Is DakkaDakka going down hill?

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**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

insaniak wrote:
The thing is, either approach gets complaints. If we leave it alone, people complain that nothing was done about it. If we delete it, people complain that we're power-hungry maniacs who go around deleting people's posts.

Yeah, and? Suck it up! Why don't you just give everyone what they want constantly? It's not like it's that hard.

**Monster Rain**

Augustus wrote:Anyone else noting the irony of a thread about dakka going down hill,

On Dakka

Is that all there is left to talk about, 13 pages worth?

I feel I have lent credence to the ironic self fulfilling prophecy and absurd notion by even posting here.

Considering the poll results seem to cast into doubt that there's a problem at all, I wouldn't worry about it.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
insaniak wrote:
The thing is, either approach gets complaints. If we leave it alone, people complain that nothing was done about it. If we delete it, people complain that we're power-hungry maniacs who go around deleting people's posts.

Yeah, and? Suck it up! Why don't you just give everyone what they want constantly? It's not like it's that hard.

What you did there. I see it.

**warboss**

Heffling wrote:Warboss,

Thank you for providing an example of trolling and personal attacks in a thread about the quality dropping on Dakka. It's nice to see the drop in quality in action.

i'm sure you've witnessed alot of changes in your venerable tenure of FOUR MONTHS here at dakka. you may have even witnessed the changing of a single season in that time!

dash has referred to wanting a leadership role in any tactics forum changes a half dozen times. while i think he adds plenty of valuable insight to dakkadakka, i don't think he'd be a good choice for that kind of position. if addressing a part of someone's post that is repeated several times in two threads and refuting their claims with their own words and actions is offensive to you, you may want to reconsider the whole internet discussion thing.

**Da Boss**

The mods do a pretty good job I think. I've seen far worse. There are a couple I think are over zealous sometimes, but in fairness, they do dedicate their time to a totally thankless task.

**BloodThirSTAR**

Kilkrazy wrote:Post counts are a useful tool for moderators. They help identify factors about users, such as who is a strong contributor to the site, and other things.

It might be possible to turn them off except for moderators.

I would point out though, that we have a rule against +1 posts, and a rapid deployment Red Triangle for zapping them. If moderators don't get them all, that is because we don't see them all.

Post count can encourage people to make thoughtless posts to boost their count. Personally I think we would be better off if this was turned off. It's not hard to identify regulars who make a substantial contribution here.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

May just be me, but to me it seems since the start of this year dakka started going down hill with the same old threads posted over and over, which lead to my withdrawal to the DCM forums unless something out here caught my eye. Then I lost my DCM status and couldn't renew (times are hard) and started browsing dakka normally and the posting quality seemed to be getting worse and low and behold the same old threads in the sections I frequented, Fluff and Background Areas.

At first I attributed it to the summer months so I left, now I'm back to lurking and its still pretty much the same, only I've ceased to bother trying to help keep repeat threads down.

P&M and the like are about the same I guess, but like I saw mentioned earlier if you aren't painting Golden Daemon quality you shouldn't even bother posting.

**Kilkrazy**

Can I just emphasise that I am not pro post counts, I am pro moderators being able to see post counts because it honestly, genuinely, truthfully does add to the useful information about a user's behaviour.

If Legoburner wanted he could just turn it off for ordinary users, tell you all it was gone, and display it secretly for the moderators.

Of course army rank tracks would have to be switched off too.

**Manchu**

Hey Stynier. Not everything is bad. I started some Night Lords, among other things. And check out the awesome threads that have been put up in Tactics in the last two days. Also, we've got cooler forum games over in SurvivorGames than ever.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

Manchu, fallen to Chaos and I didn't get to witness it? I'll check your stuff out, and maybe I'll get in on some of those games, they were always fun.

**Hellfury**

BloodThirSTAR wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:Post counts are a useful tool for moderators. They help identify factors about users, such as who is a strong contributor to the site, and other things.

It might be possible to turn them off except for moderators.

I would point out though, that we have a rule against +1 posts, and a rapid deployment Red Triangle for zapping them. If moderators don't get them all, that is because we don't see them all.

Post count can encourage people to make thoughtless posts to boost their count. Personally I think we would be better off if this was turned off. It's not hard to identify regulars who make a substantial contribution here.

As someone who has 11K+ posts, I would like to say I completely agree.

When mods and other users start making self congratulatory posts about how they have been here for X years in order to celebrate the 'achievement' of 20k+ posts where the majority of which are derived from posting in the WAR forum, it becomes apparent that post counts are useless and self aggrandizing.

Seriously wasted bandwidth spent on that equally worthless bit of information Called post count.

There are already army profile titles under the usernames to denote some idea of 'rank' related to post count, the actual post count then becomes entirely redundant and unnecessary.

Of course they wont go away though, since this form of 'rank' has been used on this and every other site for as long as forums existed. The whole post count bit should still be canned though.

**Augustus**

Monster Rain wrote:
Augustus wrote:Anyone else noting the irony of a thread about dakka going down hill,

On Dakka

Is that all there is left to talk about, 13 pages worth?

I feel I have lent credence to the ironic self fulfilling prophecy and absurd notion by even posting here.

Considering the poll results seem to cast into doubt that there's a problem at all, I wouldn't worry about it.

Indeed, thank you for the perspective, on to bigger and better.

**Dashofpepper**

warboss wrote:Waaaahh...

Yeah um...that's not my blog. I don't have a blog. That's Danny Internets' blog, and I occasionally submit articles to him (per his request) to spruce up his website.

**WarOne**

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:Many of the olde time users have expressed that dakka is worsening.

I feel that its different.

Its much bigger, more easy to use, more pointless OT and ridiculous question posts.

My only disappointment is that the regular users are not more proactive in pointing out the error of the ways of the 'bad' posters. That doesn't mean flame them. It is pointing out the way things are normally done. It used to be a big, big part of dakka and I do miss it.

I think I like the perspective said here by Waaagh_Gonads more than any other post over the last three pages.

**fullheadofhair**

Dashofpepper wrote:
warboss wrote:Waaaahh...

Yeah um...that's not my blog. I don't have a blog. That's Danny Internets' blog, and I occasionally submit articles to him (per his request) to spruce up his website.

except "waaaaaah" perfectly described one of those so called articles.

**Ostrakon**

This site is a cesspit of hatred and lies.

It seems the majoirty of posters are either flagrant anti-GW trolls, borderline illiterate, or narcissistic reactionaries who can't handle criticism. Plus there's obvious favoritism towards those who are willing to suck proverbial mod genitals, and a general consensus that style matters more than substance. Any sort of reasonable, logical argument is stifled immediately by the masses if it contradicts the preexisting narratives ever-present on Dakka:

- GW is worse than the devil and Hitler combined
- Tournament players rape kittens with their poorly-painted, modeled-for-advantage miniatures
- Everyone is a Super Special Snowflake who are not only entitled to their own opinions, but also their own facts (unless a mod disagrees with them, in which case it is perfectly acceptable to make a disparaging post before locking a thread to eliminate any possibility of dialogue)
- Only positive criticism is constructive criticism

I rarely post here anymore. The only thing the site is good for are the painting galleries, YMDC, and various news bits.

**fullheadofhair**

Ostrakon wrote:This site is a cesspit of hatred and lies.

It seems the majoirty of posters are either flagrant anti-GW trolls, borderline illiterate, or narcissistic reactionaries who can't handle criticism. Plus there's obvious favoritism towards those who are willing to suck proverbial mod genitals, and a general consensus that style matters more than substance. Any sort of reasonable, logical argument is stifled immediately by the masses if it contradicts the preexisting narratives ever-present on Dakka:

- GW is worse than the devil and Hitler combined
- Tournament players rape kittens with their poorly-painted, modeled-for-advantage miniatures
- Everyone is a Super Special Snowflake who are not only entitled to their own opinions, but also their own facts (unless a mod disagrees with them, in which case it is perfectly acceptable to make a disparaging post before locking a thread to eliminate any possibility of dialogue)
- Only positive criticism is constructive criticism

I rarely post here anymore. The only thing the site is good for are the painting galleries, YMDC, and various news bits.

"either" - mmmh I think you under-estimate and don't appreciate people's efforts and abilities to suck in many areas at the same time.

I have never understood the problem that people have with tournie players. I just don't get that. I don't play in tournies as it isn't my environment but I have yet to understand why people who go to tournie object to getting seal clubbed - you know what you are getting into.

**olympia**

Some of the most prolific posters, I would wager, are also the most prone to hit the "report post" button. Surely the mods must have the statistics on users who report the most posts. Perhaps some sort of counseling forum could be made available to these sensitive souls.

**H.B.M.C.**

fullheadofhair wrote:I have never understood the problem that people have with tournie players.

It's probably my fault, what with all the "Dakka Dakka Casual Gamer Mafia" stuff I posted. It was meant as a joke - a bit of intentionally ironic absurdest humour - but I'm sure some people took me as serious and, worse, agreed with what I was saying.

**Phototoxin**

I don't see the issue. The place seems friendlier than whineseer and has more active users than bell of vague articles. Maybe an incentive medal reward type thing for people who contribute articles?

There could be monthly competitions for a P&M challenge, reviews, tutorials, tacticas etc, users could vote on them as well. It would be a sort of peer review.

Perhaps remove post counts from public view (but for example you could see your own in your profile) but keep the titles as they are just a vague estimate of how long you've been here.

**OldPeculiar**

Low post count/long service -- might be a sock puppet, investigate further -- Ah! he is basically a modeller and has posted a lot in the gallery, but he isn't interested in everyday use.

Yay! I'm a sock puppet

Although I never did get my previous post count transferred over from the old boards...... Work would be the primary reason for reduced post count. Maybe If I change the colour settings so it's a bit less obvious....

Actually I sometimes find it difficult to who some of the regular contributors are - particularly when they change avatars, it's always easier to track pictures rather than names

Dakka has had ups and downs for years, many of the current problem are more to do with where 40K is at the moment rather than Dakka itself. News and rumors for example has gone downhill in part due to GW's current policy on news. It leaves huge threads of speculation every occasional tidbit. Take the DE thread, I’m interested in the new DE but I lack the will to read through that monster.

**BloodThirSTAR**

The one forum I dislike is YMDC. I can't believe some of what I read there. It's horrible stuff. They need a knowledgable moderator to get that one back on track.

**Ordo Dakka**

BloodThirSTAR wrote:The one forum I dislike is YMDC. I can't believe some of what I read there. It's horrible stuff. They need a knowledgable moderator to get that one back on track.

Actually GWAR and co. are pretty damn knowledgeable...

**Mr Mystery**

Oh, and if you want an example of piss-poor moderation, try 40kforums back when Wardenhammer was about. If you posted anything he didn't agree with, he'd have a go at you on the thread, and get quite flamey. If you pointed out mistakes/mistruths in his posts, he'd go back and edit his, then claim he said nothing of the kind.

Oh, and don't forget that whilst he was free to rip into which ever religion he chose, the second someone pointed out that not only was his 'wicca' a load of cobblers (apparently based on ancient Druidic texts, which is a good trick seeing as they didn't have a written language) but also he was extremely hypocritical, instant bannage on account of him being a knob-jockey.

That people, is power tripping!

**Waaagh_Gonads**

olympia wrote:Some of the most prolific posters, I would wager, are also the most prone to hit the "report post" button. Surely the mods must have the statistics on users who report the most posts. Perhaps some sort of counseling forum could be made available to these sensitive souls.

There is some truth in that.
However it may be that they are using a larger part of the forum than 'regular posting' users and are finding where problem posts are.

However the more prolific posters also generate a good percentage of the reports from other users.

Most astonishingly the people who most often shout loudest in threads like this one (as has been said earlier a thread like this pops up every few months) are often the ones who have the biggest user case files, and generate a largenumber of reports against them.

To be honest I want robust discussion. I think it is also alright to not want to give a big hug to every dakka user. It is also to be expected that as new users arrive (and dakka has been, for the last year or so the fastest growing wargaming website in terms of true user numbers) there will be the same posts that appeared back when I joined in 2000 and then reappeared every few months ever since. Which is why I often don't reply to them unles sthere is something profound or the rules/background changes have put a new perspective on things. Also why I do 90+% of my posting in the DCM mosh pit where despite being able to discuss anything except users who don't have access to the forum we end up discussing little man-dollies.

I love this site.

**Primarch**

Dashofpepper wrote:
Heffling wrote:

I am also of the opinion that any posts that meet the following criteria, as determined by a moderator, should warrant the poster getting an immediate one week (or longer for multiple offenses) suspension:

1) Personal Attacks
2) Implying the author of or respondant to a post is lacks intelligence
3) Inference that their idea lacks intelligence
4) Obvious attempts at trolling or inciting negative emotional responses

If only. =p

My only real beef with the moderator team is that when you report a personal attack, it doesn't get deleted or modded out, they just add a post that says, "Modquisition now on" or "Cool it with the personal attacks." So that personal attack sits there, libel or slander that it may be. I probably have people jumping on me as often as anyone else here does (or more) and from posting trends, I can see when someone has been suspended or banned (including myself from time to time).

When someone writes, "Dash, everything you write is drivel, go back to your lame life and stop polluting the internet," my instinctive reply is, "Amazing contribution you're making to Dakka yourself there. I would encourage you to stop posting until you have something useful to say. FYI, I'm not holding my breath, I'm not expecting much."

Typically, I report the post. 50% of the time, a moderator posts "Moderation now on, cut the personal attacks" or something, and that's it. 30% of the time, a moderator messages me and says, "It wasn't that bad" and that's it. 15% of the time, nothing happens. 5% of the time, the offending post is edited out and the personal attacks attacks are removed.

Its pretty damn hard to NOT respond to someone calling you out specifically and attacking you. It would be easier if moderators removed offending content instead of simply saying, "Moderation on now." 100% of the posts that I write that people take offense to are in response to a personal attack. If personal attacks were removed and not just noted....posts that I write that are potentially offensive would disappear. Seriously. If someone punches me below the belt, I'm going to stomp on their head until they are dead. Here on Dakka, where the fights are verbal, I'm expected to not retaliate....but the instigation isn't removed, just noted.

I'd be a happy camper if that policy changed. Hell, me being a moderator would *also* make me a very easy to get along with kind of guy. I wouldn't ever have to be acidic with someone, because the personal attacks I'm responding to would just get deleted as inappropriate. Then I could freely go back to bringing content to Dakka without fear of my name getting dragged through the mud, my efforts denigrated, and people calling me names because I could just zap out that crap.

Dude, have you checked your signature? I mean, that thread should have been DELETED the instant you posted it. Doesn't matter who is wrong and who is right. You are attacking a whole community in that thread and Dakka is letting you do it. If I were to sling a personal attack or insult at you and it got deleted, I think my head might explode from the level of hypocrisy shown....

Clay

**Heffling**

warboss wrote:
Heffling wrote:Warboss,

Thank you for providing an example of trolling and personal attacks in a thread about the quality dropping on Dakka. It's nice to see the drop in quality in action.

i'm sure you've witnessed alot of changes in your venerable tenure of FOUR MONTHS here at dakka. you may have even witnessed the changing of a single season in that time!

dash has referred to wanting a leadership role in any tactics forum changes a half dozen times. while i think he adds plenty of valuable insight to dakkadakka, i don't think he'd be a good choice for that kind of position. if addressing a part of someone's post that is repeated several times in two threads and refuting their claims with their own words and actions is offensive to you, you may want to reconsider the whole internet discussion thing.

Firstly, I don't think that someone should be judged on length of tenure, but rather on the quality and content of their posting. Dismissing someone because they have only been a member here for four months is elitist and will only serve to chase off new membership. In the long run, this type of attitude will contribute to the death of Dakka.

Secondly, I in no way, state, or form indicated my approval or support for Dashofpepper to become a moderator here.

Thirdly, I am not offended by your quoting Dashofpepper. What I am offended by is the glaring attempt to drag the posting here off-topic in order to enact a personal attack against someone. The topic of discussion in this post is supposed to be the Quality of Dakka Dakka. I don't see how your post adds to that discussion, other than as supporting evidence of a loss of quality at Dakka.

In the course of my life, I try to practice the Three R's.

1) Responsibility for my actions.
2) Regard for others.
3) Respect for myself.

I have enough respect for myself and my experiences in life to feel that I can contribute to a discussion about the Quality of posting on Dakka. You may disagree with this, and are certainly welcome to do so, but it should be because I am making a flawed arguement or statement. It should not be because you wanted to start a personal crusade against someone with the point of inciting negative emotions and a response back to you.

I always take responsibility for my actions, and if I state something here that is incorrect, correct me. I want to improve myself, and I can't if I do something wrong and don't know about it.

I also have enough regard for others to want to improve the experience they will have here at Dakka, which this thread can be an excellent tool for doing so.

Do you feel that you meet the Three R's of being an adult?

**warspawned**

Well I'm new to posting itself and have lurked around many Forums, on and off, for a while now. I know I'm not particularly qualified to answer the OP's topic but it seems to me that the more people you get the more opinions vary and the more people's attitudes to the hobby itself vary as well. Personally speaking I'm quite an enigma in that I don't take my gaming seriously and yet I love creating my own rules, background and fiction with all the seriousness of a child at play (if that makes any kind of sense) as it's been a habit since I was a wee-boy...

I love lurking the P&M blogs as there's some very exciting and inspirational work out there which I feel, in some way, improves the hobby as a whole...yet don't feel the need to comment on absolutely everything as I often find my own opinion has been well voiced by others - just seeing it is enough for me...

As a noob member I can say that it's already helped to broaden my mind to the many ideas/thoughts/feelings about the hobby in general and I'm grateful for that - no matter how much I agree/disagree with others.

I think people can, and will always, disaprove of an idea/concept anyone has to offer & as for personal attacks I wouldn't take them that seriously if someone called me a

git who lacked intelligence. I'll never meet them and I don't care - it won't hurt my ego - much

(if one was to be positive about such things they'd simply build character). However I recognise that many users are of a certain 'hobby' age and may not 'know' as much about the hobby as others - but that's what we're here for - to help others, even ourselves.

When all is said and done (or not said and not done) this is a space for help/application/conjecture about little toy soldiers with a fictional background - so anything goes...

I'm not sure this has helped one iota...

**Cannerus_The_Unbearable**

You're pretty much useless warspawned. Go back to whatever ass crack in the internet you climbed out of and leave the real posting to us.

I think the elitism is part of being in a nerdy hobby. When I was managing a comic store I got to see in nearly every game, every comic discussion or anything else we had going on. I can't understand why when people are discussing tournament formats some argue "that just screws the good players!" when, in reality, aren't the "good players" the ones who win? That's assuming everyone knows the rules to begin with, but it's an aside. I liken the call to elitism like the call to Chaos. It may seem empowering, but get over yourself. At the very least, you're a human like the rest of us and I think we can all meet on that point.

**Chibi Bodge-Battle**

olympia wrote:Some of the most prolific posters, I would wager, are also the most prone to hit the "report post" button. Surely the mods must have the statistics on users who report the most posts. Perhaps some sort of counseling forum could be made available to these sensitive souls.

I thought the advise from the mods was to hit the panic button.
So you are saying that we should head their advice so we may be considered over-sensitive snitches?

There is nothing like consistency to help things run smoothly.

**Frazzled**

They are not necessarily related.