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Hello,

I am having a hard time with my IG list. Namely, is a IG list that can do everything confoused? If so, should I run a confoused list? This is my current list.

HQ:
Company Command Squad w/ Regimental Standard, Vox caster, power weapon.....80
Lord Commissar w/ power weapon.....80

Troops:
Infantry Platoon.....500
Platoon Command Squad w/ Vox Caster, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs.....50
Infantry Squad w/ Vox Caster, Commissar, 2 power weapons (Commissar and sargent), Melta Gun.....120
Infantry Squad w/ Power Weapon (sargent), Meltagun.....70
Infantry Squad w/ Vox Caster, Commissar, 2 power weapons (Commissar and sargent), Melta Gun.....120
Infantry Squad w/ Power Weapon (sargent), Meltagun.....70
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 Autocannons.....75
Infantry Platoon.....500
Platoon Command Squad w/ Vox Caster, Power Weapon, Melta Bombs.....50
Infantry Squad w/ Vox Caster, Commissar, 2 power weapons (Commissar and sargent), Melta Gun.....120
Infantry Squad w/ Power Weapon (sargent), Meltagun.....70
Infantry Squad w/ Vox Caster, Commissar, 2 power weapons (Commissar and sargent), Grenade Melta Gun.....120
Infantry Squad w/ Power Weapon (sargent), Meltagun.....70
Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 Autocannons.....75

Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ Heavy Bolters.....170
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ Heavy Bolters.....170

Sould I rework the list so that it can do everyting, like taking more tanks, some sentinal squads with lascannons, or somthing like that?

If that list works for ya, brah, then you have no reason to alter it.

If you are having difficulty with it please state where the problems are and why.

Peace Out!
Jonny!

I do not have the moddles for this list as of yet, so im trying to get as much info as I can befor I buy them. The reason I think I might have to change the list is because I got some advice from someone at my local gaming store. He said this list would kill against nids, but would die against eldar and other mobile tank foces. So I am wondering if it sould be usefull to change the list somehow.

I'd make your Company and Platoon Command Squads less Cloese Combat oriented and swap your Auto Cannons for Lascannons or Melta Storm Trooper and/or drop a Russ and take more in the way of anti-tank.

Many an option is open to you but Power Blobs are a good core to an army if that's how you want to play so it's just the support units that you should be looking to alter.

What are you likely to come up against most? Are Eldar common in your local games or are you attempting to make a competitive list?

Help us to help you.

Peace!

What's so confusing about it? It's power blobs with armor. It should work fine.

I mean, it's still tweakable, but this is far from a crappy type of list.

List seems fine. I don't know whether you need the Lord Commisar; the standard Commisars are just fine for keeping morale. I'd be inclined to drop him and use his points for special weapons for the PCS and CCS.

L. Wrex

Thanks for the advice. As for "confused", it's the turm we use at my local gaming store for units that try to do to many things.

Try "Dual purpose" instead of confused.

From the looks of it, AV14 land raiders, Dark Eldar of any variant, scatter-laser focused Mechdar, and Necrons are going to cause you heartbreak if they are piloted by competent players.

I've been running "confused" Imperial Guard for three editions now, and it hasn't been too bad. You'll probably have more trouble against a few very focused armies, but there will be fewer armies that provide a hard counter to your list. Just play smart and keep your eye on the mission objectives.

So to answer more succinctly, I think there's nothing wrong with the idea, but I do think there's a lot of optimization you can do to run a better version of your list.

I'm not sure I agree that land raiders will be a huge problem, from afar they are not a threat, and this sort of army can absorb an assault from raider contents without too much worry. I think Dashofpepper might be right about the various D/Eldar forms that might cause trouble. On the other hand, you should be well equipped to deal with Space Wolf vehicle spam and most of the Grey Knights lists I've seen. Just keep your guardsmen in cover and spaced out. Don't give away free kills by clumping guys up.

You have 1000 pts split up amongst two squads ... if those get assaulted by pretty much anything except Tau you will lose.

I am pretty sure my 110pt Incubi squad could wipe out most of your Army in 2 turns.

Two Heavy Weapon Teams that are T3. It doesn't take a lot of firepower to take down 6 two wound T3 models that have 4+ cover (or 3+ if they go to ground).

There's very little in the way of anti-tank in this list...and this *is* a mechanized world we live in.

aggie0462, he's got enough commissars to put them into 4 21 man squads. Perhaps you don't have much experience against IG blobs, but it's not about winning and losing combats, it's about killing. They won't break, and they'll put out 9 power weapon attacks per turn that won't go away until you kill 18 other guys. They give better than they get against a wide variety of assault units in the game, and put out decent firepower in the process. I don't think Incubi are high on the list of problems for those units. Orc Boyz yes. Elite, low toughness units, no.

The AC teams are certainly a weakness, especially considering there's not much else for Autocannons (and similar weapons) to shoot at in this list. An alternative might be to keep the Leman Russ theme and trade both AC teams for an Exterminator. You'll have about half the firepower, but it will be much tougher and be able to move and fire, which all in all will net you more kills over the course of most games.

I think if one wants to make a list of infantry with high durability/point (ie, stubborn guardsmen) a certain loss of AT can be accepted because a lot of tanks just won't put out enough damage to be feared. You do need to have some focused anti-tank fire to take care of the 1-2 vehicles in any army that will cause you the most grief, but most of those tend to be lower armor (land speeders, transports, artillery), so Autocannons, however one includes them, are the weapon for the job.

Biophysical wrote:I think if one wants to make a list of infantry with high durability/point (ie, stubborn guardsmen) a certain loss of AT can be accepted because a lot of tanks just won't put out enough damage to be feared.

This is an interesting point, and one that has never occurred to me. Your list doesn't have anything to fear from the Hydras and Warwalkers of the game. Your infantry can handle virtually any infantry your opponent can throw at you, so gear your Russes to take down tanks that threaten them. You need not worry about mid-ranged shooting, just artillery and Meltaguns. Without the HWS, the Russes HBs and the Lord Commissar you can almost afford two more Russes. Exterminators and Demolishers for light and heavy armor respectively. Hell, it might be worth taking a couple Vanquishers to deal with Landraiders. Then again, a pair of LRBTs could consistently glance it and would have a broader range of targets. Maybe something like:

CCS, Standard, Vox, 70
PCS, Vox, 35
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PCS, Vox, 35
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, 300
Leman Russ Exterminator, 150
Leman Russ Exterminator, 150

DarkHound wrote:

Biophysical wrote:I think if one wants to make a list of infantry with high durability/point (ie, stubborn guardsmen) a certain loss of AT can be accepted because a lot of tanks just won't put out enough damage to be feared.

This is an interesting point, and one that has never occurred to me. Your list doesn't have anything to fear from the Hydras and Warwalkers of the game. Your infantry can handle virtually any infantry your opponent can throw at you, so gear your Russes to take down tanks that threaten them. You need not worry about mid-ranged shooting, just artillery and Meltaguns. Without the HWS, the Russes HBs and the Lord Commissar you can almost afford two more Russes. Exterminators and Demolishers for light and heavy armor respectively. Hell, it might be worth taking a couple Vanquishers to deal with Landraiders. Then again, a pair of LRBTs could consistently glance it and would have a broader range of targets. Maybe something like:

CCS, Standard, Vox, 70
PCS, Vox, 35
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PCS, Vox, 35
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks, 300
Leman Russ Exterminator, 150
Leman Russ Exterminator, 150

I think I like this idea. What do you think of replacing one exterminator with a squad of scout sentinels with lascannons for more AT power? The list would look like this.

CCS, Standard, Vox, 70
PCS, Vox, 35
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PCS, Vox, 35
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
PIS, Vox, Commissar, 2 PWs, Meltagun, 120
PIS, PW, Meltagun, 70
Leman Russ Battle Tank, 150
Lemon Russ Battle Tank, 150
Leman Russ Exterminator, 150
scout sentinel, lascannon 50
scout sentinel, lascannon 50
scout sentinel, lascannon 50

Ah, but that gives all those weapons your opponent was wasting a purpose. You gain more AT, but the Sentinels require more AT to cover than they bring (but only because they don't have target saturation). The point of this concept seems to be an absence of targets, the opposite of the target saturation that makes light armor spam work so well.

Are you sure you need those 7 voxes? 35 points could buy all manner of useful weapons. I agree with Darkhound that you want to stay clear of sentinels of any flavor in this list. AV14 or flak armor, nothing in between to give medium weapons good targets.

DashofPepper already mentioned a potential weakness of the OP's list versus Necrons. I'll second that point and specify a Necron list with two Monoliths.

What do you do when the bastids deep strike on top of two of your objectives in the middle of all of your troops and just keep blasting. Yes, your blobs will survive four or five turns of Monolith fire but you'll end up with contested objectives because you can't displace the Monoliths.

Two melta guns and a single melta bomb armed model (if the PCS is nearby) are not likely to do enough damage to wreck a Monolith before the game ends.

If you don't face any Necrons at your FLGS then I guess you don't have to worry about it.

Against Necrons: Go for phase out? Plentiful battlecannon rounds and troops that can occupy a fairly huge amount of territory mean there's not a lot of safe places for Necrons to teleport to. The blobs will do wounds in combat, and well positioned battle cannons will make Necrons in deep strike formation pay for it.

If phase out is not possible (and it very well may not be), I'd just go for the non-monolith objectives. You can pile enough guys to claim those pretty reliably. With two objective games, it's probably going to be too tough to move the monoliths without a lot of luck, so I'd say that's the biggest problem. I feel like it would be decently competitive otherwise.

The idea of a "confused" list makes me wonder if there is an advantage in not spamming units but instead using similar units with overlapping capabilities to give you more options.

An example would be using a Manticore, a LRBT and a LR Demolisher. 3 unique types of units but there is significant overlap within the choices like long range pie plates, AV14 and S10 so one or more of the choices can work as backup if the optimal unit is destroyed or disabled. My thinking is that you would have more tools on the table that you could use in a more optimal way instead of relying on 1 unit spammed to do everything pretty well.

Or I'm just talking out of my bum.

minigun762 wrote:The idea of a "confused" list makes me wonder if there is an advantage in not spamming units but instead using similar units with overlapping capabilities to give you more options.

Speaking from experience: yes.

For the cost of a LR exterminator, you can get two Hydras.

You're swapping one AV14 TL autocannon with heavy bolter for four AV12 TL autocannons with two heavy bolters on two seperate models that ignore skimmer turbo boosting saves.

I don't really see how that's even a decision, to be honest.

As has been discussed throughout most of the thread, the this army is trying to take advantage of a lack of mid AV vehicles to waste all the opponents anti-medium armor weapons. Hydras are obviously great in a AV12 heavy list, but a couple AV12 hulls alone would get shut down quickly as they are the only good targets for those weapons.

The OP is trying to make a versatile, infantry heavy list, so the vehicles that are included need to be tough because people gear up to take down light armor at range and heavy armor up close. Having only infantry and fire support Russes limits the usefulness of both these weapon sets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, remember that the TLAC on the Exterminator is Heavy 4, so it's like 2 ACs. It trades half the firepower for massively increased survivability and no loss of firepower while moving.