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we still don't know wich rules and how commanders generally work.

It may be just a set of guidelines that allow a wide range of models take part in KT battles and the ones previewed are just basic idea of commanders in the same way the KT boxes aren't the fully KT possiblities of some armies.

Quick example for marines we can start with a basic template and upon our choices the commander can be a psyker a chaplain or just a kind of captain like model.

Hanksingle wrote:
For just, uh, 10 monthly installments of $75 dollars, after an initial investment of just $130 dollars, you will be the proud owner of complete rules to the Kill Team game! And along the way, we'll sell you the same miniatures we always have, for the same price, but in slightly different boxes; we figure, at this point, you'll probably just buy things out of habit!

Call now!

So much in this thread is so spot on - I didn't want generals in my squad combat. I wanted squad combat. Hearing from AdTitanicus folk about how much they like the rules has been frustrating, as KT seems so tossed off and finance driven; I cannot imagine myself spending more money on this medium. Incredibly disappointing, so far.

You didn't want generals in your squad combat - the fact that this is an optional rule set should be entirely to your benefit.
Why would you complain about games workshop charging extra for something that you don't even want to play with?

I'm pretty sure Commanders are just going to be 2-3 datafaxes for each faction. Just like the core book they will be based on their 40K choices with maybe a bit more customization, but not a lot. I just want to see if they go full Necromunda and add things like Hangers-on, brutes and or pets. Will Kill Team just be a small version of 40K or will it truly become its own game...

 Chairman Aeon wrote:
Will Kill Team just be a small version of 40K or will it truly become its own game...

I feel like it is pretty obvious that Kill Team will replace 40k as GW's tentpole game. That is, skirmish games are replacing large battle games for the most part, plus it lets GW release things like Rogue Trader and have smaller, more interesting releases that don't make sense for a large game. It can tie together the broader lore and setting than a mass army game can. I think for a lot of gamers, Kill Team's smaller footprint, faster playing time, and fewer models is a better fit for them. It's just a better game for what GW wants to do, with the potential of a larger audience (especially the board game/miniature game hybrid crowd, which seems to single handedly be supporting Kickstarter).

And GW's level of support for the game is unprecedented. Yeah, so far it has largely been repackaging older models, but it has gotten more support than AoS 2.0. I mean, they just announced, what, a dozen new products today? It's been really successful too, with the core set still sold out and hard to find. I think that in the future, new factions like SoB will be designed with KT in mind, making KT an even smoother transition from 40k. Eventually, 40k and KT will essentially be equal partners, but I think that skirmish games are just more practical for a lot of people and it will eventually edge out 40k.

Can't say I agree. GW is a model company and thus they have a financial incentive to get you to buy as many models as possible. KT, where about a third of the model range literally can't be played, is counter-intuitive toward that.

The reason why KT is getting so much support is because they're playing the long game. I think GW has realized that the barrier-to-entry for 40k is too high, but they won't (or can't) just lower the prices, so they'll invest in a game mode that is cheap and easy to get into. This serves as a gateway for jumping into 40K at large.

Newbie sees 40K, likes what he sees but can't afford a 1000+ point army right off the bat. So he'll buy a squad or two instead and play KT, which gets his foot in the door. Once he's hooked he'll gradually start buying more infantry, then vehicles and monsters and eventually he's sucking down Imperial Knights while whining on Dakka about how useless his 6000 points of orks are.

 Lord Perversor wrote:
we still don't know wich rules and how commanders generally work.

It may be just a set of guidelines that allow a wide range of models take part in KT battles and the ones previewed are just basic idea of commanders in the same way the KT boxes aren't the fully KT possiblities of some armies.

Quick example for marines we can start with a basic template and upon our choices the commander can be a psyker a chaplain or just a kind of captain like model.

Except it can't be like this because of starter commander choice. You can't really downgrade Patriarch or Watch Master to anything lower ranking in their respective factions, they are already the top dog, no exceptions. If that was say Artemis for DW, fine, his model could be used for any rank, from sarge to captain, but only Masters have the Custode spear. Ditto for GSC, if that was smaller broodlord mini, it could be some sort of genestealer alpha, but there is only one Patriarch. Etc, etc, we will get just the datasheets, with zero out-of-sprue options, and that's it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Hopefully there will be some non-Primaris Marine characters.

Last time I checked DW Watch Master wasn't a Primaris marine. In fact, that's about the only DW model that can't be built a Primaris...

 BlaxicanX wrote:


The reason why KT is getting so much support is because they're playing the long game. I think GW has realized that the barrier-to-entry for 40k is too high, but they won't (or can't) just lower the prices, so they'll invest in a game mode that is cheap and easy to get into. This serves as a gateway for jumping into 40K at large.

Newbie sees 40K, likes what he sees but can't afford a 1000+ point army right off the bat. So he'll buy a squad or two instead and play KT, which gets his foot in the door. Once he's hooked he'll gradually start buying more infantry, then vehicles and monsters and eventually he's sucking down Imperial Knights while whining on Dakka about how useless his 6000 points of orks are.

I agree with this, but also I think it also serves two more related purposes:
- Existing players decide to try out new armies because they only need to buy one unit to get started in Kill Team...but eventually get tempted to add the other Kill Team units, and from there it's only a small step to deciding to do a full 40k army.
- Some people probably like the idea of building/painting a variety of different models from different factions in different colours schemes, rather than painting lots of models in a similar scheme to build one large themed army. Kill Team lets them do that. And a lot of kids or newcomers probably do this unintentionally anyway - buy what they like the look of from different factions, rather than considering the rules and army lists. I had stuff from too many factions when I was a kid, rather than trying to build a single themed army!

I'm assuming the associated points costs will vary quite a bit depending on the type of commander. Even in this first round of releases they range from a bit better than the regular trooper, to one model wreaking crews in power.

What I'd really like GW to release are some appropriate sized sleeves for the data cards and mission cards (I wouldn't mind a mission card binder to flip through).

I feel like no new commander models is a missed opportunity. On the other hand, I am,excited by wall of martyrs coming out. Probably grab 2 sets to finally get some trenchlines.

 Sqorgar wrote:
What I'd really like GW to release are some appropriate sized sleeves for the data cards and mission cards (I wouldn't mind a mission card binder to flip through).

I ended up just brushing a layer of varnish on the front of the character cards. Lets me reuse dry erase markers on them without any problems.

Depending on the continuing popularity of commanders I wouldn't be surprised if they did add some new figures via forge world at some point. Or new plastics when they get around to army updates. Why stop at just one blister pack per faction if they can add some new tactics cards too.




Reason for edit, dang auto correct.

 Irbis wrote:

 Lord Perversor wrote:
we still don't know wich rules and how commanders generally work.

It may be just a set of guidelines that allow a wide range of models take part in KT battles and the ones previewed are just basic idea of commanders in the same way the KT boxes aren't the fully KT possiblities of some armies.

Quick example for marines we can start with a basic template and upon our choices the commander can be a psyker a chaplain or just a kind of captain like model.

Except it can't be like this because of starter commander choice. You can't really downgrade Patriarch or Watch Master to anything lower ranking in their respective factions, they are already the top dog, no exceptions. If that was say Artemis for DW, fine, his model could be used for any rank, from sarge to captain, but only Masters have the Custode spear. Ditto for GSC, if that was smaller broodlord mini, it could be some sort of genestealer alpha, but there is only one Patriarch. Etc, etc, we will get just the datasheets, with zero out-of-sprue options, and that's it.

All i'm pointing it's that a lot of people is assuming there is only and only single choice of commander based in a single box. That assumption it's the same as claiming Tyranids KT can only be played with Genestealers because that's the only model sold in the Tyranid starter box.

Commanders in KT can have a wide range of options or abilities wich can be quite different from their 40k counterparts (something wich already happens with some abilities in KT) and all i'm saying is that those just those are an example model and their Datasheets and abilities can be nothing like their 40k counterparts.

The community article indicates that there are going to be 40 different commanders, which means that there are definitely going to be a lot more choices for your custom commander than the pre-ordained one that comes in the KT packaging. If a Watchmaster doesn't feel right for what you're putting together a Librarian will probably also be an available choice.

Based on the Commander rules in the Rogue Trader box you buy your Commander at Lvl 1 to lvl 4, then you can buy Commander abilities (at least for now the cost of abilities is from 5pts to 30pts). For an extreme example, the Gellerpox Commander Vulgrar Thricecursed costs 130pts at level 4, before you add Commander abilities! Extrapolating from this, GW will probably give a faction a choice of commanders each with appropriate standard wargear, and the base cost per level. Like a Lvl 1 Primaris Lieutenant might start at 50pts, but a Lvl 1 Librarian starts at 65pts because he also has psychic powers.

Did anyone else notice the new scatter terrain in the teaser images on the Warhammer Community article? There are fallen statues and columns that have sculpted bases much like other pieces of GW terrain. They also look different enough to not just be a conversion.

Imperialis scatter terrain would be much welcome!

drbored wrote:
Did anyone else notice the new scatter terrain in the teaser images on the Warhammer Community article? There are fallen statues and columns that have sculpted bases much like other pieces of GW terrain. They also look different enough to not just be a conversion.

Imperialis scatter terrain would be much welcome!

Agreed. GW has been doing great with terrain the past couple years, and so more is welcome. Speed Freaks looks to come with scatter terrain, there are now terrain upgrades for shadespire, it seems likely that there will be scatter terrain for imperials as well, to r3place the old barricades. Still waiting for that sector mechanicus drill though.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Still waiting for that sector mechanicus drill though.

So are my Orks!

LordShaft.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Still waiting for that sector mechanicus drill though.

What's that?

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Still waiting for that sector mechanicus drill though.

What's that?

It's a piece of art on one of the boxes it's never been seen (the mini) if it exists at all.

OrkPlayer137 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:


The reason why KT is getting so much support is because they're playing the long game. I think GW has realized that the barrier-to-entry for 40k is too high, but they won't (or can't) just lower the prices, so they'll invest in a game mode that is cheap and easy to get into. This serves as a gateway for jumping into 40K at large.

Newbie sees 40K, likes what he sees but can't afford a 1000+ point army right off the bat. So he'll buy a squad or two instead and play KT, which gets his foot in the door. Once he's hooked he'll gradually start buying more infantry, then vehicles and monsters and eventually he's sucking down Imperial Knights while whining on Dakka about how useless his 6000 points of orks are.

I agree with this, but also I think it also serves two more related purposes:
- Existing players decide to try out new armies because they only need to buy one unit to get started in Kill Team...but eventually get tempted to add the other Kill Team units, and from there it's only a small step to deciding to do a full 40k army.
- Some people probably like the idea of building/painting a variety of different models from different factions in different colours schemes, rather than painting lots of models in a similar scheme to build one large themed army. Kill Team lets them do that. And a lot of kids or newcomers probably do this unintentionally anyway - buy what they like the look of from different factions, rather than considering the rules and army lists. I had stuff from too many factions when I was a kid, rather than trying to build a single themed army!

We also need to consider why 40k is the size it is now. Before Apocalypse, the game was growing in scale anyway. In essence, as people were in the Hobby for longer, collections grew larger. And peeps want to at least have the opportunity to field their entire collection, even if it’s fairly rare.

So the game was rejigged and streamlined to allow for that, pushing up the average game size.

Where they previously went wrong was not offering anything on the original scale. Kill Team is seeking to address that, as is Warhammer Underworlds.

They’re both not just games, but game systems expressly designed to be small scale, and in the mainstream universe (as opposed to their predecessors Necromunda and Mordheim). This means there’s a very definite price ceiling.

Underworlds is the clearest expression here. Whilst there is some incentive to Chase The Cards, from what I’ve read online, it’s not a necessity. You can get involved for a mere £17.50. And for the full experience, that’s a reasonable £57.50 (core set and warband of your choice).

Kill Team? Bit more investment needed, whether you want just the rules and a Kill Team, or to be able to crack on by buying the £80 boxed set (I took this route, and the contents I’m very happy very happy with). Bundling in scenery with the Teams is a neat idea for those who aren’t established in the Hobby already (terrain plays a big role in this game, natch).

The Commanders expansion is a natural way to subtlety lift that price ceiling, without making it compulsory. Me, I’ll probably buy it if it gets decent reviews. For the moment I’m somewhere between ‘well, perhaps including them for some games’ and ‘uh oh.....I Fear I’ve caught a faint whiff of Herohammer on the wind’. Compare to the Kill Zones, I’m very happy to cough up £50 for those. Neat rules to add variety, new boards, and of course new terrain. I see nothing not to like about those - they add to the game, without fundamentally changing it.

But despite my skepticism about Commanders, it does make sense from GW’s point of view. After all, someone who intended solely to play Kill Team could easily end up with a small 40k army off the back of it.

 Lord Perversor wrote:
All i'm pointing it's that a lot of people is assuming there is only and only single choice of commander based in a single box. That assumption it's the same as claiming Tyranids KT can only be played with Genestealers because that's the only model sold in the Tyranid starter box.

Commanders in KT can have a wide range of options or abilities wich can be quite different from their 40k counterparts (something wich already happens with some abilities in KT) and all i'm saying is that those just those are an example model and their Datasheets and abilities can be nothing like their 40k counterparts.

You will maybe get several options but I am willing to bet they will be limited to what GW sells as HQ models. That is, say Deathwatch won't get half of SM character options, because these have left pad already molded on and cutting it off to replace it with DW one is obviously too difficult (I wish I was joking but left pad access was for real the test deciding if DW HQ gets wargear options of X Astartes model for 3 books now)

As for wide range of options, I wish you were right, but it's 99 to 1 the Primaris HQ models will all be mono-gear, if not all ETB minis that will get commander rules...

When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?

Kendo wrote:
When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?

I feel more like they wanted to get a ship vibe. Even though they're in space, GW has always tried to get that pirate voyage vibe with long coats and sabres and such. So it makes sense to put a dude, who could've been a quartermaster type character who probably handled produce and stuff, on the ship to have a fisherman style

I think the idea on the Screamer Gnasher(the guy with the cleaver and fish hooks) is that he was the ship's chef. Presumably Rogue Traders have access to all sorts of exotic food and drink, and sourcing fish would likely be quiet the delicacy in space. The chef, and maybe half his line cooks judging by all the faces on him, unfortunately got morphed together by the geller field breach, and now run around cleaving people and screeching horrifically.

Honestly it's just the right amount of campy for a Rogue Trader story.

He's a homage to Mordheim

Kendo wrote:
When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?

It feels the models weren't supposed to be nurgle at all in the first place. Guy with fish and tentacle has massive tzeenth vibes, other with claw is obviously slaaneshi, guy with screaming faces has literally nothing nurgle-y about him, zombies with metal skulls fit khorne more than nurgle, insects look more like random warp denizens, really, only flies have sorta-kinda nurgle look. Why they went with low effort nurgle "lol we just bypassed the barrier that worked for 10 millennia no problem" disease instead of making it combined effort of all 4 gods (perhaps something invented by Black Legion sorcerers, which would finally make Failbaddon look less like a total loser, a decade of desperate retcons notwithstanding) I have no idea...

Most Imperial ships are also massive, so it wouldn't surprise me if one of the bilges has its own body of water complete with mutated fish present.

 Irbis wrote:

Kendo wrote:
When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?

It feels the models weren't supposed to be nurgle at all in the first place. Guy with fish and tentacle has massive tzeenth vibes, other with claw is obviously slaaneshi, guy with screaming faces has literally nothing nurgle-y about him, zombies with metal skulls fit khorne more than nurgle, insects look more like random warp denizens, really, only flies have sorta-kinda nurgle look. Why they went with low effort nurgle "lol we just bypassed the barrier that worked for 10 millennia no problem" disease instead of making it combined effort of all 4 gods (perhaps something invented by Black Legion sorcerers, which would finally make Failbaddon look less like a total loser, a decade of desperate retcons notwithstanding) I have no idea...

It's possible that they were originally just meant to be generic chaos mutants. I'd have preferred that, there is really enough Nurgle stuff already. And the whole pox thing was stupid, simple technical malfunction in the Geller field would have been a sufficient explanation,

Kendo wrote:
When building my Rogue Trader Gellerpox models I noticed one of the big hulks was covered in fishhooks, with a fish on its belt, and had an arrow through it. Can’t imagine there are a lot of fish ponds in the bowels of an Imperial vessel. This model feels like it was originally designed for a different purpose and plunked into Rogue Trader instead. Anyone else get that feeling?

Makes sense to me. With a big pond, you have multiple sources of food that can be grown in the dark with just organic detritus plus the obvious benefit of a source of water including bottom feeders that live in a completely dark environment similar to the bottom of deep lakes and the oceans. Upper decks might get the water filtered and have access to off-ship foodstuffs but the lower deck menials would probably use that pond for everything.