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I just went on to Battlescribe and saw this:

Tuesday, April 19, 2011Notice of Infringement
Today Games Workshop sent me a notice of infringement asking me to remove data files and links to them from the BattleScribe website and software. Basically the information included in the data files infringes on Games Workshop's (and other companies') copyrights. Although I knew this in the first place, I hoped that linking to these data files on another site would be OK. I have had to remove all data files and links to data files from the BattleScribe software and the website.

Games Workshop are well within their rights to ask me to do so, and I have no intention of getting into legal trouble over what is essentially a hobby for me. This is not entirely unexpected, although it is unfortunate. To be fair they have been very reasonable about the whole thing and have answered any questions I've had.

To this end:

All posts announcing new data file releases have been removed
No more such announcements will be made here
All links to data files or sources of data files have been removed
Forum posts have had data files and links to data files removed
Forums relating to the "Data Project" have been removed
Issue tracker has been removed from the forum
You will be unable to post data files, links to data files or links to pages containing data files in the forum. Any such posts will be edited to remove infringing content

The Future
What does this mean for BattleScribe? Firstly it isn't going anywhere. The software itself is not at fault in any way and I will continue to maintain and improve it. Watch this space for new versions, news and announcements. I can also continue to provide support and advice on using BattleScribe and it's data file editors. I cannot however endorse, advertise or otherwise be involved with any projects to maintain a list of data files for BattleScribe. Any discussion or links to such projects can't be on this website or in the BattleScribe software.

I wish that if GW is going to persue this kinda crap that they provide us with a computer army building tool. How does Army Builder get away with their program? Do they actually have rights from GW?

Actually, yes they do...

I'm pretty sure they don't. Anyway Wolf Lair, the makers of ArmyBuilder, get away with it because they have nothing to do with the data files. The files are a community maintained project, which would be much like swatting at flies I imagine.

Correct. ArmyBuilder doesn't actually create the files used.

The people in Spaaaaaaceeee make them.

Good luck shutting that down.

I suppose GW could sue the internet.....

TalonZahn wrote:
I suppose GW could sue the internet.....

Not too loud! They might hear!

"Grand Lord Kirby, we have found the culpirt!"

"Pray tell, who is it?"

"They call him 'Internet' my leige."

"Bring me the head of Internet!"

Actually, I think GW has a hand in the file building for AB... so I've heard anyhow.

But the AB Data Files are linked to from the wolflair website - if anything, the Battlescribe ones are LESS linkable - since they are posted on a forum rather than the 'main' Battlescribe website.

So how come Battlescribe are infringing copyright by linking to community-generated files when AB do exactly the same?

Walls wrote:Actually, I think GW has a hand in the file building for AB... so I've heard anyhow.

You'll need to source that.

As the subject of this topic clearly stated himself - GW are well within their rights. I'd think they were stupid if they were aware of blatant IP breaches and didn't do this.

ArbitorIan wrote:So how come Battlescribe are infringing copyright by linking to community-generated files when AB do exactly the same?

AB might have money and lawyers. It seems the quantity of C&D's is inversely proportional to the object of C&D's access to them.

Dang. Good thing I just downloaded all the files last week. Just in the nick of time.

Certainly AB seem to have at least tacit approval from GW. Battlescribe clearly do not or at least includes more preproduced GW IP/information?

Anyone use it?

Pffft! I have a pen and a stack of blank paper. I'll get by.

Luddite!

I use the miracle that is excel, it also means that I can build lists at work. Huzzah!

GW tried making their own army making software, it didn't hold a candle to AB and then GW found out how well AB was selling and well, where once AB did NOT make you have a subscription every bloody year or so, their agreement with GW did make it need a license of renewing subscriptions or something like that.

Sorry if that sounded weird, but i just got done watching the 6 episodes of Black Adder the thrid.,

yeah,
This is a shame, I recently switched to from AB to BattleScribe for it's MAC compatablity and the fact it's Free!

UsdiThunder wrote:...I wish that if GW is going to persue this kinda crap that they provide us with a computer army building tool...

+1 - It would be so easy for GW to hire the Dude from battlescribe to write an official product. Each codex could have a unqiue download code, like you see on some products for free mp3 downloads.

ArbitorIan wrote:So how come Battlescribe are infringing copyright by linking to community-generated files when AB do exactly the same?

Actually AB does one step more, the software also tells you when datafiles have been updated.

Panic...

notprop wrote:Luddite!

I use the miracle that is excel, it also means that I can build lists at work. Huzzah!

Guilty, and proud of it. I have written army lists on the backs of supermarket receipts, fast food bags and envelopes. If somebody wants to see the stats or rules for something, I have no problem showing them my codex. I play with the toy soldiers because my relationship with technology is adversarial at best.

Digital rights to my codex with purchase of the original? That's communism! Blast these young folks and their ridiculous ideas that innovation can be lead by demand!

Seriously though. What is going to happen when there is a 3D printer in every home and we just print our models? They should get on the digital bandwagon before it is too late.

TalonZahn wrote:Correct. ArmyBuilder doesn't actually create the files used.

The people in Spaaaaaaceeee make them.

Good luck shutting that down.

They'd have absolutely no problem whatsoever shutting that down if they so desired, as there is ample legal precedent for doing so. The magical phrase is "vicarious infringement". The fact is that that while GWS clearly is disinclined to shut down AB for whatever - unknowable - reason of their own, they exist as they currently do purely at the whimsy of GW Legal.

MrLimeKing wrote:Digital rights to my codex with purchase of the original? That's communism! Blast these young folks and their ridiculous ideas that innovation can be lead by demand!

Seriously though. What is going to happen when there is a 3D printer in every home and we just print our models? They should get on the digital bandwagon before it is too late.

They will sue anyone who prints.

this is the license agreement for Army Builder. look at the last paragraph in particular.





This Agreement sets forth the terms and conditions for licensing of the Demonstration Version of Army Builder ("Software") from Lone Wolf Development ("Company") to you. Installation of the Software indicates that you have read and understand this Agreement and accept its terms and conditions. If you do not agree with the terms and conditions of this Agreement, do not install or use the Software.

Subject to the terms and conditions of this Agreement, you are granted a limited non-exclusive license to use a copy of the enclosed Software for 60 days after you install the Software. Thereafter, you must purchase the right to use the full version of the Software, for which license terms are specified separately, by contacting Company or your retailer. By your use of the Software, you understand and agree that after 60 days, you may not be able to continue to access and/or use the Software or any data you have entered into such Software unless you purchase the right to use the full version of the Software.

The Software in its entirety is protected by copyright laws. The Software also contains the trade secrets of Company and other parties, and you may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, or otherwise reduce the Software to human-perceivable form or disclose such trade secrets, or disable any functionality which limits the use of the Software. You may not attempt to modify, adapt, translate, rent, sublicense, assign, loan, resell for profit, distribute, or network the Software, Disk(s), or related materials or create derivative works based upon the Software or any part thereof.

This software is distributed for non-infringing uses only. By accepting the terms of this License, you agree to create and use data files for personal use only. You further agree to use this software only in connection with intellectual property that you have legally purchased from the respective copyright owner(s). You shall refrain from publishing, selling, gifting, sharing or exchanging any data files with other users of this software, and doing so is a violation of this License and may subject you to liability for copyright infringement.

This Agreement may be terminated by Company immediately and without notice if you fail to comply with any term or condition of this Agreement. Upon such termination, you must immediately destroy all complete and partial copies of the Software, including all backup copies.

Company reserves the right to revise this Agreement at any point in the future, at its sole discretion. Company shall have the right to change, discontinue, or impose conditions on any feature or aspect of the Software, or any internet-based services provided to you or made available to you through the use of the Software. Such changes shall be effective upon notification by any means reasonable to give you notice, or upon posting such terms in the Software, and your continued use of the Software will indicate your agreement to any such change. For the latest version of this Agreement, go to www.wolflair.com or such other site designated by Company.

The software is provided "as is", without warranty of any kind, express or implied, including, but not limited to, the implied warranties of merchantability and of fitness for any purpose. The user assumes the full risk of using the software. While reasonable efforts have been made to ensure the correct operation of the software, Company does not warrant the accuracy, performance, or results you may encounter by using the software. In no event will Company be liable for direct, indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages resulting from the use of the software or any defect within the software, even if Company has been advised of the possibility of such damages. Any liability of Company will be limited to the refund of the purchase price.

This Agreement sets forth Company's entire liability and your exclusive remedy with respect to the Software. You acknowledge that this Agreement is a complete statement of the agreement between you and Company with respect to the Software or any related services.

This Agreement does not limit any rights that Company may have under trade secret, copyright, patent, trademark or other laws. If any provision of this Agreement is invalid or unenforceable under applicable law, then it is, to that extent, deemed omitted and the remaining provisions will continue in full force and effect. No delay or failure on the part of Company in the exercise of any right granted under this Agreement, or available at law or in equity, shall be construed as a waiver of such right.

Army Builder is a registered trademark of Lone Wolf Development Inc. Lone Wolf Development is a trademark of Lone Wolf Development Inc. Other parties' trademarks or service marks are the property of their respective owners and should be treated as such. Some names and sample data used in examples and help content are fictitious and are used for illustration purposes only.

Copyright © 1997-2010 Lone Wolf Development Inc. All rights reserved.
http://www.wolflair.com/

For their next trick GW are going to warm up the ocean by having a piss in it....

Hi

I can't help but feel somewhat responsible. 2 days ago I posted on my local game club forum about battle scribe, and now this!

I am assuming the rules and codexes will stay there, they just can't link to them. Please tell me I am not wrong.

Bye
Waaagh!

SilverMK2 wrote:

ArbitorIan wrote:So how come Battlescribe are infringing copyright by linking to community-generated files when AB do exactly the same?

AB might have money and lawyers. It seems the quantity of C&D's is inversely proportional to the object of C&D's access to them.

It also might have something to do with the way it's done.


I'd never heard of BattleScribe before, but if they deviated from the way that Army Builder did it(that is to say: they didn't compile scans of the Codices/Army Books and link to those in addition to just having excel sheets made up showing the information taken from the scans) I can see GW coming down on them.

? why doesnt he move the hosting to Bullet proof or offshore.
Bugger all GW can do then


Automatically Appended Next Post:


Not if its in china or russia... good luck with that.

The other thing that might help is that ab40k.org also waits a month before adding a new army to the datafile. The battlescribe maintainers, on the other hand, have been allowing me to stare at Grey Knights for the last week and a half.

Kanluwen wrote:
I'd never heard of BattleScribe before, but if they deviated from the way that Army Builder did it(that is to say: they didn't compile scans of the Codices/Army Books and link to those in addition to just having excel sheets made up showing the information taken from the scans) I can see GW coming down on them.

If anything, the BattleScribe files contained less information than the AB files. No stats, just item names and point values. Given the raw state of the product, having the army book on hand for list creation was almost mandatory.

I understand gw wanting to protect their IP, but i am getting sick of all the stupid lawsuits. This pretty well puts the nail in the coffin for me. I was contemplating starting a second 40k army, or switching to warmachine. This makes my choice for me. Privateer press, whoich allows online army creators to operate, here's my money!

RanTheCid wrote:

If anything, the BattleScribe files contained less information than the AB files. No stats, just item names and point values. Given the raw state of the product, having the army book on hand for list creation was almost mandatory.

I agree... I like BattleScribe, but you definately require a codex to make any sort of list, whereas with AB you have almost all the rules printed on your list.

I don't understand how battlescribe got shut down for having links when AB does the auto update from within the software.

All in all GW is within their rights. I just think in that squashing products like battle scribe hurt them more than they realize. Hell if GW would develop a flash version that resided on ther website they would gain the knowledge of what the players are playing. They would know that the Nids Codex ran off a lot of Nid players. It would be instant marketing data for them.

For those who use excel that's nice, but how do I trust you put everything correctly or that you aren't flubbing a rule or a number. Pen and paper circumspect as well.

As for AB trying to read one in the 5 minutes before deploying gives me migranes since the layout is not intuitive nor makes sense.

A decent army summary that is easy to read and follow with the garauntee that the point calculations are accurate is what people want.