wrote:If you are going to spend that much money on a "biggest fight ever" - it would be nice to be able to see what the feth was happening,

I see a lot of people complaining about this - I didn't find it that hard to watch, and I'm watching on a laptop at half brightness. The only bit I struggled with was the dragon fight, which was just very fast moving, and didn't have much in the way of making the dragons distinct enough. I can barely tell them apart at the best of times, so trying to pick out who was who was difficult.

Shockingly awful battle plans throughout but then thats Jon Snow (who has never wn a battle) and Dany (who is not really a general)

There were some moments of "this is a good idea, or at the very least, basic" - the spiked ramparts and barricades, but the siege weapons, the initial charge of the Dothraki, and certain characters just simply not taking advantage of the Unsullied shieldwalls was irritating. However, minor complaint. It didn't ruin it for me.

So did Ghost die? At least

Spoiler:

both Dragons are still ok

I thought Ghost had died, but no, you can see him in the trailer for the next episode. He's in a shot of the massed army outside/nearby Winterfell.

Thought it was a good episode.

When people are talking about problems with deployment they are assuming that this is one large fully fledged cohesive army loyal to a single general. This isn't the case. The Dothraki are stubborn, arrogant and fight on open plains... they don't do siege warfare (which this isn't anyway considering they are against zombies, giants and undead dragons)

As for speculation..... What if the Spirals (There are 7 legs) are representative of the 7 Kingdoms and the nature of time? Cersi is killed, Dany goes all mad king to claim the throne and something happens which means John becomes the Night King (Would explain the whole ICE and FIRE thing and how the NK is immune to flame) and Bran rebuilds the wall.

It's another weird self-fulling paradoxical prophecy similar to the Hodor storyline. It is told that 'Bran the builder' built the wall in the past. That past Bran is actually the Bran we have been following, we are watching the past being created, that is being told in the present. Everything is a spiral. We are doomed to repeat the past... not EXACTLY the same as before, but as we know, the past doesn't necessarily repeat but it sure does ryhme... just like a song... OF ICE AND FIRE

There are also the Seven gods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.wired.com/story/game-of-thrones-winterfell-battle-tactical-analysis/

 Hollow wrote:
Thought it was a good episode.

When people are talking about problems with deployment they are assuming that this is one large fully fledged cohesive army loyal to a single general. This isn't the case. The Dothraki are stubborn, arrogant and fight on open plains... they don't do siege warfare (which this isn't anyway considering they are against zombies, giants and undead dragons)

As for speculation..... What if the Spirals (There are 7 legs) are representative of the 7 Kingdoms and the nature of time? Cersi is killed, Dany goes all mad king to claim the throne and something happens which means John becomes the Night King (Would explain the whole ICE and FIRE thing and how the NK is immune to flame) and Bran rebuilds the wall.

It's another weird self-fulling paradoxical prophecy similar to the Hodor storyline. It is told that 'Bran the builder' built the wall in the past. That past Bran is actually the Bran we have been following, we are watching the past being created, that is being told in the present. Everything is a spiral. We are doomed to repeat the past... not EXACTLY the same as before, but as we know, the past doesn't necessarily repeat but it sure does ryhme... just like a song... OF ICE AND FIRE

The spokes of the wheel. The wheel that Dany pledged to smash.

Me, I kind of like the lack of explanation. The Night King is impossibly old. The symbol has lost all meaning in the lands of men since, but he keeps on doing it, because that's what he's always done.

The Night King might not be “immune” to dragon fire. The after episode interview seemed to imply he could only be killed next to the tree as that was where he was created.

Nobody has fought an undead army that size for thousands of years. They Dothraki and Unsullied fought like they were facing a very big army of human fighters. What they actually faced was an avalanche of rotten meat and bone and steel.

The defences could have been better planned though...

The first few Unsullied lines were hardly beaten, they were engulfed. Incredible moment.

The complaint about the end of the NK with him not being beaten in a straight duel echoes Philp Toynbee's infamous review of LotR - that Sauron should have faced Aragorn at the end. It misses the point that the big bads were both forces of nature rather than actual characters

In fairness, Sauron was personified as the Red Eye, and was defeated, according to WH Auden, by his one weakness - his failure to understand that the free peoples wanted to defeat his rule, not replace it. The NK was more blank in comparison

Thought on first viewing the episode was meh, but I loved it second time with the brightness turned up.

Was that poor Alys Karstark heading to the Godswood with Theon at the beginning? Three northern houses snuffed out in three episodes?

 AduroT wrote:
The Night King might not be “immune” to dragon fire. The after episode interview seemed to imply he could only be killed next to the tree as that was where he was created.

Well it ties into the theory that the Castle of Winterfell was built there specifically because that is where Winter fell after the first Long Night.

Another moment was the - we are fighting an enemy that raises the dead - lets put all the non combatants in the crypt.....

I don't mind confusing battles - thats war - although steady cam is always crap - but making the battle at night, using unsteady cam and then having whiteouts just make it looks like a cop out to avoid too much difficult cgi.

The problems were really there just to provide specatcle rather than make any sense (perhaps they had been tlaking to Rian Johnson or Christopher Nolan)

Also did the vaunted dragonglass weapons do anything?

The doomed charge of the Dothraki is just there to provide a cool bit in the opening sequence, absolutely nothing else. Well also to keep weakening Dan'y army. If you they are useless in a siege( apart from recon and harressment - neither of which they do) - the don'tt bring them north - keep them south to keep an eye of whats happening and to cover any retreat.

The Mellisande plot line was good - partly due to it making sense and also since she gave some light on the near pitch black screen.

So just watching the actual show and not after show interviews etc (*) - Whats the point of Bran? Just why is the NK so obessed with him that he and his mates are happy to stand around doing nothing until Aryra leaps (from somewhere) and knifes him.

(*) If you have to explain stuff like this you are as incompetant as Rian Johnson at telling the actual story.

I am wondering if the next episode is mainly focussed on what the South/Cersei is doing with its new army.

The dragonglass weapons are what kills the wights so they did work. It is known.

I thought they resolved the Night King arc too early. They should have dealt with Cersei first and then dealt with the Night King. Now they have no soldiers left to fight the Golden Company, and I don't see how they could manage without some serious bs on the writers' part. King's Landing should have been humanity's last stand, not Winterfell.

The Night King sequence was good, I like him as a villain. He doesn't say a word and there's still an air of menace about him.

The defense of winterfell was atrocious. They did everything wrong, and they are supposed to be experienced soldiers.



Is the night king even permanently dead? If the only way to beat the army of the dead is to kill the night king, and the undead was fought before by the First Men and the Children of the Forest, which led to the creation of the Night's Watch, then wouldn't that imply that there are multiple Night Kings which somehow appear if certain conditions are met?



I thought that the reason why the Night King could survive dragon fire was because he can generate so much cold it snuffs it out before it could reach it. He does appear to be able to control the weather.

To be fair, The North mostly doesn't have experienced soldiers. It's all green boys and old men after their real fighting age men were massacred at the red wedding.

Danny on the other hand has real soldiers.

 Lance845 wrote:
To be fair, The North mostly doesn't have experienced soldiers. It's all green boys and old men after their real fighting age men were massacred at the red wedding.

Danny on the other hand has real soldiers.

Yeah, but the generals should know something about defense. Jaime, Ser Jorah, Grey Worm, Tyrion and Jon all know something about tactics and have been in battle.
The fact that their rank and file didn't break and run upon seeing the undead was quite impressive, but if they did it wouldn't have been that much of a battle.

Yeah.... some people would literally never be happy no matter what was done. Probably the reason why George isn't going to finish the series.

 Lance845 wrote:
To be fair, The North mostly doesn't have experienced soldiers. It's all green boys and old men after their real fighting age men were massacred at the red wedding.

Danny on the other hand has real soldiers.

Kings Landing is also largely out of fighting men.

Between Cersei attacking/slaughtering the other noble houses, and Dany's little Barbecue last season, House Lannister is hurting for men. Hence The Golden Company.

Kind of wish they'd done more about The Golden Company, or at least explained their in-the-books rep for never breaking a contract?

I think it would have been more satisfying if S8:3 had been the traditional, "Gak just got real" episode 9 of Season 7 with the obligatory episode 10 tidy up.

That would have left an entire season for Cersei / Euron / Gold Company shenanigans. Tidying that up in 3 episodes is going to be disappointing.

Still, the show over took the source material and the writers are now relying on George's cliff notes, so we are where we are. It's not going to the satisfying ending we hoped for, but I'm sure it will be an entertaining spectacle,

I think I'll reserve full judgement so we've seen what comes next. Could be this is still the calm before the storm?

 Hollow wrote:
Yeah.... some people would literally never be happy no matter what was done. Probably the reason why George isn't going to finish the series.

Alterntaively some people will accept anything.......the battle was a few pretty pictures amongst a mass of blurred grey shapes hitting each other then in a snowstorm.

or he has no idea how to - see the last two books of awful turgid nonsense.

I have really enjoyed the series as being superior to the books (esp the later ones) in many respects but this was a real low point.

Luckily the end of Into the Badlands sees to be doing it properly.

Now they have no soldiers left to fight the Golden Company, and I don't see how they could manage without some serious bs on the writers' part.

Two dragons (and maybe a fleeting glimpse of a dire wolf) say that Cersie needs some serious BS to win.....or suddenly vast numbers of super accurate balistae (which is possible).

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
The Night King might not be “immune” to dragon fire. The after episode interview seemed to imply he could only be killed next to the tree as that was where he was created.

Well it ties into the theory that the Castle of Winterfell was built there specifically because that is where Winter fell after the first Long Night.

See, now I think you're the one conflating the books and show. I don't believe there was any real thinking behind it, just like the spiral symbol wasn't leading to anything. The NK was immune because it looked cool and made him a bad-a$$. Also because they couldn't have him defeated so easily. Um.


So today's prediction for what will go down centers on Cleganebowl. Sandor defeats Gregor (or at least the body of Gregor with Joffrey's head stapled on, because I think that's just really awesome) in a staged match at King's Landing in front of a huge crowd including Cersei, Jon, Daenerys, etc. Then he turns to Cersei and says "if I can change, and you can change, then everybody can change!"

There's a moment of silence. Then Cersei begins to clap -- slowly at first, but then faster. Everyone else starts clapping too, and soon everyone is cheering and hugging, although they're not quite sure why. They decide that everyone gets to be kings and queens, and they all live happily ever after with lots of disturbing intra-family relationships.

The think I don't know is why was Brann warging so much. What did the crows accomplish?

i assume it will be explained in latter episodes.