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 Zid wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
The skullreaver DP actually kills a knight on average rolls straight up(if he's warlord). He can fight twice BTW, so theoretically, he can kill 2 knights on the same turn.
7 attacks on charge = 6 wounds (2+ rerollable, 3+ rerollable, no knight save) * 3.5 + 1.2 * 2 + claw attack

My biggest issue with them is how squishy they are. A knights overwatch can easily kill the Demon prince on decent rolls; especially relying on a 4++ (with strat). You have to either get something else to charge and connect first, or cross your fingers.

Well yeah, you either charge something else first or you charge a gallant who can't overwatch. Still you really have to have a good melee unit to screen around the DP

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Can i bring 3x 1000 Sons DP AND DP of Chaos? Does it count by rule of three or they are not affected by rule of three because of different name (so 1k Sons DP can't use pistol from index) ?

It’s a technically legal RAW interpretation that (1) you may well find TO’s taking exception to, and (2) May go the way of Warptimed T1 Termicide with the next FAQ.

Potentially powerful, expensive to buy into, and not guaranteed to be allowed after Christmas. Bully for anyone who’s got them already

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
The skullreaver DP actually kills a knight on average rolls straight up(if he's warlord). He can fight twice BTW, so theoretically, he can kill 2 knights on the same turn.
7 attacks on charge = 6 wounds (2+ rerollable, 3+ rerollable, no knight save) * 3.5 + 1.2 * 2 + claw attack

My biggest issue with them is how squishy they are. A knights overwatch can easily kill the Demon prince on decent rolls; especially relying on a 4++ (with strat). You have to either get something else to charge and connect first, or cross your fingers.

Well yeah, you either charge something else first or you charge a gallant who can't overwatch. Still you really have to have a good melee unit to screen around the DP

you'd still be rather cost effective if you brought a small squad of bloodletters with banner and had them DS with large charge range to eat the overwatch, and you'd possibly have abalative wounds after the fight. Lastly, you coudl save the CP in games where it's not nessary or spend less by not paying for the strat banner.

Hmm. Bloodletter guided blind missile. Not a bad idea. Especially if you’re already taking a Battalion with one or two bloodbombs.

Ive found Bloodletters to be hilariously effective on overwatch. I bring a max 30 with instrument and the banner stratagem so their charge out of deepstrike becomes 3d6+1. This allows them to all but ignore most flamers, and in one game allowed me to wipe out a 10 man squad of flamer rubric marines.

Another good option is footslogging flesh hounds. Theyre super fast and are not big threats on board aside from being able to DTW. 75 points nets you 5 bodies and 10 wounds , with relatively laege base sizes (for entangling lots of models!)

a whole bunch of bl can seriously damage an Ik with bit of luck they can remove it from table, they are maybe the best answer demons have against those big guys.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
The skullreaver DP actually kills a knight on average rolls straight up(if he's warlord). He can fight twice BTW, so theoretically, he can kill 2 knights on the same turn.
7 attacks on charge = 6 wounds (2+ rerollable, 3+ rerollable, no knight save) * 3.5 + 1.2 * 2 + claw attack

My biggest issue with them is how squishy they are. A knights overwatch can easily kill the Demon prince on decent rolls; especially relying on a 4++ (with strat). You have to either get something else to charge and connect first, or cross your fingers.

Well yeah, you either charge something else first or you charge a gallant who can't overwatch. Still you really have to have a good melee unit to screen around the DP

Walking into an IK isn't really answer, they can still fall back and shoot the next turn (plus you cannot fight it unless it was declared as a charge target). Sending something else in first is a great answer, which is seems Bloodletters may be a good answer. I'm just waiting to see whats in store in the next FAQ before I plan a new list.

Yeah, that's what I meant.

 blackmage wrote:
a whole bunch of bl can seriously damage an Ik with bit of luck they can remove it from table, they are maybe the best answer demons have against those big guys.

Well, a Skullreaver DP is actually a way better answer. It has the damage output to ruin a knight in one turn, while you need to get lucky to bring them down with letters.

Dp cant charge alone it's squishy, you risk a lot in overwatch against a castellan for example.

 blackmage wrote:
Dp cant charge alone it's squishy, you risk a lot in overwatch against a castellan for example.

It probably won't die to overwatch, unless you're incredibly unlucky. It doesn't even need to survive past one charge. It will handedly bring down a Castellan in one assault, and by then it's already pulled more than it's weight. Heck, charge a regular ol' Dominus and you still get double to triple its cost in return.

Is the single turn Knight kill using Frenetic Bloodlust?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Is the single turn Knight kill using Frenetic Bloodlust?

With the Skullreaver DP? Nope.

Hmm. I’d expect one of the five attacks to fail to hit or wound. Let’s say there’s two MW from the Skullreaver. Let’s say the Talon inflicts a Wound as well (on average, less). So that’s four damage rolls, each inflicting D6 damage, got to roll 21 to take down a Questoris class, 25 to kill a Dominus. Even if all of the five attacks get through, and two roll 6’s to wound, and the claw gets through, that’s still having to roll an 18 on 5D6 to bring it down... that’s only just sneaking through with a reroll.

Don’t get me wrong, that’s still remarkable damage output, and easily enough to bump an axe prince up my project queue, but it’s an above average set of rolls that I’ll not be relying on to do the job alone. At the very least, if the knight’s death were essential, I’d be assigning 3CP or a unit of bloodletters.

5 attacks? He has 6 on charge (7 with the trait).

with all those IK's rampaging around, what's the best demons list to bring at tournaments (mono codex or allied), thx.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Can i bring 3x 1000 Sons DP AND DP of Chaos? Does it count by rule of three or they are not affected by rule of three because of different name (so 1k Sons DP can't use pistol from index) ?

It’s a technically legal RAW interpretation that (1) you may well find TO’s taking exception to, and (2) May go the way of Warptimed T1 Termicide with the next FAQ.

Potentially powerful, expensive to buy into, and not guaranteed to be allowed after Christmas. Bully for anyone who’s got them already

I just primed my 4th DP, more because I love the model and wanted one for each of the 4 gods, but thanks for reminding me to finish them and attempt this cheese before the nerf.

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
5 attacks? He has 6 on charge (7 with the trait).

I was counting the bonus attack from the charge

Five Axe, one Talon, odds of a solo clean Questor kill look less than a coin flip

5 base attacks+1 for charge+1 for talons 7 total attacks if charge/charged

Aaaaah Khorne DPs get a bonus attack all the time in addition to an extra when charges happen, I see it now. Yeah, that’s definitely moving up the project queue

yes it has 5 attacks in profile not 4

 Zid wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Glitcha wrote:
Has anyone got summoning to work for them? I've been experimenting with it as a way to replace models that have died but not putting all my points in it. Example, I played a 1000pts game and I had 105pts in summoning.

The biggest issue with Summoning is its basically reserve points that you aren't guarenteed to successfully use... on top of it, you can't move before summoning. Plus the game is still extremely alpha-strike heavy, especially with Knights being so prevalent. I dunno, I just can't stomach the uncertainty; I can see it being useful to bring back a character like Epidemus, but after you die I believe the tally resets, so... dunno. Might be nifty to bring in a unit of Brimstones to hold an objective last second.

In my recent game. from the example in my post above. I used the points to summon back 5 of my 10 flesh hounds that had got killed in the first turn. Which yes I was not able to move, but the character summoning was a hearld on Juggernaut that was already in CC. I don't think you would ever summon with the big guys that you want to keep moving on the table. It would be more for a utility character that is supporting your army. Get them some place on the table where they can camp for a turn and then summon whatever unit you are waiting. The nice thing is you don't have to declare what unit. Just that you are going to summon and the number of d6's you plan to use. (1-3)

It provides some flexibility, but if your talking from a competitive standpoint it has a few problems:
1) The units aren't a part of your army, so you lose out on CP/Detachment bonuses
2) Larger games means more guns, meaning gimping yourself early isn't necessarily good
3) Summoning some utility or troops can have use, but it can still be luck related

I can see it working in lower point levels, I just have problems buying it higher up. I'd probably give it a try if I could summon in units from my army from reserve, as opposed to spending CP, but... meh.

To your first point I would argue that when you are list building only putting partial points in summoning you can still get your CP's and detachment bonuses. Example, I'm only putting 10% of my total points in summoning. Mainly to meta-gate a first turn alpha strike. To your second point, we are mainly talking about enough summon points to bring back 1 full unit or 2 small units.

I've done another test game. Honestly summoning is turning into a late game or mid game clutch move. Which so far has been working. I got my DP into combat with a Deathguard marine squad. In my next turn, I chose to not move since the bulk of my opponent's army was in charge range and summoned a unit of blood letters to help support my DP as I started to push through the Deathguard line.

Who said your extra attack has to be talon? An extra attack can be made with any weapon, he just has two weapons to choose from.

*edit* My mistake, you DO need frenetic bloodlust. You can 100-0 an armiger with ease, but you need to fight twice to obliterate the big boys (on average at least. Its 16 wounds average, so it isnt hard to get lucky.)

korne Dp with skullreaver on charge get 6 axe swings and 1 talon swing, or 5 axe and 2 talons, you can choose. Total is always 7.

 vaklor4 wrote:
Who said your extra attack has to be talon? An extra attack can be made with any weapon, he just has two weapons to choose from.

*edit* My mistake, you DO need frenetic bloodlust. You can 100-0 an armiger with ease, but you need to fight twice to obliterate the big boys (on average at least. Its 16 wounds average, so it isnt hard to get lucky.)

Is the 16 avg wounds factoring in the extra mortals on 6s to wound? Also if he's your warlord he gas 7 attacks with the axe on the charge w/ Legendary fighter.

To the overwatch arguement. Charge him over a building because you gave him wings. No LOS to the DP = no overwatch.

It is, yes. On average you will only get one d3 mortal wounds, which on average is 2 damage.

 blackmage wrote:
korne Dp with skullreaver on charge get 6 axe swings and 1 talon swing, or 5 axe and 2 talons, you can choose. Total is always 7.

Are you required to use at least 1 attach for the talon? Couldn't you use all 7 attacks with skullreaver?

u have 5 basic attacks with skullreaver+1 for charge+1 for legendary fighter the last extra attack remain MUST be delivered with talon or no extra attacks at all

 vaklor4 wrote:
Who said your extra attack has to be talon? An extra attack can be made with any weapon, he just has two weapons to choose from.

*edit* My mistake, you DO need frenetic bloodlust. You can 100-0 an armiger with ease, but you need to fight twice to obliterate the big boys (on average at least. Its 16 wounds average, so it isnt hard to get lucky.)

Your Maths is a bit off there: the Skullreaver does around 20W to an Imperial Knight with 6 attacks and does around 24W with 7 attacks. My guess is you forgot that the Skullreaver lets you re-roll all to wound rolls against Titanic models.

 whembly wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
korne Dp with skullreaver on charge get 6 axe swings and 1 talon swing, or 5 axe and 2 talons, you can choose. Total is always 7.

Are you required to use at least 1 attach for the talon? Couldn't you use all 7 attacks with skullreaver?

I'm pretty sure the wording on the Malefic Talon is, "Whenever the bearer attacks, he can make one additional attack with this weapon." (emphasis mine)