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Latest Version of the PDF is up.

Updates include:
- Khorne Bezerkers - Cost 23pts and gain Counter-attack.
- Noise Marines - Cost 23pts and gain Night Vision. Blast Masters cost 30pts.
- Chaos Champion removed.
- Warband specific rules (e.g. Dark Apostle, Shadowlord, Chaos Master etc.) available on any unnamed HQ choice (i.e. Sorcerers).
- I think that's about it.

As ever, all feedback is welcome. Thanks guys!

I'm liking this new version, especially the lifted restrictions on Warband rules, and the tweaking of cult units.

I may be playing a game (or several) using this tomorrow, although I've been itching to try my Dark Eldar.

If I do end up playing CSM, I'll post a battle report.

(Oh God! I need to make a list now!)

If I may say, JD, I would reword all of your weapon upgrade options to like, 'replace boltgun with X' because as it is (an this is where i noticed it) raptors still get the two CC weapons AND the meltagun or whatever special weapon they take. Granted, that's one or two attacks a squad, but all the other codices do it, so it must be for a good reason, right?

i kinda liked the chaos champ. any way getting a list together in using the books.

Still loving the codex dave, hopign to play test it in the next few weeks.

One small quibble, more a personal gripe than anything else.

I'm tryign to write a nice fluffy IW list (much easier now that i can field bassies and an ACTUAL Warsmith BTW). It would be nice if there was an option for a Lord to have some sort of long range weapon.

My reasoning being that i see a Warsmith as someone who would be at the back directing the battle and taking shots with something nasty. For example. I played an apoc game and my "Warsmith" was a MoTF on a bike with a conversion beamer. Very fluffy as he dashed around fixing immobilised tanks and firing of S10 Ap1 small blastt shots from the Beamer. Great fun.

I have managed to point up a half-decent Warsmith who is nicely tough but he is just lacking the long range punch.

Maybe an option to let a Chaos Lord (or Termie Lord) carry a Warp Cannon or something? I woudl say make a long range option an add-on for Warsmith (example: Conversion Beamer/Warp Cannon/some new gun for 20 points) but then that's robbing other warbands of the option as well.






Just playing around: Iron Warriors Anti-Tank Spam list


HQ:
Chaos Lord - Icon of the Iron Warriors, Warsmith, Chaos Armour, Daemonic Toughness, Daemon Weapon (a hammer, obviously)

TROOPS:
8 Berzerkers - Rhino (Open Topped)
10 CSM - 2 meltas, Rhino (Combi melta)
10 CSM - 2 meltas, Rhino (Combi melta)
10 CSM - 2 meltas, Rhino (Combi melta)

ELITES:
Dreadnought - Siege Hammer, MoN

HEAVY SUPPORT:
5 Havocs - 4 Lascannons
5 Havocs - 4 Lascannons
Basilisk

1499 points




Can the Warsmith ride with the 'Zerkers?

dont see any reason why not allthough it destroys the sacred no you have goin on there,

Really? I thought that the sacred number was just the number of 'zerkers. Didn't realise it would include any IC's attached to the squad as well.

And i forgot to include my free skull champion in the list!




edit: just checked, the unit entry just says...

...if the squad numbers 8-models then a model may instead be upgraded to a Skull Champion for free.

That is when you pay the points for ther Berzerkers and the IC is then attached at deployment, which would suggest that any ICs added to the squad afterwards would not make a difference to the sacred number bonus.

Could we get a ruling on this Dave?





Also, quick question on Rubric Marines. The basic unit is 5 Rubrics but you then HAVE to spend 25 points getting the Asp. Sorcerer. Why not just make the basic unit 4 Rubrics + Sorcerer with a cost of 140. Then have the option to add 10 more rubrics at 23 points each. Then if the unit number exactly 9 they coudl get (for example) another psyker power for free rather than just reducing the cost of the scorerer.

nonono itd be fine for you to have the 9 man squad, im just a fluff junkie is all

Praxiss wrote:Still loving the codex dave, hopign to play test it in the next few weeks.

One small quibble, more a personal gripe than anything else.

I'm tryign to write a nice fluffy IW list (much easier now that i can field bassies and an ACTUAL Warsmith BTW). It would be nice if there was an option for a Lord to have some sort of long range weapon.

My reasoning being that i see a Warsmith as someone who would be at the back directing the battle and taking shots with something nasty. For example. I played an apoc game and my "Warsmith" was a MoTF on a bike with a conversion beamer. Very fluffy as he dashed around fixing immobilised tanks and firing of S10 Ap1 small blastt shots from the Beamer. Great fun.

I have managed to point up a half-decent Warsmith who is nicely tough but he is just lacking the long range punch.

Maybe an option to let a Chaos Lord (or Termie Lord) carry a Warp Cannon or something? I woudl say make a long range option an add-on for Warsmith (example: Conversion Beamer/Warp Cannon/some new gun for 20 points) but then that's robbing other warbands of the option as well.






Just playing around: Iron Warriors Anti-Tank Spam list


HQ:
Chaos Lord - Icon of the Iron Warriors, Warsmith, Chaos Armour, Daemonic Toughness, Daemon Weapon (a hammer, obviously)

TROOPS:
8 Berzerkers - Rhino (Open Topped)
10 CSM - 2 meltas, Rhino (Combi melta)
10 CSM - 2 meltas, Rhino (Combi melta)
10 CSM - 2 meltas, Rhino (Combi melta)

ELITES:
Dreadnought - Siege Hammer, MoN

HEAVY SUPPORT:
5 Havocs - 4 Lascannons
5 Havocs - 4 Lascannons
Basilisk

1499 points




Can the Warsmith ride with the 'Zerkers?

Cheers man, appreciate the compliment and I hope you do get round to (and enjoy) playtesting it!
Solid list too.

Regarding the Heavy Weapon for the Lord; it's an idea and does have potential but personally I'm not sold on it tbh. I'd imagine a Warsmith (like any Chaos leader really) would be at the front; smashing the opponents face in with a power/chain fist and whacking great hammer; Storm of Iron (which I'm sure you've read) seems to support this IMHO. For ranged power a combi-weapon could fit the bill somewhat I guess. Also, as you said I'm reluctant to be "robbing other warbands of the option as well."
Apologies man, it's a nice idea and I really did consider it (e.g. Same gun options as termies), but I can't see it being added tbh.


Regarding the 'zerkers and their sacred number, I'll answer it with another (rhetorical) question.
If a casualty was taken which reduced the squad to 7-men, would the skull champion then disappear? Basically, as it's before deployment that the sacred number has an effect, it won't change in-game, so yeah you can add as many characters as you want!

Personally, I feel reducing the cost of the Sorcerer is more balanced (and familiar) than adding another psychic power, whilst it also prevents the squad from being 230+pts at all times. Does that understanding make sense?

Cheers for the feedback Praxiss, much appreciated man.


I'm thinking about wrapping this up soon and having a final version of the PDF up; which would then go on other sites such as Scribd etc. by the way guys...

Great job giving each of the traitor legions their own identities again.

Thanks man!

Right, here's a Fabius themed army list:

HQ - Chaos Lord - 2 Lightning Claws, Chaos Master - Icon of the Black Legion - 160pts

Elites - Fabius Bile - 160pts

Elites - 5 Possessed Chaos Space Marines - Mark of Chaos Undivided, open-topped rhino - 200pts (Fabius here)

Troops - 10 Chaos Space Marines - Enhanced Warriors, 2 meltaguns, open-topped rhino - 265pts

Troops - 10 Chaos Space Marines - Enhanced Warriors, 2 meltaguns, open-topped rhino - 265pts

Troops - 6 Chaos Space Marines - Enhanced Warriors, 1 flamer, open-topped rhino - 175pts (Lord here)

Troops - 15 Heretics - Lasguns, 2 Flamers, Mark of Chaos Undivided - 95pts

Heavy Support - Vindicator - Daemonic Possession - 130pts

Heavy Support - Defiler - 2 Reaper Autocannons - 155pts

Heavy Support - Defiler - 145pts

1750pts

Not perfect by any means, but the general idea is there, although it could be improved on.
You have 4 powerful close combat units advancing in open-topped rhinos, supported by a vindicator. These are all very in-your-face threats that should pressure an opponent.
During this the Defilers advance, draw fire and provide fire and the Heretics camp on an objective.

The Lord is good as he packs a reasonable punch in assault himself, but is able to grant a single unit of enhanced warriors a Veteran Skill each turn; potentially giving you Preferred Enemy on a Str5, T5 unit!

Just one question about the list. If it's a Fabius Bile themed list, shouldn't the lord have the Icon of the Emperor's Children?

yea that would make more sense fluff wise.

You mean the Fabius Bile who left his own Legion, doesn't worship Slaanesh and sells his services to other warbands but otherwise bears no affiliations, should specifically be part of an Emperors Children Warband?

just reread the codex...i feel dumb, didnt he end up going to the black legion any way?

For some reason after I download the pdf on the first post, all the unit descriptions and abilities and such (pretty much everything besides the statline) are blacked out. Any reason for this?

This codex alone is tempting me to begin a Chaos army. I've always avoided doing one after seeing the current bland codex, but the Thousand Sons are one of my favorite 40k factions. Good work so far!

alabamaheretic wrote:just reread the codex...i feel dumb, didnt he end up going to the black legion any way?

It's all right man. AFAIK he's just his usual mercenary self; probably lent his services to the Black Legion during the 13th Crusade I'd imagine...
He did apparently clone horus so he might not be all that popular with the Black Legion actually...

Hurricane wrote:For some reason after I download the pdf on the first post, all the unit descriptions and abilities and such (pretty much everything besides the statline) are blacked out. Any reason for this?

This codex alone is tempting me to begin a Chaos army. I've always avoided doing one after seeing the current bland codex, but the Thousand Sons are one of my favorite 40k factions. Good work so far!

Really? Weird... Does anyone else have this problem? If not, then I can email you a copy?

Wow, thanks man. Glad you like it; you'd need to make sure with your locals they don't mind you using a fandex (but AFAIK no-ones had any problems in that regard) before you start paying your hard-earned money on the models, but if the Codex can please you and allow you to collect this Chaos Army, then I'm happy to help man, really glad you like it. Tell me how it goes, eh?

i havent got that problem it worked well for me so who knows

I just tried downloading it on my laptop and it works fine there. Perhaps my reader is not up to date on my destktop or something like that. Anyway, I'm sure it would be fine with my local group. My only problem is choosing whether or not to begin a DE Wych cult or use this codex to create a Chaos list.

By the way, how many iterations of this codex are you planning on making before you officially complete it? On the other hand, do you intend on making this an ongoing project and never really "ending" it? As it looks now, I would easily believe this to be a codex comparable to the best 5th Edition codices as far as variety and power (DE and GK being my fav two)

Hmmm, well I guess it's nothing to worry about then. if the problem persists (elsewhere or for anyone else), then please tell me though!

Honestly, as much as I'd LOVE for this Codex to get extra coverage, I think it'd probably be best for you to go for the Wych cult as they have a fully working, fully legal Codex and great models, but that's just me. Go where your heart takes you (cheesy I know), but if that's to a CSM force then I won't complain!

Well, I'm hoping this will be pretty much the last iteration. I know of a couple of people on Dakka that are supposed to be/have using this Codex in games soon/already and will provide feedback on it, but I'm hoping to wrap this up pretty soon tbh. Any changes that occur between now and then will be fairly insignificant however (hopefully) so I wouldn't worry about things changing too much. But yes, as it stands its pretty much the finished article which should be on a similar power level to most 5th edition Codices as you noted, but soon I intend to wrap this up, where I'll publish this on Scribd too, create an article, probably send it to GW somehow and maybe hand it out to a few LGS...

Cheers man, appreciate the comments!

It's already in circulation among the community where I am. Still working on the BR, I'll have it up by Wednesday at the very latest.

Just Dave wrote:Probably send it to GW

I'd be careful about that. I just have a bad feeling you'd be cease-and-desist'ed, most likely for the images.

I didn't end up playing my CSM that day, and instead played my new DE.

However, I absolutely love the codex and will try to play a game with it!

@ JustDave


GAH!!! Got my list wrong, i pointed up the lascannons in the havocs as 5 points as per the Warsmith rule, but that is only valid for CSM sqauds. Doh.





re: ranged weapon for the Warsmith. I can see your reasoning behind not making the option available. I guess i just see the Warsmith differently.

One option i did look at was pointing it up as a sorcerer. That way the warsmith gets a kick-ass weapon (Force weapon) and can also have a nice ranged weapon as well (DoomBolt for example).

You get the ranged option but you also take a slight hit on attacks and saves.

iproxtaco wrote:It's already in circulation among the community where I am. Still working on the BR, I'll have it up by Wednesday at the very latest.

Cracking. Cheers man, I look forward to seeing the reports and feedback! Thanks!

Keatonic wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Probably send it to GW

I'd be careful about that. I just have a bad feeling you'd be cease-and-desist'ed, most likely for the images.

I didn't end up playing my CSM that day, and instead played my new DE.

However, I absolutely love the codex and will try to play a game with it!

I can't imagine it'd be a problem; there are plenty of fan-stuff on the web, I've put the legal crap at the end and I'm not making money out of it.
Thanks though, I can't say I blame you for playing DE instead; I love everything about them except fluff and the models are beautiful, thanks though man.

Praxiss wrote:@ JustDave


GAH!!! Got my list wrong, i pointed up the lascannons in the havocs as 5 points as per the Warsmith rule, but that is only valid for CSM sqauds. Doh.





re: ranged weapon for the Warsmith. I can see your reasoning behind not making the option available. I guess i just see the Warsmith differently.

One option i did look at was pointing it up as a sorcerer. That way the warsmith gets a kick-ass weapon (Force weapon) and can also have a nice ranged weapon as well (DoomBolt for example).

You get the ranged option but you also take a slight hit on attacks and saves.

I thought there looked like there was too much there, I was gonna total the points myself but never got around to it!

Glad you understand man; but yeah, I too thought the Sorcerer could be a compromise. You could always go for a Prince instead and get the strength and the shooty; albeit with a bit of Daemonic mixed in...

Why not give Iron warriors the Ability to have Obliterator lords?

Coz then you're giving one warband/legion/whatever a specific bonus which other ones wouldn't have. Could be contrued as an unfair advantage.

The codex is balanced fine, i'm just being picky. as i said, now that you can give Sorcerers the Icon of the Iron Warriors you can, in theory have a Sorcerer Warsmith.

Basically, Praxiss is on the money there; it'd imbalance the Legion options IMHO whilst it's also not really needed; I don't see any justification for it in fluff or gameplay and this Codex was intended to provide an up-to-date, characterful Chaos Space Marine army, not to provide for every whim and want tbh...

Just Dave wrote:Basically, Praxiss is on the money there; it'd imbalance the Legion options IMHO whilst it's also not really needed; I don't see any justification for it in fluff or gameplay and this Codex was intended to provide an up-to-date, characterful Chaos Space Marine army, not to provide for every whim and want tbh...

QFT.


Having a ranged Warsmith is just my personal thought. The fluff i have read does support chaos lords, as a general rule, tend to want to eb in the thick of it.

Here si what i woudl personally list for a "Fluffy" Warsmith (and by fluffy i mean the accepted fluff of charging in)



Chaos Lord
Icon of the iron Warriors
Warsmith
Combi-melta
Chaos Armour (for the 2+ armour save)
Daemonic Toughenss (FNP)
Power Maul / Daemon Weapon
Personal Icon (for calling in his Obliterator retinue)
Melta Bombs

This comes in at 175 pointswith the following stats:

WS 6
BS 5
S 4
T 4 (+ FNP)
W 3
I 5
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 2/5

Pretty good deal i think, consdiering the bonus the Maul can gvie you in CC.

if you want to get frisky..

Daemnoci Steed, bumps it up by 40 points but adds +1 S, +1 T and +1 A.

Not a bad idea Praxiss, but there is a problem in that you can't take Daemonic Toughness (read: bionics ) and Chaos Armour as they're both gifts; just go for Termie armour instead if I were you - very Iron Warriors esc too.