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Hi guys, I have never played as or played against Dark Eldar before, so i need all the experience you guys can share : )

Recent edition have so much transport, so i was wondering what are some reliable units for tank hunting?

Straight off the bat , the new Razorwing seems like a good choice , though if there are other good alternatives , i rather not take Razorwing as i find them not aesthetically suited for my current army.
Trueborn with blasters? how do they fare, and should they use Venom or Raider for transport?

I have 2 units of 5 Incubi, should they combine into 1 unit of 10?

If i field Kabalite warriors , should they have Raiders? or foot slogging is ok and cheap?

Reavers, what should i use them for if i have only unit of 3?

Thats all i can think for now , thanks in advance

Adding list here so it wont take 2 separate threads :3

HQ: 405pts
Drazhar
Lelith

Elite: 460pts
4 Incubi 1 Klaivex wi/ Bloodstone, Murderous Assault = 150pts
5 Incubi = 110pts ( Drazhar goes here )
10 Kabalite Trueborn: 4x Blaster Dracon , Blastpstiol : 200pts

Troops: 450pts
10 Kabalite Warrior , Shredder, Splinter Cannon: 105pts
10 Kabalite Warrior , Shredder, Splinter Cannon: 105pts

10 Wyches, 2x shardnet and Impaler : 120pts
10 Wyches, 2x shardnet and Impaler : 120pts

Heavy Support
Razorwing Jetfighter: Splinter Canon , Flicker Shield , Night Field: 175pts

Wa... forgot to include transports...

There are many schools of thought on the matter. Most of which involve ravagers and trueborn blaster squads in venoms, with haywire grenades often coming into play too. More radical ideas involve min squads of dark lance trueborn put in cover, along with a venom to run around on its own sniping infantry or... well, that's pretty much it, really. The rest is mostly a personal preference thing, and most general concepts can be made to work fairly well if done right, even if not all of them can be competitive in a tournament.

Personally my favorite is the Darklance (and other darklight waepons). You can get a LOAD of them into a relatively small point limit (thanks to 115 point ravagers), the only real issue they have is cracking through living metal and blessed hulls. Blaster trueborn do this job equally well as ravagers, just at shorter range. Haywire grenades are my answer to anything you can't kill with darklight.

Don't combine your Incubi, I've found 5 to be the perfect number. Any more than that and you are likely to wipe out the unit you assault straight away. This leaves you open to getting shot.

Your warriors are best off in a raider, unless you play with a load of terrain, the T3 5++ is just not good enough to let you run across the board.

Reavers are best in a unit of 6, with either 2 heat lances or 2 cluster caltrops (sp?). In a 3 they arent reliable enough, I'd either get another box of them, or not use them.

Im thinking if i should increase Wych size and or add some haywire grenade. And i dont seem to have much defense in CC against high T targets :x

(PS, Razorwing looks really out of place amidst bunch of Raiders, since they look like bunch of sail boats >.< )

So is everything foot slogging? If so it all looks very fragile (even by DE standards).

You've also managed to pick two very over priced HQ's (imo), If you're making a themed army it's okay, but from a purely competitive point of view, I wouldn't take either of them.

Its impossible to answer your questions in proper detail without writing a massive explanation of everything in the Dark Eldar codex. Its probably the most flexible codex in the game and you have a huge number of units which can be built to complement each other. Just as example good tank hunting units in the codex include; Archon with Blaster, Harlies with Fusion Pistols, Trueborn with Blasters or Dark Lances, Warriors with Dark Lance or Blaster + Blast Pistol, Reavers with Heat Lances, Scourges with Blasters, Dark Lances, Blasters or Haywire Launchers and the Ravager. You can add in Grotesques, Beasts, Hellions, Talos and anything with Haywire Grenades if you include assault options. Obviously you can't take all of these in the same list and you would need to build the rest of your list appropriately. Also some are clearly better than others (although there are other factors like scoring units which factor in) but hopefully you realise how many options you have.

From the top though;

The Razorwing is not an anti tank unit, it is primarily an anti infantry unit because of its long range large blast missiles. Its also not that unusual to see it with Disintegrators + Splinter Cannon for a purely anti infantry role. Ravagers are usually the default option in the heavy slot (Talos in a Portal list or lists built around either of the fliers being the exception) as they are the cheapest source of Dark Lances.

Blaster Trueborn are probably the most popular Elites choice for a similar reason, they are the cheapest way to get massed Blasters for anti tank. They are fairly squishy though, which means they aren't suited to every list. There is no definitive answer for Venom vs Raider (not just for Trueborn actually), the Venom is generally a better option for them as it complements their anti tank role but the Raider gets you another Dark Lance if you need the anti tank.

2 units are far more flexible than 1 and give you an element of redundancy (applies in general not just for Incubi), which is very important with the fragility of Dark Eldar. 5 is enough to reliably take out a combat squad of Marines on the charge, which is plenty in most cases. Going for two larger units or 7-10 would work if you really want to push the Incubi build as your main killing power, but a single unit of 10 is just a massive points sink which is an obvious target.

For Warriors taking a Raider (or Venom if its 5 strong) is more common than not, unless you are taking a 20 strong unit then an extra vehicle is usually worth it even if they won't be using it much (i.e they have a Dark Lance). For Dark Lance Warriors it is a place you can save a few points if you need to cut some though.

3 Reavers isn't enough to reliably threaten any vehicle unfortunately, you need 6 to get the second special weapon. I would always take them with Heat Lances though, its the most effective anti tank weapon (aside from maybe the Fusion Pistol lol) Dark Eldar have and they have the mobility to get into the required half range (and then jump back to a safer distance).

For your list, the first thing I would do would be to drop both the special characters asap. Its a 1500pt list and you have 405pts tied up in characters, which is more than I would probably have at 2500pts. From an actual effectiveness point of view Drazhar is a bit of a waste because Vect is only 10pts more and far more powerful. Lelith is simply terrible, S3 doesn't scare anything really. Once you do that and clean up a few other pointless upgrades (6 Trueborn doing nothing and Klaviex + Bloodstone on a unit which already slaughters MEQ being the main ones) then you would have the points you need to get enough anti tank in there.

The best anti vehicle response is a mixed force I swear by 6 ravagers with heat lances, talos w/ TL heat lance, wytches with waywire grenades...

The blaster venom squad is a joke It is EXTREMELY FRAGILE I played ~8 games before I removed it from my list. The codex has been out long enough now that people know to kill that unit FIRST, and they DO, with ease.

Get over "Lance" Yes you can kill that armor 14 land raider YAY but ever tried armor 12? Where the bonus is useless. It is not as easy as you think. I gave up counting on dark lances for anti tank a long time ago.

The Grundel wrote:The best anti vehicle response is a mixed force I swear by 6 ravagers with heat lances, talos w/ TL heat lance, wytches with waywire grenades...

Ravagers cant take heat lances, only Dark Lances and Disintergrators....And you ony have three heavy support slots. Unless you mean Reaver Jetbikes, you're not running a legal list.

The Grundel wrote:The blaster venom squad is a joke It is EXTREMELY FRAGILE I played ~8 games before I removed it from my list. The codex has been out long enough now that people know to kill that unit FIRST, and they DO, with ease.

The source of their strength is you can have 6 of them in a 1500 list easily. Each of these is packing 12 poisoned shots and a 1/3 chance of ignoring whatever you shoot at it, Its a VERY powerful unit for its point cost. Its no more fragile than any other DE unit if you havent noticed.

The Grundel wrote:Get over "Lance" Yes you can kill that armor 14 land raider YAY but ever tried armor 12? Where the bonus is useless. It is not as easy as you think. I gave up counting on dark lances for anti tank a long time ago.

I'll answer that with "get over AP1", its not the only way take down a vehicle. Sure you shouldn't depend on them as the only anti-tank in your list, but for their cost they are the best anti-tank in the codex. Taking into consideration their range and the number of units that can take darklight weapons, they are a damn good source of anti-tank. All you need to do is 2 on your opponents vehicle and move on, it takes them out of the game and you dont have to worry about it until next turn.

I'm going to ignore the list and focus on the questions and let you take a look at some of the other threads out their in dakka world on building your list.

LunaHound wrote:Recent edition have so much transport, so i was wondering what are some reliable units for tank hunting? Trueborn with blasters? how do they fare, and should they use Venom or Raider for transport?

The favorites for tank hunting from what I've seen are reavers with heat lances, ravagers, trueborn with blasters, wyches with haywire grenades, and scourges with either blasters or haywire blasters. I don't condone reavers since they're only T5 and can't turboboost and fire at vehicles. They have to move regularly to fire the heat lance and essentially becomes a suicided unit b/c they will get shot and killed once you pop a single transport or tank. Ravagers work well, 3 Dark lances, 36" range. Trueborn, 4 blasters, effective under 24" range with 6" movement from their transport. They really should not be disembarked to fire unless you're desperate to kill something. They get very squishy, very fast once they aren't in a boat anymore. Scourges are one of 2 units that can take a haywire blaster. The haywire blaster is really good at 1 thing, and that's buying time and preventing a tank from firing. They will not kill anything on a regular basis but they will disrupt the enemy and prevent something from firing pretty consistently.

LunaHound wrote:Straight off the bat , the new Razorwing seems like a good choice , though if there are other good alternatives , i rather not take Razorwing as i find them not aesthetically suited for my current army.

As mentioned before, excellent troop killer, not so much AT. Ravagers work better for AT and are much cheaper.

LunaHound wrote:I have 2 units of 5 Incubi, should they combine into 1 unit of 10?

Powerguy had an excellent response to this one. DE excell when using MSU, simply b/c it gives us more targets than the enemy can fire at, making DE live longer to kill more. You want to kill the enemy in their round of cc. Any more than 5 and you may well just murder the whole squad on one assault.

LunaHound wrote:If i field Kabalite warriors , should they have Raiders? or foot slogging is ok and cheap?

Warriors die very quick. They're only T3 with a 5+ save. Any chance to give them a boat, be it a raider or a venom, do it. Think of it more as buying a raider, or buying a venom, and the warriors are the bonus, not the other way around. Warriors work best, imo, in a squads of 5 with a single blaster, loaded onto a venom with 2 splinter cannons. Our vehicles are our biggest asset.

LunaHound wrote:Reavers, what should i use them for if i have only unit of 3?

I touched on this before. A lot of people use them for the access to heat lances. I don't like suicide units. Reavers have worked best for me when using them in squads of 6 with cluster caltrops to hammer enemy units that aren't in transports. They can have a lot of automatic hits during the movement phase and set up squads of wyches or another nearby assault unit to sweep in and finish them off for an easy pain token. They have the problem of being forced to move close in to the enemy every other turn though due to turboboosting acroos the board, then back, then across the board etc. Your opponent won't miss the opportunity to shoot them when they get close, especially if they can get a flamer in there that ingores their cover save.

Some good reads for playing DE are Thor's tactica, as well as Dash's.

Hope this helps, good luck.

1. I meant reavers not ravager may bad.
2. AP1 is NOT the appeal of the heatlance.
3. I was talking about trueborn venom suicide squads, not troop squads.


Dashes article of winning with dark eldar is less what to take and how to use it, and more how to manipulate the rules for a win.

Gorechild wrote:

The Grundel wrote:The blaster venom squad is a joke It is EXTREMELY FRAGILE I played ~8 games before I removed it from my list. The codex has been out long enough now that people know to kill that unit FIRST, and they DO, with ease.

The source of their strength is you can have 6 of them in a 1500 list easily. Each of these is packing 12 poisoned shots and a 1/3 chance of ignoring whatever you shoot at it, Its a VERY powerful unit for its point cost. Its no more fragile than any other DE unit if you havent noticed.

The Grundel wrote: 3. I was talking about trueborn venom suicide squads, not troop squads.

It's not unusual to see 3 blasterborn venoms backed up with a further 6 blaster warrior venoms, I'd be highly surprised if your opponent could being down all 9 whilst being fired at with 108 poisoned shots a turn. You completely ignored my point, the trueborn venom units aren't any more vulnerable than every other unit, and they can lay down a LOT of damage for their point cost.

The Grundel wrote:Dashes article of winning with dark eldar is less what to take and how to use it, and more how to manipulate the rules for a win.

"Manipulating the rules for a win" is a bit of a harsh way of describing Dash's tactica. Its meant to be a competitive guide, and thats what it is. The "what to take" part is covered in the army list threads that he posted links for at the start of the tactica.

Harsh or not, it does focus mainly on loopholes and weird rules interactions. The rest is about cultivating a cutthroat mentality. It's still a damn useful read, in any case.

Drazhar is really really bad for his points. You're better off with a tooled-up Archon. But I understand if it's a fluff choice.

Best anti vehicle really is
2-3 units of trueborn with 3-4 blasters in Venoms

3 Ravagers (3 dark lances each)

small units of true born in venoms have the speed to get where you want and supplement your ravagers for anti tank. You can run 1 unit of incubi if you want but I prefer just 3 units of true born.

For anti tank and points efficicency ravagers are better then razorwings. Although Razorwings 4 large templates are pretty nice against large blocks of orks or other infantry the Ravagers 3 dark lances instead of 2 is better for anti tank and the ravager costs 30 points less.

I would start the army with 3 ravagers cookie cutter I know but its one of the staples for good anti tank. I have run 1 Razorwing Jetfighter and 2 ravagers and that works well too. Really depends if you feel you need the 4 large template missles and can lose a dark lance.

I actually don't like Incubi that much this edition. Your paper airplane transport gets shot down too often and you have to assault into cover too often. You can get an archon for grenades but that is expensive.

True born with blasters in Venoms are a better use of elite slots because you really need that anti tank.

Kalabite warriors should go in Venoms or Raiders with a blaster. Not worth running the foot dark lance squad with the points in increase.

I do not like reavers either to fragile. Prefer beasts more resilient and good in assault. Reavers just seem to die really quick when I tried them. Heatlances are a bit over rated.

As far as your list so far.

Have not tested Drazhar but he doesn't seem to be worth his points on paper.

Lelith also is a bit over costed and not as effective as she was last edition. Last editition I had a Lelith Wych cult and it was really fun and quite effective.

I prefer cheap hqs like haemoculi to give wyches feels no pain. shattershard is pretty good too.

Warriors need a transport. I like MSU so would run 5 with a blaster. Venoms provide your splinter cannons.

Wyches also need a transport. I run them with a haemoculi to give them feels no pain and haywire grenades for anti vehicles and take the agoniser.

Razorwing gets too expensive if you buy too many upgrades just run it with flicker shield. Nightfields aren't really worth it. If your at 36 to fire dark lances you going to get hit by the 48 inch auto cannons and las cannons nerfing range 36 to range 30 doesn't help because most are on vehicles and can just move 6 and fire.

ThePhish wrote:Some good reads for playing DE are Thor's tactica

Link, anyone?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Dark_Eldar_Tactica_Part_1

Amazing advices, ( continues reading :3 )