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If I may, I would respectfully like to raise the subject of how background topics are moderated on DakkaDakka. This is not about starting trouble or anything like that but a real point I’d like to raise. There seems to be an unwritten rule that it is ok to “troll” and basically say anything disparaging you want about Space Marines but it is definitely not ok to do the same with the Tau.
For example:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/386998.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/385197.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/383307.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/380029.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/378198.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/369904.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/361942.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/361208.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/357699.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/357768.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/150/345467.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/331567.page

I find the reasons for these locks spurious and could be applied to almost any thread. I would argue that users should be able to make fun of any race they want. They are, after all, not real. Either way, there shouldn’t be a double standard: it’s all one big fictional background.

GW gives space marines special consideration, as such, so do the players. Only the players give negative consideration. This seems fair.

Fine, why should one particular faction be protected from criticism? It's just one part of the same story.

I agree with Kamikaze. Tau herre are more favorite than any other players.

For examples:

- Thread is open: "Why didn't the Empeor had an Empress?", totally not fluffwise or had anything to do with 40k official lore. But the thread go on, Emperor has been called from gay to pretty partying guy ( with hundreds of sons ). And that was ok. We open a thread "Are Tau pacifying Humans, and unlike this one it has something to do with lore and fluff ( DoW games and Courage and Honor novel as well as Deathwatch rule book. ) And the thread was closed because "it has nothing to do with official fluff." ???

- Thread was open "!0 Hammer Heads against 10 Leman Russ", and it was good. We decided in the end, civily of course, that 10 LR had no chance against 10 HH because basic LR is anti-infantry tank. But that with Vanquishers it would be a fair fight. Thread was open "10 Fire Warriors against 10 Caidans", and it started well. And it was shut down because it would "troll the people". Again ???

So it is ok when people rant the Imperium but totally unfair when people rant Tau? I am just saying that Tau player here do have more rights. They open totally non-related topic on the Emperor, it had run down to the end. We open a non-canon topic about Tau - we get banned. Even if we were civil in either one. And did I mentioned that this is only the problem with Tau threads. Many other threads explode ( like SoB vs Chaos or Space Marines vs. Tyranids ) and they go for days with any kind of involment or locking.
I have nothing against Tau, in fact most threads with Tau were civil ones ( well except those witch involve Tau tech ). I even started one nice thread to compare 2 fine warriors from both sides and I was nearly punished because of that, while the other thread with almost same settings ( only armor instead of infantry ) got running for days.

I wouldn't be surprised if this thread get closed also very soon... We are just implementing that mods should be neutral and not pick sides with anyone - not us, not Tau, not Orks, not Nids, not Chaos, not anyone.

As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

My suspicion is that the Tau threads get closed more often because they get brought up/trolled more often. I'd be willing to bet that the "Are Tau Racists?" thread gets brought up fairly often compared to "Are Dark Eldar Sadistic Bastards?" or "How is the Imperium similar to Nazi Germany?" Of the 12 threads the OP brought up, over half were focused on Tau to either discuss or troll them.

I think that the mods just want to nip the back-and-forth veiled insults and condecension in the bud, and that this occurs more often historically in the Tau threads (as opposed to other threads) for some weird unexplained reason.

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

djphranq wrote:

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

That's actually the point that KamikazeCanuck was making.

Threads hating on Space Marines/Imperial Guard are usually left alone unless there's excessive sniping or personal attacks.

Tau threads are occasionally closed within a few hours of getting heated.

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

That's actually the point that KamikazeCanuck was making.

Threads hating on Space Marines/Imperial Guard are usually left alone unless there's excessive sniping or personal attacks.

Tau threads are occasionally closed within a few hours of getting heated.

Quite the coincidence indeed. I know you're a big fluff-nut like me Kan and so I'm sure you've seen many a background thread go in crazy directions. Which is fine imo, it's all in good fun. If a Tau thread pops up though - you know it is not long for this world.

If a Tau thread pops up and isn't posted by a certain individual or given a trollbait title like "Tau are racist!", it should be okay.

But yeah. Tau threads usually aren't gonna last long, especially if someone brings up the railguns mean technological superiority issue.

Does anyone know why Tau get the (seemingly) inordinate amount of flaming/trolling/locking compared to Eldar/Chaos/Orks/Joekaro/Anything else? Are there just more Tau players or haters online or something?

Because the Tau don't have much background to work from, and what little there is conflicts with itself.

It's kind of like trying to have logical discussions about Sasquatch. It's not going to happen unless everyone goes in with that mindset.

Oh yes - because the moderators have nothing better to do than stalk the Background section, looking for Tau threads to close.....

Look, most of the time, we've responding to user alerts. If we click on an alert, and find ourselves in a Tau thread where we perceive trolling and/or flaming, we respond accordingly. Often, we aren't summoned until the thread is too contaminated to quickly triage, and the thread must be isolated before the contagion can spread.

Don't want Tau threads to be closed? Then everyone posting in them needs to converse like reasonable adults...even if they aren't. If you can't discuss the ever-so-important topic of Tau society or technology reasonably, then for your own good, stay out of those threads.

Janthkin wrote:Oh yes - because the moderators have nothing better to do than stalk the Background section, looking for Tau threads to close.....

Look, most of the time, we've responding to user alerts. If we click on an alert, and find ourselves in a Tau thread where we perceive trolling and/or flaming, we respond accordingly. Often, we aren't summoned until the thread is too contaminated to quickly triage, and the thread must be isolated before the contagion can spread.

Don't want Tau threads to be closed? Then everyone posting in them needs to converse like reasonable adults...even if they aren't. If you can't discuss the ever-so-important topic of Tau society or technology reasonably, then for your own good, stay out of those threads.

Simplest answer: report the instigator?

Kanluwen wrote:Simplest answer: report the instigator?

That'd be a good idea, yes. And, more importantly, if you think someone is trolling you...DON'T RESPOND.

Can we also get a mandatory statement of "Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean it's trolling"?

It makes so much more of an impact if it's in red, Janthkin!

Tau threads usually end up closed after the ugly spectre of communism rears its head, and the discussion ends up being about the merits of various economic systems.

Monster Rain wrote:Tau threads usually end up closed after the ugly spectre of communism rears its head, and the discussion ends up being about the merits of various economic systems.

What? Threads closed when they go off-topic!

I call conspiracy! Probably an evil Tau, communist conspiracy!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Can we also get a mandatory statement of "Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean it's trolling"?

It makes so much more of an impact if it's in red, Janthkin!

Honestly, so long as people aren't launching into flamewars, and are making use of the "Alert" button, I don't care if they think they're being trolled. The mods are pretty good at sorting out false positives, and that's often the best way to nip problems early, before they destroy whole threads.

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

That's actually the point that KamikazeCanuck was making.

Threads hating on Space Marines/Imperial Guard are usually left alone unless there's excessive sniping or personal attacks.

Tau threads are occasionally closed within a few hours of getting heated.

I thought Kami's point was that he felt the Tau threads were unfairly treated or targeted. I'm thinking that isn't the case. I'm saying that it just so happens that topics contained 'Tau' stuff... I'm thinking the closures are valid closures for the reasons given by the Mod (well maybe all but one). I think it is just rotten luck that they are 'Tau' related topics.

djphranq wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

That's actually the point that KamikazeCanuck was making.

Threads hating on Space Marines/Imperial Guard are usually left alone unless there's excessive sniping or personal attacks.

Tau threads are occasionally closed within a few hours of getting heated.

I thought Kami's point was that he felt the Tau threads were unfairly treated or targeted. I'm thinking that isn't the case. I'm saying that it just so happens that topics contained 'Tau' stuff... I'm thinking the closures are valid closures for the reasons given by the Mod (well maybe all but one). I think it is just rotten luck that they are 'Tau' related topics.

No, his point is that Tau threads are closed for far less than it takes to get a Guard/Marine thread closed.

Whether people are reporting it or Kilkrazy is shutting them down because they, rightfully so, should be shut down since the questions have been asked repeatedly, or whatever reason--Tau threads have a far smaller threshold for closure than threads slinging around "Ultrasmurfs" or the Draigo crap.

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

That's actually the point that KamikazeCanuck was making.

Threads hating on Space Marines/Imperial Guard are usually left alone unless there's excessive sniping or personal attacks.

Tau threads are occasionally closed within a few hours of getting heated.

I thought Kami's point was that he felt the Tau threads were unfairly treated or targeted. I'm thinking that isn't the case. I'm saying that it just so happens that topics contained 'Tau' stuff... I'm thinking the closures are valid closures for the reasons given by the Mod (well maybe all but one). I think it is just rotten luck that they are 'Tau' related topics.

No, his point is that Tau threads are closed for far less than it takes to get a Guard/Marine thread closed.

Whether people are reporting it or Kilkrazy is shutting them down because they, rightfully so, should be shut down since the questions have been asked repeatedly, or whatever reason--Tau threads have a far smaller threshold for closure than threads slinging around "Ultrasmurfs" or the Draigo crap.

Ah... okay... I still don't think its the case. Then again there is a lot a person could miss regardless of being on here a good portion of the day.

There are certain people that get away with certain things on certain forums. More at 11.

Worglock wrote:There are certain people that get away with certain things on certain forums. More at 11.

Are you certain?

djphranq wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

djphranq wrote:

aerethan wrote:As a non 40k player, Tau are the only ones I like, so yes they get special treatment.

I don't imagine that WFB forums have this problem as we tend to not have as many children who play.

Haha nice.


I think its just coincedence that a lot of those topics that were closed were Tau related.

That's actually the point that KamikazeCanuck was making.

Threads hating on Space Marines/Imperial Guard are usually left alone unless there's excessive sniping or personal attacks.

Tau threads are occasionally closed within a few hours of getting heated.

I thought Kami's point was that he felt the Tau threads were unfairly treated or targeted. I'm thinking that isn't the case. I'm saying that it just so happens that topics contained 'Tau' stuff... I'm thinking the closures are valid closures for the reasons given by the Mod (well maybe all but one). I think it is just rotten luck that they are 'Tau' related topics.

No, his point is that Tau threads are closed for far less than it takes to get a Guard/Marine thread closed.

Whether people are reporting it or Kilkrazy is shutting them down because they, rightfully so, should be shut down since the questions have been asked repeatedly, or whatever reason--Tau threads have a far smaller threshold for closure than threads slinging around "Ultrasmurfs" or the Draigo crap.

Ah... okay... I still don't think its the case. Then again there is a lot a person could miss regardless of being on here a good portion of the day.

Yes, that was my point. A thread about background is almost never closed for any reason unless it is Tau related then it's closed for any reason. Even then, I don't really care. It's when official triangle warnings are given out for saying something about the Tau that I must roll my eyes and ask what the hell is going on here.

djphranq wrote:

Worglock wrote:There are certain people that get away with certain things on certain forums. More at 11.

Are you certain?

11:18, after sports and weather.

Also, OP, you may want to look up Cheesecat. Something about a Radiant Tomorrow.

As much as it pains me to admit it, Kam is right. Like him, I am a fluffaholic, and it seems like Tau related threads already have two strikes against them. I saw one recently that was closed before anything untoward had happened. It seems like there is a protective bias towards Tau. (I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone in specific.)

As much as it pains me to hear Jim say I'm right...well there you go. Basically there's only like a dozen hardcore fluff-nuts on dakkadakka background section (which includes the mods) and it's hard to explain to those who don't frequent that area of the forums what I'm talking about. Especially when, I'll admit, it sounds unbelievable.

Then the best solution is to start policing it better ourselves, and to encourage a better level of discussion.

Threads that start off on a bad foot shouldn't be allowed to fester and stink up the joint. Threads where there's not enough information to reasonably make any kind of conclusion should be prefaced with "speculation" in there somewhere.

It's on us to make sure it doesn't get to the point of locking.

Regardless, the standard for lockings and warnings should be the same across the board no matter what imaginary people they are about.

I don't think there's a different standard being applied to threads about Tau or the Imperium.

I think there's two problems with Tau threads:

1) Tau are really poorly fleshed out at this point. So, Tau fans tend to exaggerate what the Tau Empire can do. And, many of the non-Tau fans simply dismiss them as totally insignificant. So, there's not much debate or discussion.

2) There are a few outspoken Tau haters. And, there are a few Tau fanboys. So, Tau threads on this board tend to take a very quick turn for the worse.

Conversely, the Imperium has a ton of background, so debates are actually possible. Additionally, the Imperium fans tend to be able to ignore the trolls.

Personally, I avoid Tau threads because I know they'll quickly devolve into flaming followed by a lock.