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I agree that Dreadclaws would be a nice addition. Still not sold on the them being walkers though. For them to have that and allow units to assault out of them AND be able to haveunits re-embark adn fly away...they would have to be pretty expensive, which means mst people most likely would not take them.

I say mix the renegade rules and the SM pod rules. Have it deploy in the same way as a SM pod (it works and is easy to remember). But keep the rule where units can re-embark. How about this...

If a unit is within 6" of their dedicated dreadclaw at the start of the movement phase (and are not fallign back or pinned), they may re-embark. The dreadclaw and unit are then placed back in reserves as the pod takes off again.

This might seem OP as the unit could then land again next turn and assault. But if it is placed back in reserve then the owning player will have to roll again for it to actually re-enter the game. Thus making re-deployment a devastating, but potentially unreliable option. To further mitigate it you could always add a -1 modifier to the reseves roll everytime the dreadclaw re-deploys or somethgin similar

I didn't mean for it to do both fly away and walk - one version of it had it walking, one version had it able to re-lift off. I personally like the idea of it being the first-ever non-superheavy walker transport. Being not open-topped it can't move, deploy models and then have them charge but special rules allowing an engaged dreadclaw to deploy its cargo directly into a combat it's in would be nice. And since it's AV 12, has no gun, and doesn't ignore armor saves in cc, it most definitely would NOT cost very much. Take a dreadnought. Remove its multi-melta and its DCCW and its storm-bolter. Keep in mind now that weapon destroyed results will count as immobilized, so it's much more fragile.

Since that dreadnought started at 105, how much do you think it's going to be worth now? Transport capacity isn't worth all that much - a rhino is barely more than two marines, and comes with a gun. A drop pod is 35 and is open-topped, but comes with a gun, but doesn't move. I really don't see dreadclaws being worth much more than 50, maybe 60 points to drop in and start walking.

LATEST VERSION OF THE PDF IS UP!

Didn't think I had forgotten had you?
Just been (and still am) busy.

Notable changes:
- Daemon Princes replace T5/4++ with T6/5++
- Lord Vahlinhurst Fluff added
- Sonic Weaponry Changed
- Grand Dreadnought renamed Chaos Dreadnought Magnate
- Daemonic Steeds improved and points increased.


As ever, all feedback is welcome. Please play using this Codex and spread the word!

Thanks, Dave.



----

Regarding Dreadclaws, I sincerely doubt I'll include them after thinking about it. As I've said before; they're described as drop-pods that possess high-strength weaponry on the base, primarily used for boarding operations, can take off after landing, have been discontinued, have errant machine spirits that can cause the death of their passengers. Because of these things, representing them is tricky.
If I were to include them they would probably be along these lines however:
- AV12 all round. Fast Skimmer, Equipped with Deathwing Missile Launcher.
- May transport up to 10 models in power armour. Models in Terminator Armour count as 2 models, Chaos Spawn count as 3.
- Must arrive via deepstrike. When it arrives, roll 2D6 for scatter as normal. Place a Large Blaster Marker where the Dreadclaw will land, any models under this suffer a Str8, AP1 strike, if there are no models remaining after this then the Dreadclaw lands as normal, if there are then it counts as a deep-strike mishap.
- Roll a D6 for each Dreadclaw, on a role of 1 then the Dreadclaw scatters 2D6 inches without the above (blast) attack and the contents of the Dreadclaw suffer 2D6 Str7, AP2 attacks.
- Probably around 45-50pts: high-risk, high-reward strategy potentially.

As I said however, it's an unwieldy method that if it sticks to the fluff - which it should - would be unlikely to be used. Therefore I'm unlikely to include it.,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what are the changes to the sonic weaponry?

You probably looked at it before I had the time to update the OP - you're looking for V2.1!

Oh, lol whoops.
I like it a lot, It's improved noise marines by 10 fold.

A quick question, why may Sorcerers not take the special ability conferred by the warband option? Especially for thousand sons this seems odd- I can make a Lord or a Champion into a 'Sorcerer Lord' even though he doesn't have any psychic powers, yet I can't make a Sorcerer into said Sorcerer Lord?

Was this just an oversight, or is there reasoning behind it?

Maybe an easier wording would be 'Any HQ with the Mark of this Warband may take X for Y points' so that you could give the named characters these abilities as well


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Aside from that one concern (primarily because my friend and I are going to try a game against each other) here is a list I have written up for this game.

Now, I'm not looking forward to this at all, as I know I am going to be defeated fairly handily, because he plays thousand sons, he plays them well, and it's a shitstorm against MeQs. Especially with this psyker coven thing, which he is far too pleased about

Anyway, here is my Warband of the Night Lords list
HQ
Lord
Dual Lightning Claws, Doom Siren, Jump Pack, Mark of Slaanesh, Shadowlord 200 points

Daemon Prince
Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Psyker (Lash) 210 points

Troops
10 Raptors
2 Meltaguns, Mark of Slaanesh, Champ w/ Fist 255 points

10 Raptors
1 Meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Champ w/ Fist 245 points

10 Raptors
1 Meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Champ w/ Lightning Claws 245 points

10 Noise Marines
Champ w/ Power Weapon / Doomsiren, Blastmaster 285 points
Rhino, Dirge Caster 45 points

5 Marines
Champ (free) 75 points
Rhino, Dirge Caster 45 points

Heavy Support

Land Raider
Dirge Caster 245 points

Predator
Lascannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons 150 points

If I have my math right, that's exactly 2000 points.
Now, This is a take all comers list that is going to get it's face handed to it when it plays against the aforementioned Thousand Sons list.
5 man squad is for camping an objective, rhinos can run around making nuisances of themselves by forcing leaderships at -2 (and hopefully in range of ShadowLord) whilst the noise marines cause havoc in the Land Raider.
All and all I tried to make a very fluffy list, which I am so glad I can do now, kudos, JD, I am very pleased with this list. It's just that I'm making an all comers list against an army that is fairly tailored to MeQ...
So keep an eye out for that incoming Batrep, I'll link it from here, and in the batrep i'll link to here.

Thoughts about this whole dreadclaw thing.... If you're going to do it, just make it for dreadnoughts only. There are lots of units in the codex that have astounding mobility (termies, raptors...all of the daemons), and I don't feel like a dreadclaw would really contribute that much besides making our dreadnoughts mobile instead of footslogging.


Or even better, just fundamentally add a 'may gain the deep strike rule for X points' and mention in the fluff that it's possible that they were dropped off my dreadclaw, but the player can make fluff accordingly. But still. It's not necessary.

Well the chances are it's not being included anyway Samus, so it needn't be worried about!

ZephyrRey wrote:A quick question, why may Sorcerers not take the special ability conferred by the warband option? Especially for thousand sons this seems odd- I can make a Lord or a Champion into a 'Sorcerer Lord' even though he doesn't have any psychic powers, yet I can't make a Sorcerer into said Sorcerer Lord?

Was this just an oversight, or is there reasoning behind it?

Nope, this wasn't an oversight. I answered this before saying "My thinking was that Sorcerers aren't typically the head honcho of a warband as it were (except for the exception, TS), whilst they are obviously a solid in-game choice, it would enable more reason for Lords and the like.
Partially, it's my personal point of view, but also I think it's somewhat justified and shouldn't make a huge impact on gameplay."
I for example don't imagine a Sorcerer leading a Iron Warriors, Death Guard, Night Lords etc. Warband, rather than being the 2nd in command or so. Similar circumstances can be seen by the roles played by Sorcerers in the fluff in that most of the fluff I've heard of has them as being subordinate to someone else.

Aside from that one concern (primarily because my friend and I are going to try a game against each other) here is a list I have written up for this game.

Now, I'm not looking forward to this at all, as I know I am going to be defeated fairly handily, because he plays thousand sons, he plays them well, and it's a shitstorm against MeQs. Especially with this psyker coven thing, which he is far too pleased about

Anyway, here is my Warband of the Night Lords list
HQ
Lord
Dual Lightning Claws, Doom Siren, Jump Pack, Mark of Slaanesh, Shadowlord 200 points

Daemon Prince
Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Psyker (Lash) 210 points

Troops
10 Raptors
2 Meltaguns, Mark of Slaanesh, Champ w/ Fist 255 points

10 Raptors
1 Meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Champ w/ Fist 245 points

10 Raptors
1 Meltagun, Mark of Slaanesh, Champ w/ Lightning Claws 245 points

10 Noise Marines
Champ w/ Power Weapon / Doomsiren, Blastmaster 285 points
Rhino, Dirge Caster 45 points

5 Marines
Champ (free) 75 points
Rhino, Dirge Caster 45 points

Heavy Support

Land Raider
Dirge Caster 245 points

Predator
Lascannon Turret, Lascannon Sponsons 150 points

If I have my math right, that's exactly 2000 points.
Now, This is a take all comers list that is going to get it's face handed to it when it plays against the aforementioned Thousand Sons list.
5 man squad is for camping an objective, rhinos can run around making nuisances of themselves by forcing leaderships at -2 (and hopefully in range of ShadowLord) whilst the noise marines cause havoc in the Land Raider.
All and all I tried to make a very fluffy list, which I am so glad I can do now, kudos, JD, I am very pleased with this list. It's just that I'm making an all comers list against an army that is fairly tailored to MeQ...
So keep an eye out for that incoming Batrep, I'll link it from here, and in the batrep i'll link to here.

GREAT!

Thanks man, I really look forward to seeing how it goes and what can be learnt from it. I really hope you enjoy it and I'm glad you can make your almost ideal list. Good luck man.

You'll be at a slight disadvantage in that they don't really worry about Leadership tests either!

Try to place your models so that they only need to face one round of shooting from the rubricae and bear in mind that being TS he'll either have few vehicles; meaning they can be taken out easier, or he'll have no vehicles meaning you can focus weapons that ignore all is dust against him.

Tbh, I have/am trying to think of a way to make it so TS aren't so specifically good against MeQ and short of a Psybolt rip-off I can't think of too much atm. Maybe making all armour saves +1 (2+ = 3+ etc.) however...

I really really look forward to hearing about it, thanks man.

Well, I might have considered taking a winged sorc of slaanesh with warptime instead of the lord, as WT is basically better lightning claws ( I would have used him as a counts as lord ) but I can't. In all honesty, if you cant use a sorc I don't think the champ should be able to get the upgrade either; denies these special rules in low points games, as a small skirmish force isn't lead by one of those 'leaders'

For the purpose of this game I'll probably let him make his sorc the sorc lord if he wants to, if you don't mind.

And also, I fully anticipate him to bring 3 squads of sons, a pred, a defiler (or two) or some oblits, or even a land raider. He has the hq choice of iron warriors, for one who plays ksons...

Also, I wouldn't really change the Ksons, save maybe the asp sorc gets the 4+ instead of the 5+ he has now. They pay their premium for being good against mech, and he doesn't have to take all rubrics, he can use normal marines too, so if he goes all out against MeQ it's his own choice in losing effectiveness against GeQ and the like.
(we've been discussing this a lot, actually, as he and I are playing in a team tourny this weekend. Lol)

ZephyrRey wrote:Well, I might have considered taking a winged sorc of slaanesh with warptime instead of the lord, as WT is basically better lightning claws ( I would have used him as a counts as lord ) but I can't. In all honesty, if you cant use a sorc I don't think the champ should be able to get the upgrade either; denies these special rules in low points games, as a small skirmish force isn't lead by one of those 'leaders'

For the purpose of this game I'll probably let him make his sorc the sorc lord if he wants to, if you don't mind.

Well if he's using the TS Warband Rules, then Sorcerers can become a Sorcerer Lord anyway - that bit wasn't an oversight!
You raise a good point of the Champs vs. Sorcerers however, tbh I've been considering removing Champions all-together.

I would point out that you could still have the Shadow Lord on your Prince and get a Sorcerer.
If I were you, I would've gone for the Sorcerer for the additional Psychic Deterrent alongside the Lord or Prince...

Also, I wouldn't really change the Ksons, save maybe the asp sorc gets the 4+ instead of the 5+ he has now. They pay their premium for being good against mech, and he doesn't have to take all rubrics, he can use normal marines too, so if he goes all out against MeQ it's his own choice in losing effectiveness against GeQ and the like.
(we've been discussing this a lot, actually, as he and I are playing in a team tourny this weekend. Lol)

Ha! Well you should know in that case.
That's a good point. I'm gonna do the math on the +1 to armour save change, but it's likely to stay as it is.

Thanks again for the feedback.

I know my friend's rolling. He'll never perils except for on a snakeyes. so no point running the sorc when i can run a better, more fire taking prince, that matches my fluff more anyway (my made up sorc character, or the actual dp character kreig acerbus) I like my fluff

Really wish i could use this codex in this team tourny...

Also, this is the entry for the TS lord:

A single Daemon Prince, Chaos Lord or Chaos Champion may select the Sorcerer Lord special rule for 30pts, conferring the following effect:
so no, he cant take a sorc with sorc lord :/

Sorry Dave, I promised a Battle Report soonish, but there were a few problems regarding the lists used and what actually happened, and for some reason the pictures were all pixelated. That said, it's being worked on, I hope it provides some feedback when its finished.

ZephyrRey wrote:I know my friend's rolling. He'll never perils except for on a snakeyes. so no point running the sorc when i can run a better, more fire taking prince, that matches my fluff more anyway (my made up sorc character, or the actual dp character kreig acerbus) I like my fluff

Really wish i could use this codex in this team tourny...

Also, this is the entry for the TS lord:

A single Daemon Prince, Chaos Lord or Chaos Champion may select the Sorcerer Lord special rule for 30pts, conferring the following effect:
so no, he cant take a sorc with sorc lord :/

Crud. It at least is supposed to say Sorcerer there for the TS too; so yeah he can! I'll change that now, good spot man.

iproxtaco wrote:Sorry Dave, I promised a Battle Report soonish, but there were a few problems regarding the lists used and what actually happened, and for some reason the pictures were all pixelated. That said, it's being worked on, I hope it provides some feedback when its finished.

That's OK. I'd rather not have to wait as you can imagine, but feedback is feedback so it'll be worth it I hope! Cheers man.

------

What do people think of the idea of dropping Champions altogether?

Also, here's a Daemonbomb list under my Codex:

- HQ - Daemon Prince - Icon of the Word Bearers - Wings, Mark of Tzeentch (Bolt of Change) - 205pts

- HQ - Greater Daemon - 125pts

- Troops - 10 Chaos Space Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino - 220pts
- Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon & Personal Icon

- Troops - 10 Chaos Space Marines - 2 Meltaguns, Rhino - 220pts
- Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon & Personal Icon

- Troops - 8 Lesser Daemons - Mark of Khorne - 128pts

- Troops - 8 Lesser Daemons - Mark of Khorne - 128pts

- Fast Attack - 7 Chaos Bikers - 2 Meltaguns, Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon & Personal Icon - 232pts

- Heavy Support - Chaos Predator - Lascannon Sponsons - 120pts

- Heavy Support - Chaos Predator - Lascannon Sponsons - 120pts

1498ts



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Also it seems Forgeworld have been kind enough to make a model for the Dreadnought Magnate
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/CONTEMPTOR_PATTERN_DREADNOUGHT_BODY.html

everyone is going gaga over that contemptor. I mean, he's cool and all, but i would rather have this, personally.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/DREADNOUGHTS/NIGHT-LORDS-DREADNOUGHT.html
Maybe I'm biased though.

Also, based on how I see the rules here, dont the CSM squads in that list have to have at least IoCG for them to be able to summon the daemons?
'Daemons with any mark (rather than just the same) may be summoned by a model with a Mark of Chaos Undivided'
This and this:
'Daemons can only be summoned (or possess) by a model bearing the same Mark of Chaos as the Daemon, however Daemons without a Mark of Chaos may be summoned by any Personal Icon.'

This makes me believe that (as word bearers) you at least need IoCG in those csm squads if they want to be able to summon those knornate LDs.


On a side note, I read through your Primarchs ranking, and I could not like it more, unless you put Konrad up one more slot Nice to see that someone else knows how badass we are...


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Here's a present for you, dave:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/380728.page#3027386

Overall I'm really happy with how the codex performed. I think that No Mercy! finally gave the MoS (and noise marines) the extra little buff they needed to keep up with the other cult troops / icons.

As a last note, I have challenged my brother to make a 2k GK list to play against this one. So batrep#2 to come once that game ends.

Just skimmed over it pretty damn good, never knew what cypher did adding him gave me an insight. Might actually have to play test with this with a freind of mine to see how the rules go (love the word bearers warband idea) any rate love it and def gonna use it in friendly games.


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oh yea who is that matt guy that every one bitches about and compares to c.s. goto? have only been playing 40k for two years sorry if i am kinda a newb.

alabamaheretic wrote:


oh yea who is that matt guy that every one bitches about and compares to c.s. goto? have only been playing 40k for two years sorry if i am kinda a newb.

His name's matt ward.

ZephyrRey wrote:everyone is going gaga over that contemptor. I mean, he's cool and all, but i would rather have this, personally.
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/DREADNOUGHTS/NIGHT-LORDS-DREADNOUGHT.html
Maybe I'm biased though.

I guess you could be biased... Maybe...

Personally, I think the Iron Warriors or Death Guard have the best looking Dread's of the lot, Alpha Legion a close 3rd for me though. GW really needs to make a plastic Chaos Dread kit and IMHO these rules would really support it.

Also, based on how I see the rules here, dont the CSM squads in that list have to have at least IoCG for them to be able to summon the daemons?
'Daemons with any mark (rather than just the same) may be summoned by a model with a Mark of Chaos Undivided'
This and this:
'Daemons can only be summoned (or possess) by a model bearing the same Mark of Chaos as the Daemon, however Daemons without a Mark of Chaos may be summoned by any Personal Icon.'

This makes me believe that (as word bearers) you at least need IoCG in those csm squads if they want to be able to summon those knornate LDs.

You know... You're absolutely right! Who's frickin' Codex is this?!

On a side note, I read through your Primarchs ranking, and I could not like it more, unless you put Konrad up one more slot Nice to see that someone else knows how badass we are...

Here's a present for you, dave:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/380728.page#3027386

Overall I'm really happy with how the codex performed. I think that No Mercy! finally gave the MoS (and noise marines) the extra little buff they needed to keep up with the other cult troops / icons.

As a last note, I have challenged my brother to make a 2k GK list to play against this one. So batrep#2 to come once that game ends.

Cracking!
Thanks a lot man; great to have a battle report for the Codex. Good to see it performed well, but not too well. Great report man. Seriously, thanks. I wonder how things may have changed had they been hammernators in that Redeemer and/or it didn't immobilise itself.
Great game man, thanks A LOT.

alabamaheretic wrote:Just skimmed over it pretty damn good, never knew what cypher did adding him gave me an insight. Might actually have to play test with this with a freind of mine to see how the rules go (love the word bearers warband idea) any rate love it and def gonna use it in friendly games.


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oh yea who is that matt guy that every one bitches about and compares to c.s. goto? have only been playing 40k for two years sorry if i am kinda a newb.

Cheers man, glad you like it. Be sure to tell me how your game(s) go if you do, thanks man.

Mat Ward is a games/codex/army book writer for GW; he's well known (and hated by the community) for making rather OTT fluff and in-game rules, which comes across as very immature, although it must be said that his Codices are largely pretty balanced. Lets not start discussing Mr Ward though, eh?

ok fair enough, didnt realize he was that much of a pain in the ass. will do on the game though. cuase the word bearers are gonna kick some ass! oh ya~!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/380984.page#3032107 Here's another one, dave. Sadly, I got ended by Draigo and my own inexperience with the GK codex.
Anyway, I am thoroughly enjoying the codex, as the rhino's with Dirge Casters were pretty much the most effective thing in my entire list.

ZephyrRey wrote:http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/380984.page#3032107 Here's another one, dave. Sadly, I got ended by Draigo and my own inexperience with the GK codex.
Anyway, I am thoroughly enjoying the codex, as the rhino's with Dirge Casters were pretty much the most effective thing in my entire list.

Another? Crackin' man. Cheers!
Seemed like a good battle again; I think that the Grey Knights were always going to be a problem with power weapons all round so I can't say I'm too surprised at the result; particularly with how quickly the pali's got into close combat.
Would you say the Dirge Casters were effective or too effective? Bearing in mind Purifiers are actually fearless...

alabamaheretic wrote:ok fair enough, didnt realize he was that much of a pain in the ass. will do on the game though. cuase the word bearers are gonna kick some ass! oh ya~!

It's OK, it's simply that discussions about him usually lead to aggression and the thread being locked...

----

Couple of changes I intend to make:

- Khorne Bezerkers & Noise Marines are to go up to 23pts. This is for several reasons:

Noise Marines got AP5.
Bring in line with the other cult troops, whilst not making them an auto-take over CSMs.
Khorne Bezerkers will get Counter-Charge
Noise Marines will get Acute Senses

Thoughts?

I love the counter-charge on the Khorne Berzrkers.

I also have to say, it's good to hear that the cult units are getting a price increase, but I think there should be more incentive for taking plainclothes CSM. It's 4:00 in the morning over here in California right now, so I don't have any ideas (yet), but I'll think of something.

Alright, I've come back with a thing. Pinning. Either give basic CSM squads Pinning as a special rule, or give Heavy Bolters the Pinning USR. I've been involved in long and hard-fought threads about what to do with Heavy Bolters, since Autocannons and Assault Cannons are much more effective and worth the price, and the general consensus was PINNING.

It gives the Heavy Bolter a unique role that most weapons don't have. Since it CANNOT compete with more effective anti-infantry weapons despite that it's cheaper and usually free, most people will not take them in favor of the more expensive and effective weapons. Instead of boosting their power to compete with heavy weapons and heavy weapons squads, it's more effective to come up with a role that is usually not filled.

The issue I'm having is that I don't see much of a point to use any army other than the 'Big Four's' legions. They have access to troops that are (to quote MTG terminology) simply better than the competition. They need to stand out, which they don't. This is one point that I thought Dawn of War II (I know what that sounds like, just bear with me) game adressed very well. Heavy weapons squads had a greater fire output, jump squads could move quickly, and tactical squads were tough as all hell. My point is that they filled a very necessary role. They could be kitted out with any weapon type and still fulfill their role, which was to draw fire and hold positions.

I am by no means telling you to make CSM squads tougher, What I'm saying is they lack definition. I understand that the whole point is they can do anything, but in doing so they become less effective at everything.

Just my two cents.


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I'm also trying to get a game together with my Eldar (Dark and otherwise) playing friend. I'll keep you posted. Which of the two armies I've made would you rather see, the Thousand Sons or World Eaters?

Heavy bolter in no way needs pinning, that would be silly. Plainclothers csm will be taken for the same reason that tacticals are, an that is that they need to bodies to score with on the field. If i hadn't been playing night lords I would have had many more csm with MoS instead of those raptors.

I hadn't played this codex, and my brother only picked the army because it's the hot new thing, not because he had actually read it. Him not knowing rules screwed me over a few times. 'oh yeah, draigo is t5' 'oh yeah, stormravens are assault vehicles' 'oh yeah, i have psybolt AND psyflame ammo'
jeeeeez....
I don't think the dirge casters were TOO effective, but they could maybe be 5 points more expensive. I mean, part of it was Shadowlord, an the other half was he cant roll morale for feth.

My argument is that if you need bodies on the field, this codex has better options, like the cult units. I don't see any reason to take basic CSM squads, because that's all they are. They are basic, and saying 'Pinning is silly' is missing the point. Like I've said before a number of times, the unit doesn't stand out.

Does anyone here play Magic (the trading card game)? In professional circuits, it's common knowledge that if you've got cards that don't work with the deck they're in, They aren't really doing anything. A deck that throws big things around should throw big things and not dick around countering things. A fast deck needs to be mach speed. The CSM squad offers nothing but a blob of meat to me, simple as that. Rubric Marines dish out more firepower, Khorne Berzerkers shred in CC, Plague Marines are tougher, and Noise Marines.... do whatever noise marines do. (I don't use Slaanesh. Too frail for my tastes in the daemonic.) Pinning is just a thing I came up with.

So that's my two cents again. I hope I made it more clear.

Perhaps its because there's a 0-1 limit on all warbands that wouldn't take a large amount of cult units? Because basic marines are cheaper and fulfill a larger variety of roles for their reduced cost? Because they aren't tied to a specific mark?

@iproxtaco: In that case, I'd rather just take the cult unit, which means I'd probably just go with the warband that's with one of the 'Big Four'. (Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, World Eaters and Death Guard)

This is part of my intentions to make all Cult Troops 23pts; alongside being (typically) 0-1, the player wouldn't be discouraged from taking your 'average' CSM, who has many benefits in themselves. The standard CSM is almost on par with Grey Hunters who are widely regarded as arguably the best troop choice in the game. The Cult Units fill specialist roles and they pay for this; the standard CSM is much more versatile and much cheaper.
10 Chaos Space Marines, with a Rhino, 2 meltaguns and MoCU is 210pts. However, this is even less so for Black Legion & Iron Warriors, whilst the Word Bearers would get a Champion for free and greater use out of MoCU.
8 Khorne Bezerkers, with open-topped rhino, skull champion with powerfist tops 240pts. They're a much more specialist unit that whist very hard hitting would struggle to fill the roles that the standard CSM can; holding objectives, anti-tank, support etc.

I'd actually argue the unmarked Legions to be amongst the better warband choices due to how they can help trim those extra points elsewhere and round out the list, rather than reducing the overall number of bodies like masses of cult units can.

I'm really quite content with the existing CSM's due to the roles they fulfill within the army; be it support, capture and control, anti-tank, summoning, extra bodies, cheap... you name it.

Whilst obviously I've tried to make Cult Units better than their current incarnation and their CSM counterparts, I still think CSM's form the whole of most forces, as Taco' and Rey seem to also think. If I had Grey Hunters and Grey Knight Strike Squads in the same army, I'd most likely take the Grey Hunters in most cases.
Plague Marines are durable, Khorne Bezerkers rule in close combat, Thousand Sons are hard-hitting and tough and Noise Marines are excellent anti-infantry, but the Chaos Space Marines can do all of this (albeit to a lesser extent) for less.

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So people are OK with the idea regarding increasing each to 23pts with their relative bonuses?
Regarding who I'd rather see out of TS and WE, I'd probably have to say World Eaters as Rey's intending to cover TS. Although I would wonder if your concerns about the Coven rings true...

Thanks for the feedback and discussion guys!

ok did not mean to get a wart started about that guy. any way just read the grand dread rules pretty awesome. so what exactly does accute senses do does it give them auto night fight or something?

Perhaps it's just my playstyle. I'm actually okay wtih the CSMs, but they just aren't as interesting to me as the cultists, the same reason I couldn't ever really get into Vanilla Space Marines (or any other Space Marines for that matter).

Dave, I trust your judgement, and I'll leave it at that.

acute senses get to reroll night fighting, I believe.
Honestly I would take CSM over any other troop choice (save for cult troops) in the game, considering they have bolters AND two cc weps, and have such versatility in upgrades with the Marks of Chaos