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Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 Overread wrote:
 StygianBeach wrote:
Since I found out how the difficulty works in Total War I just play on normal.


Honestly I wish more developers were more clear on what difficulty settings did in game in the game itself. Sometimes I think that people get hooked on the idea that the AI gets insane cheats on anything but super-easy or is specifically working differently between the difficulties.


Because that is the way it often works in strategy games.
Civ is by far the worst, where they just toss extra techs, units (including settlers) and then throw numeric economy bonuses on the AI and call it a day.
Total War also is mostly numerical adjustments- both to unit stats and AI economies.

Stat inflation is usually the go-to method for RPGs as well. And/or a damage adjustment. (-25%, 0, +25%, +50%, etc). Pathfinder:Kingmaker took this to insane lengths and bump primary and secondary stats (which also got boosted by the primary stat adjustments) which in worst cases took monster stats completely out of the bounds of the random number generator (the d20 roll).

'AI' just generally... isn't. Its hard, and tweaking numbers is a lot easier. But rarely produces a satisfying result.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/21 03:28:29


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

AI is something that has stagnated in practical terms I think. The problem is its freaking complex and most game AI are anything but AI. They don't think and many are highly repetitive with little room to vary behaviour.


It's why after a while of playing one game you can often beat the AI without thinking because whilst AI can beat a player in micro control; it can't beat a player in terms of thinking ahead or having a game plan. The AI's game plan is the same every time (or is the same within a limited pool).


It's something that I think RTS and Strategy games really show up. In shooters and such the AI doesn't need a game plan, it just needs to move and aim and shoot and if anything likely needs toning down from what it can do to give the player a chance.

In RTS what AI need is a fundamental concept of pre-planning concepts. Which I suspect is insanely hard to code into an AI which then also has to be produced on a computer game budget and run on a home PC

   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Argive wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The higher difficulty levels encourage the spamming of ranged units because melee units cease functioning as they're meant to.

Not sure why they made that choice when working out the difficulties.


Its the easiest way , they just increase some of the stat values in a table and call it done.

Not really sure what the alternative is.
I guess changing the AI behaviour which is I think what players expect/want. But this would mean doing a lot of work so no wonder option 1 is what we got lol.

But if not AI behaviour which would be really hard to code, what else can they do in a TW game? The AI already outmatches you in terms of micro management.


One think Zerk mentioend was that in previous TW games the AI could manage basic formations - front line, flanks gaurds and then flanked by its cavalry or similar.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I would wager those are pre-designed formations. It was probably l lot easier in historical games where basically the unit roster is much smaller and simpler than in Warhammer and in earlier games where the maps were far more open.

Heck the Medieval 2 AI would regularly just abandon whatever plan it started the game with to pull back a few feet and redraw lines again. Even if it was doing a siege that's how it would often try it.


I think it is a lot harder in Warhammer because there's a lot of units that don't neatly fit into simple categories and some which are very situational. Eg take the High Elf Phoenix. On the one hand its a strafing bomber that wants to sweep back and fourth over infantry lines dropping its firebomb whilst avoiding (as much as it can) ranged attacks.
On the other its a fast moving flying unit that wants to engage other flying units to prevent them flanking your army; on the other its a support unit designed to fly around and strike the rear of a unit already engaged in combat; on the other it wants to hit artillery that's left undefended or the rear or archers.


Basically it has a lot of roles; some of which have vastly different situations where they work and some where they don't.


I think the TW Warhammer AI makes up for this added complication by being far more aggressive in general. Which means it charges a lot rather than drawing lines and forcing you to come to it all the time. IT also means once combat engages things are confusing and chaotic and its weakness at fine planning isn't so apparent.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






It also always reacts to magic even if it has artillery superiority.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I did what amounted to a speed run of Sisters of Twilight VH ME. They're completely busted. You can actually autoresolve pretty much everything during that campaign and the whole 15+ Hawk Riders in their army is incredibly dumb. Anything that can actually hit you you can burst down nearly instantly.

Isabella Von Carstein is comparable in terms of ease even on VH. You can take Drakenfel (sp?) on turn 2 by swapping her out for Vlad since Mannfred always wanders off. After that the super easy version is to just wipe out the local VC and then farm them + the local Skaven for rep with the Dwarves since Dwarf AI can be bent to your will as pretty much any faction. I've gotten Karaz-a-Karak to agree to invade Reikland with me before.

Harder version is vassalize and confederate Mannfred...I don't think he or Ghorst are good enough to justify tanking Dwarf relations. You don't want to fight Dwarves because eventually Grimgore will confederate all the Greenskins and he is more independent minded than the Dwarves.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Raw power boosts are the way to go, in terms of resources and numbers. I don't like it when units get a % modifier themselves for difficulty, I would rather the OPFOR remained the same but simply got more forces to throw at you.

I play Total War Warhammer on Normal battle difficulty and Legendary strategic difficulty. I hate the nerfs on gets, even the mild 10% penalty on Hard mode, I think a unit vs unit fight should go as predicted, and I dont like it when the units are so nerfed the high difficulty games eschew most of the unit roster to better cope with the penalties.
I far rather play on Normal and force my armies to be built on 'comp' that play on Very Hard and build cheesestacks.

As for AI its hard enough to code that IO don't think the game has any business using the resources it has, little or lot, to anything less than the best of its ability regardless of difficulty level. The one exception to that is the level of tolerance or lack thereof for the players choices.


Orlanth's Player Tip - For a challenge that still feels like Warhammer play the game on Very Hard or Legendary strategic difficulty, Normal battle difficulty and add the following voluntary restrictions.

1. 50% rounded down of every army MUST be made up of tier 1 or 2 infantry or cavalry.
2. All units./characters that are not tier 1 or 2 cavalry are 0-3 per army.

Note this wording means that a Lord on its own is legal and the restriction on spamming units is not too restrictive, it ramps up the difficulty without being broken as the AUI can make cheesestacks but the player cannot. If you want six of something nasty you need a minimum of two armies.
I have two additional rules but you can leave thme out for simplicity.
3. When confederating you have one turn to make any absorbed army legal.
4. When confederating you may not disband the original faction leaders army, once legal. This is a role play inclusion, e.g. if you confederate with Middenland, their leader Boris Todbringer is still entitled to raise men under arms, whether or not you can afford to keep him doing so.
Give it a go.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/26 18:10:04


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

There are apparently some mods that put on unit caps and similar from Tabletop - Zerk is trying one at the moment.

Isabella Von Carstein is comparable in terms of ease even on VH. You can take Drakenfel (sp?) on turn 2 by swapping her out for Vlad since Mannfred always wanders off. After that the super easy version is to just wipe out the local VC and then farm them + the local Skaven for rep with the Dwarves since Dwarf AI can be bent to your will as pretty much any faction. I've gotten Karaz-a-Karak to agree to invade Reikland with me before.

Harder version is vassalize and confederate Mannfred...I don't think he or Ghorst are good enough to justify tanking Dwarf relations. You don't want to fight Dwarves because eventually Grimgore will confederate all the Greenskins and he is more independent minded than the Dwarves.


Completed a 400 turn long Campaign with Vlad and Isabella - I kept Mannfred as an independant ally - just left him Drakenhof and he acted as a powerful screen against the Dwarfs whilst I fought Chaos and with Averland took the Empire - but that was TW1 - trying out on TW2 and its def lots of different stuff. Bit wierd that the Lahmian Sisterhood is led by a male vampire who Neferata stuck in a coffin and gave to Nagash.

Also started an Imrik campaign cos Elves and Dragons

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/26 20:03:24


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Mr Morden wrote:


Also started an Imrik campaign cos Elves and Dragons


RIP

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Mr Morden wrote:
There are apparently some mods that put on unit caps and similar from Tabletop - Zerk is trying one at the moment.

Isabella Von Carstein is comparable in terms of ease even on VH. You can take Drakenfel (sp?) on turn 2 by swapping her out for Vlad since Mannfred always wanders off. After that the super easy version is to just wipe out the local VC and then farm them + the local Skaven for rep with the Dwarves since Dwarf AI can be bent to your will as pretty much any faction. I've gotten Karaz-a-Karak to agree to invade Reikland with me before.

Harder version is vassalize and confederate Mannfred...I don't think he or Ghorst are good enough to justify tanking Dwarf relations. You don't want to fight Dwarves because eventually Grimgore will confederate all the Greenskins and he is more independent minded than the Dwarves.


Completed a 400 turn long Campaign with Vlad and Isabella - I kept Mannfred as an independant ally - just left him Drakenhof and he acted as a powerful screen against the Dwarfs whilst I fought Chaos and with Averland took the Empire - but that was TW1 - trying out on TW2 and its def lots of different stuff. Bit wierd that the Lahmian Sisterhood is led by a male vampire who Neferata stuck in a coffin and gave to Nagash.

Also started an Imrik campaign cos Elves and Dragons


The problem I had with Mannfred as an ally was that it seems like everyone goes to war with him, so I got dragged into a whole heap of wars with anyone and everyone.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
There are apparently some mods that put on unit caps and similar from Tabletop - Zerk is trying one at the moment.

Isabella Von Carstein is comparable in terms of ease even on VH. You can take Drakenfel (sp?) on turn 2 by swapping her out for Vlad since Mannfred always wanders off. After that the super easy version is to just wipe out the local VC and then farm them + the local Skaven for rep with the Dwarves since Dwarf AI can be bent to your will as pretty much any faction. I've gotten Karaz-a-Karak to agree to invade Reikland with me before.

Harder version is vassalize and confederate Mannfred...I don't think he or Ghorst are good enough to justify tanking Dwarf relations. You don't want to fight Dwarves because eventually Grimgore will confederate all the Greenskins and he is more independent minded than the Dwarves.


Completed a 400 turn long Campaign with Vlad and Isabella - I kept Mannfred as an independant ally - just left him Drakenhof and he acted as a powerful screen against the Dwarfs whilst I fought Chaos and with Averland took the Empire - but that was TW1 - trying out on TW2 and its def lots of different stuff. Bit wierd that the Lahmian Sisterhood is led by a male vampire who Neferata stuck in a coffin and gave to Nagash.

Also started an Imrik campaign cos Elves and Dragons


The problem I had with Mannfred as an ally was that it seems like everyone goes to war with him, so I got dragged into a whole heap of wars with anyone and everyone.


I think I kept him as a defensive ally and ignored anyone who i did not want to war with. This time the Empire sub factions seem less friendly but on the other hand Drycha is a good ally and also allies with Sisterhood and Azhag.

Is the Imrik Campaign bad then? Seems much easier so far - lots of example missions givng you free stuff

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Mr Morden wrote:
AllSeeingSkink wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
There are apparently some mods that put on unit caps and similar from Tabletop - Zerk is trying one at the moment.

Isabella Von Carstein is comparable in terms of ease even on VH. You can take Drakenfel (sp?) on turn 2 by swapping her out for Vlad since Mannfred always wanders off. After that the super easy version is to just wipe out the local VC and then farm them + the local Skaven for rep with the Dwarves since Dwarf AI can be bent to your will as pretty much any faction. I've gotten Karaz-a-Karak to agree to invade Reikland with me before.

Harder version is vassalize and confederate Mannfred...I don't think he or Ghorst are good enough to justify tanking Dwarf relations. You don't want to fight Dwarves because eventually Grimgore will confederate all the Greenskins and he is more independent minded than the Dwarves.


Completed a 400 turn long Campaign with Vlad and Isabella - I kept Mannfred as an independant ally - just left him Drakenhof and he acted as a powerful screen against the Dwarfs whilst I fought Chaos and with Averland took the Empire - but that was TW1 - trying out on TW2 and its def lots of different stuff. Bit wierd that the Lahmian Sisterhood is led by a male vampire who Neferata stuck in a coffin and gave to Nagash.

Also started an Imrik campaign cos Elves and Dragons


The problem I had with Mannfred as an ally was that it seems like everyone goes to war with him, so I got dragged into a whole heap of wars with anyone and everyone.


I think I kept him as a defensive ally and ignored anyone who i did not want to war with. This time the Empire sub factions seem less friendly but on the other hand Drycha is a good ally and also allies with Sisterhood and Azhag.

Is the Imrik Campaign bad then? Seems much easier so far - lots of example missions givng you free stuff


I wouldint call it bad. That said I'm not sure how many patches ago I played it so maybe things have changed.
IMO it is notoriously hard on harder campaign + battle difficulties. You are dealing with double whamy of economical and geographical & strategic challenges.

From economy perspective, the capital is in a really bad place with no realistic access to any harbours so no way to establish any trade/diplomacy. Normaly by the time you can confederate Caledor and "get access" to ulthuan you will be so bogged down and invested in the east trying to defend your holdings you cant do anything with it or have resource to defend the foothold. I wish there was a way to manualy switch capitals.

The main issue is you are dealing with clan eshin to the east. They must be eradicated before they confedare with another rat faction or become too strong. The AI cheats on the numebrs of rat armies they field off just 2-3 settlements is binkers.. Rats are just a nightmare to fight startegicaly because their ambush attacks and underway. Then you have Malus to the south. By the time you finish with those you will end up either making enemies with Dwarfs or orks & possibly beatsment in the west.

The strategic campaign Is very challenging because of the terrain. You end up having to fight across the mountains with either orks dwarfs or skaven. Having to underway really puts high elves at a distadvanatge early on. It will take you like 2-3 turns to capture minor settlements all the while a main ork/beatsment army can just underway to the heart of your empire. I think on my last playthough I spent about 15 turns trying to hunt down and finish moghur(I think?). His faction would retreat to the mountains using the underway and hide. And as soon as I started moving out to capture new territory he would respawn and have a new fullstack and underway deep into my territory over 2 or so turns and sack/raze minor settlements. Basiclay ended up getting dragged into wackamole all the while the orks would do the same. Every time id capture terrioty they would recapture as soon as I marhc on and then just underway around.

All this said you start off with a dragon, fire mage and get dragon mount very early on. So very early game can be very satisfying as you can be bit OP. The unique dragons are very awesome too!

My Manfred campaign is basically done.. I think I wont bother to get the whole map. Already got half of ulthuan and the entire old world. Only left with cult of pleasure, and clan pestilence as enemies. Maybe play on until I finish the SOK building and get the dread incarnate doomstack going for a few turns of fun but thats it.

Not really sure what to play as next.
Maybe I will try Imrik again.

Think this time I will try to force march west T1 and try to get to the coast and abandon the capital before the orks war dec me. Im counting on them not war decing while im moving through their lands as relations wont be that bad. That or fight my way through to the coast before dwarf factions capture those.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Only played a few turns - but got a coast al settlement very quickly to the west and noted the Eshin to the north west. Allied with Tomb Kings and Wood Elves so far.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Dangerous Outrider




Montreal, QC Canada

I suck at playing Dark Elves. I don't know why I just can't get them to work and I keep getting rolled. The one exception now seems to be Rakarth as I can just load up on monsters. That seems to be the only way I can win with them.

Now to see if I can win this Vortex campaign before I try my hand at a Mortal Empires one.

Commodus Leitdorf Paints all of the Things!!
The Breaking of the Averholme: An AoS Adventure
"We have clearly reached the point where only rampant and unchecked stabbing can save us." -Black Mage 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
I suck at playing Dark Elves. I don't know why I just can't get them to work and I keep getting rolled. The one exception now seems to be Rakarth as I can just load up on monsters. That seems to be the only way I can win with them.

Now to see if I can win this Vortex campaign before I try my hand at a Mortal Empires one.

Slave economy farming rebellions.

T1. Crossbows spam & magic
T2.Rush shades.
Spam shades
3.Spam/rush dragons

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "


 Eonfuzz wrote:


I would much rather everyone have a half ass than no ass.


"A warrior does not seek fame and honour. They come to him as he humbly follows his path"  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Don't forget Black Arks. Also, there was a bug where the AI wouldn't detect Black Arks in cities and just throw itself into entrenched full stacks repeatedly...it might still be a thing.

The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
 
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