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No not really!

I suppose I should have mentioned that these WILL be "Truescaled" Marines too...

Anyway... at least this book won't cost $40 to $50, and be hardback, eh?

bhsman wrote:As for the codex, you of all people (IIRC and if I'm wrong then I apologize) complained about Battle Missions, of all things. Maybe you should wait before making such proclamations, in either case.

I complained about Planetstrike being garbage. I may have been complaining about Battle Missions too, since those turned out garbage as well. /shrug

And, for me, that's not actually a complaint. A couple easy-as-pie hard builds in a codex (Hi Deathwing) is preferable to mucking through all the chaff to find something modestly competitive (Hi Tyranids).

And from the look, other options will at least be viable. Hopefully this is a lot closer to Space Wolves than Codex: Deathwing, and I think it probably will be given the amount of fluff love poured into GK.

Again, I don't care. Some people do care when they show up to a tournament and find themselves facing 15 Missilefangs in every single game. I'm not one, so w/e.

My own 'super duper secret codex knoweldge'.

Sadly that same super secret knowledge has not provided me with a picture of the Dreadknight...

I imagine it would have to look like a Penitent engine with a Terminator glued into the cockpit. I hope that's what it is, as the alternative is either that Matrix walker thing or an Avatar Deff Dread.

Still, at that point cost, with that weapon loadout, those things are insane. Here's hoping they actually release a model, or the kitbashing and counts-as will be rife as players strive to build the GK equiv of the Thunderwulf.

I don't think using Grey Knights as Alpha Legion stand-ins makes a hell of a lot of sense either (AL are not anti-Daemon psychic Marines), but really guys - who cares?

All the various Chaos Legion players ain't got gak these days besides a bland as all feth 1-trick pony of a Codex. There are people out there using various Loyalist lists to represent the Legions we used to have, so why should GK's be any different?

(On Karamazov)
So in other words he is worse than he is now? He will have less strength and no invulnerable save. I didn't see a mention of Relentless so he will have a hard time firing that Multi-melta if he moves. What's his poitn and why will he be in a Grey Knight codex since he was Ordo Hereticus.

Means he will be cheaper which is god sent in this codex.

Codex: Grey Knight embraces all Ordos. They are an Organization of Tolerance, well known for their cooperation with other organizations and their very public presence as the psychic UN of the Imperium.

For the greater good...of the Imperium of man I mean.

The rumors make it look like this will be a collective =I= codex with lots of GK present and even options for sisters of battle hangers-on.

Maybe you'd like to move the count-as discussion elsewhere
It's kind of annoying when rumors are constantly dripping out but people have to dig through Pyriel's inability to have fun to read about them.

So I´m the only one? thanks for being a hypocrite.

Brotherhood Champion:
74441*10 2+
Infantry, Character
Artificer, Frag, Krack, Iron Halo, storm bolter
Anointed Blade: Nemesis Force Sword, re roll failed wounds.

Whooa, even more anti horde options, looks fun.
Although I´m against the whole self sacrafice theme, GKs are incredibly rare and should do a little bit more self preservation me thinks.

I also like the probable higher WS for HQs and ICs, goes well with the GK-cc theme of the current codex.

Lord Draigo: WS 7 BS 6 S 5 T 5 W 4 I 5 A 5 Ld 10 Sv 2+ Points 275
Wargear: Titan Sword (str 10 vs demons and psykers), Storm Shield, Frag, Krak, Psyk-out grenades
Options: ?
Special Rules: Lord of Titan (take Paladins as troops), Psychic Mastery 2, Eternal Warrior
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Psychic Communion, Cleansing Flame

Wow, and I thought memphiston was bad enough.
With this codex HQ creep what will necrons get, 400p necron lords?
By the way, this HQ just screams Inquisitor Rex. Forgeworld here I come.

Nemesis Dreadknight (MC): WS 5 BS ? S 7 T 7 W 4 I ? A 3 Sv 2+/4++ 130 Points
Wargear: Heavy Psycannon, Super Incinerator, 2 close combat weapons.
Options: Personal Teleporter +75 Points
Special Rules: Monsterous Creature, Deepstrike, Psychic Mastery 1
Psychic Powers: Hammer Hand, Holocaust.

Think I just wet my pants, this will be landraider priced fully decked and so damn fun to use on the tabletop that I´m getting 3 of them and building a GK army around those no matter if they end up being crap or competitive. I love it when GW introduce new units and wouldnt it be for my super slow painting I´d be all over dark eldar right now.

Wonder if the personal teleporters will be scatter free, if so I think this unit is a bit broken.

And really, since everything is going to be properly modeled, WYSIWYG at all, the only objection Pyriel- has is... the color of the marines?

At this point, even he would have to admit to being more than a little 'unreasonable'...

Yeah yeah you little insidious fluff ruiner (a joke, no offense ment)
Take further debates like this in PM with me please, I dont want to be called out as the only one dragging OT stuff in here based on posts by you by that hypocrite.

Grand Master Mordrack:

Dagmire wrote:200 points
6 6 4 4 4 5 4 10 2+
this is the guy that comes with ghosts as his body guard.
Deep stikes like drop pods do, first turn landings ect
and give the D3 dice rolls to improve units


Marshal Augustine wrote:him and his squad will DS with NO scatter.
Stats are accurate.

Stealth for the Ghost Knights. (one wounded terminators)

Roll D3 for each unsaved wound he suffers. If = or greater than his remaining wounds, another knight shows up and joins the unit.
32pts per ghost minimum of 1 and max 10

Can have Nemesis Force Halberds for free, or nemesis deamon hammers for free.
Falchions for +5 per model.
Nemesis Warding Stave.
Psybolt ammo
Any model may make any weapon Master Crafted at +10.
Brotherhood banner +25.

Hmm, very fun option but how are those guys considered balanced?
Having 11 termies popping in amidst your lines without scatter on turn one is even worse then the dark angel special rule.
If supported by mech popping units at the back then what on earth are armies like tau and other cc weak shooty armies going to do against that?
Seems to be a bit to powerful but maybe those terminators will be particularily voulnerable to PA1-2 weapons to coulnterbalance it.

Also having night fight put on a unit that is meant to pop out in the middle of the enemy seems a bit unnecessary.

It may turn out to be insanely large, whatever GW actually has decided to call it. This new walker should be the next large kit for 40K, a mini-Titan. Hopefully the price is not more than the Stormraven.

HBMC said this will not be a "mini titan".

On the face of it, all the cool toys seem far too undercosted. Do people think this could be a synergy thing? ie the fancy stuff is cheap, because the scoring units are so expensive you'll have very few. Or has everyone agreed the cheapness is bad codex writing, designed to sell the new army?

Yhe cheapness will probably be countered by synnergy.
Look at the space wolves and dark eldar codexes, they have dirt cheap troops and shooty infantry options but pay through the nose for quality CC and the DE have freaking 6 point spammable troops that wound anything in the game at 4+ by shooting.
But still overall they end up fairly balanced when built to counter all comers.

Another means to balance it is ading costs for additional psychic powers to squads so the price skyrockets in the end.
That or having squads come with only ONE power, you can choose to keep the hammerhand for example but that means you dont get shrouding and can be deepstriked on etc.
if you choose shrouding or something else like holocaust you loose hammerhand and are no longer S5 and if you use a poer then you cannot use the force weapon ability on the same turn etc.

These small bits and pieces can contribute to a balanced whole quite well.

There's no such thing as a "true Fluff" Space Marines army, as your model scales make zero sense when it's a given that 40k Space Marines are 28mm tall on a 25mm round base.

I have no problem with the power level, but it would need to be modeled properly.

I could see this done via loyalist Machine Cult TechMarines using augmented systems like the Throne of Judgement, backed by masses of Drone servitors.

hmm, you just gave me some nice ideas...thanks

I'm guessing Vindicares will be best (although cba to run numbers until we have more info). Thats 11/12 chance of hitting, PLUS average pen. of 17, PLUS AP1, PLUS stealth PLUS infiltrate AND if your opponent skips vehicles, they still boot backside vs everything but the most extreme horde (although I honestly can't think of a opposition build where sniping out special and heavy weapons wont come in useful)

If the vindicare rumors are true I wonder how powerful must the eversor be in cc (he sucks currently) and how fun would the culexus be. currently the culexus is to specialized and does nothing.

So he's basically lysander, with frag & krak grenades, +1T & A and can have 2-wound termies as troops?!7
but why have hammerhand if you already have a S10 CCW?

Maybe hammerhand can be conveyed to units he joins?
Can hammerhand be stacked?

Some things seem illogical like stealth rule for guys meant to deepstrike right in the middle of the enemy army.

You're being intentionally obtuse. Pyriel has a legitimate point that Alpha Legionnaires, as hard core as you want to believe they are, are not properly represented as all having storm bolters, force weapons, and anti-psyker armor. Just because there are marines and there are humans does not mean "hey this is perfect for my AL army and there are no flaws in my plan!" Honestly basic space marines of any codex, with scouts, would probably be closer to correct than super-duper-amazing space marines and guardsmen.

I could do super psycher salamander marines as well but again, I dont like to bucher tabletop fluff.
Btw, sorry about the previous youknowwhat if it means anything to you.

If anything the GKs could best of all "count as" represent a small bloodraven army since those are rumored in the fluff to have squads consisting of psychers. But here I rant again and will probably be singled out and blamed for "all" of the OT posts again *sigh*.

It seems at least conceptually to be GK answer to fighting defilers and other daemon engines. I would imagine its going to be at least as tall as that.

Logical conclusion but normal troop GK termintors (with stormshields if allowed) do that job pretty well already.
I wonder what role will GK dreadnought have, I imagine a 6 dreadnought army will be made possible with 3 normal dreads and 3 ven dreads but dreads die like flies to shooting and cant CC worth crap.

Who will and why will GK dreadnoughts be used with all those other super cool options that do shooting and/or CC far better?

Well then why do you need str 10 vs psykers and demons if you already have str 10? unless it grants another ability

Hammerhand grants +1S so the Lord of Titan will get S6 power weapon attachs vs everything and S10 vs deamons as I understand it.

Dreadknights are insanely good. I assume that the wargear is actually wargear options, i.e. no 2 CCW if taking heavy psycannon, etc. If he gets all of that then he's basically a souped-up Khorne-Tzeentch-Nurgle Prince for fewer points and a massive shooting attack.

From what I've read the guns are as well as his close combat weapons.

so he has A4 in reality (extra DCCW included) as well as a super psycannon and super incinerator for 130 points?
Hmm, seems very underpriced. Wonder what will balance up this.

Personally, I'm skipping over what Pyriel says...

Wow, very neccesary thing to say.
Consider yourself ignored too then.

Why can't they have storm-bolters....? There's been some mention of them 'impersonating' other imperial marine units before, so why not? Captured equipment...?
Why can't they have force weapons...? What, they can't have any warp-based/blessed weaponry from the Architect of Fate (Tzeentch) or for some strange reason they're purists that have no psykers in their midst?

Hmm, very good points that I havent thought of. Made me finally agree to it all. (happy Alphy?)
Can we leave this now?

And try not to get H.B.M.C riled up. I think he just calmed down.

Call Kanluven


Now where are the =I= psychic powers that are rumored to be beefed up (since the =I=s will be pretty fragile)?

So what does an Alpha Legion player gain by using the Grey Knight Codex?
- A mix of Marines and Humans - as per fluff.
- Ability to use what is akin to Guerilla warfare - as per fluff.
- Space Marines more similar to how they should be in game - as per fluff.
- What other Codex are they supposed to use?!

Then there are other representations also:
Dark angels = lots of terminator armours.
Salamanders = lots of terminator armours, lots of quality wargear.
Blood ravens = lots of psychers.
Raven guard = even better, the spec ops and sneaky deepstrike guys of the space marines.

Go ahead and paint GKs blue, green, black or red if it yanks your chain.

Alpharius wrote:No not really!

If you are going to not bother to defend your position at least give up in a non-snarky way.

sourclams wrote:I imagine it would have to look like a Penitent engine with a Terminator glued into the cockpit. I hope that's what it is, as the alternative is either that Matrix walker thing or an Avatar Deff Dread

I hope the model is good. Honestly I can see so many lazy/stupid ways for GW to make a Dreadknight model that it seems more likely that it will be boring than cool.

ph34r wrote:
Half of your argument is a generic argument for how marine rules should be more like movie marines and can be safely discarded as it does not apply to Alpha Legion and more than it does to Blood Angels.

The other half of your argument is a mix of marines and humans, which is valid, and the ability to use Guerilla warfare... oops, you messed up that one.
Sorry, but teleporting is not Guerilla warfare. In fact, rules already exist in game to represent that! Let's take a magic tour through our rule book and remember that Infiltrate, Scout, and Stealth exist!

So after we cut away the 3/4 of your argument that are useless...

Ah, DakkaDakka, home of the "I can't refute your argument, therefore it's invalid!"

In all seriousness, Alpha shows up at a tournament (since that's the only place where this argument could conceivably matter), with his lavishly and exactingly customized Counts-As Alpha Legion, and the actual argument (the words now) proffered to the tournament organizers that he shouldn't be allowed to use the existing counts-as rules for his army would be...?

Let's be serious here, this Codex is going to be pretty insane if even half these rumors are true. We'll probably be getting space wolf models being used for counts-as GKs....

Buzzsaw wrote:Ah, DakkaDakka, home of the "I can't refute your argument, therefore it's invalid!"

In all seriousness, Alpha shows up at a tournament (since that's the only place where this argument could conceivably matter), with his lavishly and exactingly customized Counts-As Alpha Legion, and the actual argument (the words now) proffered to the tournament organizers that he shouldn't be allowed to use the existing counts-as rules for his army would be...?

Let's be serious here, this Codex is going to be pretty insane if even half these rumors are true. We'll probably be getting space wolf models being used for counts-as GKs....

Believe it or not, when you are making an argument for something other than what you are defending, your argument IS invalid. If I started arguing about how tyranids should cost less points to defend my counting World Eaters as Grey Knights, that wouldn't support me would it? If you argue for why marines should be closer to fluff it does not support Alpha Legion = Anti Daemon Psyker Marines.

Also, in an amazing display of irony instead of trying to argue against any of my points you ignore them, following the spirit of your own attack post. You hereby earn best hypocrite of the day.


Nobody would refuse to play against a well converted count-as, even if it makes no sense at all.

Honestly guys - give it a rest. You're conducting an Internet Pissing Contest over a proposed 'Counts As' army. Ain't you got anything better to do?

Pyriel- wrote:HBMC said this will not be a "mini titan".

HBMC also said that he had not seen a picture of this new unit (model or artwork), and that the description from the fluff he'd read makes it out to be a sorta-Dread, not an almost-Titan.

I don't think using Grey Knights as Alpha Legion stand-ins makes a hell of a lot of sense either (AL are not anti-Daemon psychic Marines), but really guys - who cares?

Well obviously Aplhy should care, if he isnt´t nice to me I wont sculpt up true scale Alpha legion marines for him to use instead of those GKs
lol

Semantics. If the new walker is significantly bigger than a Dreadnought, to me it's a "mini-Titan".

But it's not significantly bigger than a Dread. What even gives you the idea that it would be? It's somewhere between Termy and Dreadnought sized or, at least, every thing I've read about it pegs it as such.

H.B.M.C. wrote:But it's not significantly bigger than a Dread. What even gives you the idea that it would be? It's somewhere between Termy and Dreadnought sized or, at least, every thing I've read about it pegs it as such.

Kind of like war jacks then?

Maybe? Look, as I said, I haven't seen it, I've only read about it and I know what it's armed with/what options it has. Believe me, I wish I had seen a picture so I could just end this silly "Is it a Knight-Titan???" nonsense once and for all, but I haven't.

All I can report is what I know, and what I know is that the description of this unit (combined with the rumoured statline) in no way indicates anything above Dread-sized.

I'm not disagreeing, simply conjecturing along with the others, but how could it both fit a Terminator and all those weapons without looking ridiculous at less-than-Dread sized? I would hope at the very least it'd be like a Penitent Engine in scale--kinda lanky and long, but to be otherwise would make it a very dumpy, squat model.

Just Dave wrote:The comparable power of the Grey Knights, compared to that of a bog-standard Henchman would be more in line with the BACKGROUND COMPARABLE ABILITY OF AN ASTARTES> NORMAL HUMAN.

Actually, the biggest problem is that WS3 BS3 S3 T3 Guardsmen are beefy ubermenschen Arnold types. And their plastics are at least a half-head too tall.

Downpower Guardsmen, and everybody benefits.

sourclams wrote:I'm not disagreeing, simply conjecturing along with the others, but how could it both fit a Terminator and all those weapons without looking ridiculous at less-than-Dread sized? I would hope at the very least it'd be like a Penitent Engine in scale--kinda lanky and long, but to be otherwise would make it a very dumpy, squat model.

Who says there is a Terminator inside? It's piloted by a PAGK, not a Terminator*.



*From what I've read, again remembering that I haven't seen the model.

Any idea on what the Paladin squad can take upgrade wise/ what comes default?

Paladin weapons/upgrades costs?:

Force Halberds
Nemesis Deamon Hammers
Pair of Nemesis Falcions
Nemesis Warding Stave
Psycannon
Incinerators
Psylencers
Apothecary (75pts upgrade or add apothecary? in other words is it 75pts for one or 130 (55+75) pts im assuming 75)
Banner of Brotherhood
Entire unit can have psybolt ammunition
Any model can make any weapon Master Crafted at +5 pts per weapon. (5pts)

I hope the model is good. Honestly I can see so many lazy/stupid ways for GW to make a Dreadknight model that it seems more likely that it will be boring than cool.

If the cronos engine (anyone seen it yet?) can get a hopefully cool looking model then I have faith in GW giving us a good looking dreadknight.
Buth then after that chibihawk I have second doubts.

As for size, it really ought to be bigger then a dread since it is far more powerful and the low point cost kind of imply at least that it should be hard to hide from all the lascannons it will draw to itself.
A use for this model might actually be as a AT magnet to let that lone landraider survive more then one turn since the dreadknight can take far more punishment.

Also, in an amazing display of irony instead of trying to argue against any of my points you ignore them, following the spirit of your own attack post. You hereby earn best hypocrite of the day.

Think that one goes to Just Dave for ignoring what I write while simultaneouslyl having the stomach to reply to my posts and bash me. I cant make that one go around

Actually, the biggest problem is that WS3 BS3 S3 T3 Guardsmen are beefy ubermenschen Arnold types. And their plastics are at least a half-head too tall.

Is there somewhere amongst the rules a statline for "normal" humans, like civvies?



Does anyone have a knowledge of what models will be in the first wave GK release?
Will there be one big release or several waves like with the DE and SM lines?

Are the psycannon stats 1005 confirmed or is the S7 4shot rending statline just a rumor?
Also, any news on what an incinerator will do? I heard somewhere those will be free upgrades (replacing a force weapon, a stormbolter and 1A apparently make then free)

sourclams wrote:I'm not disagreeing, simply conjecturing along with the others, but how could it both fit a Terminator and all those weapons without looking ridiculous at less-than-Dread sized? I would hope at the very least it'd be like a Penitent Engine in scale--kinda lanky and long, but to be otherwise would make it a very dumpy, squat model.

Regardless if it's squat/big;

Take a Grand Master
Give D3 units Scout/CounterAttack/etc
Take 3 DreadKnights with teleporters
Give them scout
First turn gak storm

ph34r wrote:
Half of your argument can be safely discarded...
So after we cut away the 3/4 of your argument that are useless...

wait, what?
and ageofegos..lol...youve already discovered a type of spam, a deathstar unit and an evil unit-combo, before the codex is even released.

Pyriel- wrote:Are the psycannon stats 1005 confirmed or is the S7 4shot rending statline just a rumor?

The people providing the current wave of rumors have no access to the wargear details. So in this case, people are using the Blood of Kitten (and Stinger's) stats since everything else seems extremely similar.

As for models, Stickmonkey said that we'd see PAGK, TAGK, Storm Raven (ended up getting released earlier!), and Dreadknight (at the time just "large plastic kit") in plastic. For the metal blisters, he listed: New Stern, some kind of Chaplain (Brotherhood Champion it seems now), a Justicar upgrade character (this would be Thawn now), a Paladin upgrade character (No idea who that'd match; Draigo maybe?), an Inquisitor of some kind, and two unknowns. I don't have much faith in his rumors when it comes to codex-content, but I do think he's more reliable about kits.; and looking at the newest rumors, it seems like he was right.

And since we're talking about the shape of the Dreadknight, BoK described it as a cross between a Talos and Karamazov. Go wild with your imagination!

But it's not significantly bigger than a Dread.

Are we going to argue about the meaning of "significantly" now? No we're not. At least I'm not.

What even gives you the idea that it would be?

I'll never tell, on this forum that is.

That doesn't mean I'm correct about this, unlike some people I'm not thumping my chest and claiming to know everything because in this case I don't have as much info as I have had on some other things, which is to say I don't know someone who has seen it nor have I seen it myself. But I don't see the point in something slightly larger than a Terminator and smaller than a Dreadnought. Doesn't seem to fill any niche like the new larger kits the past few years have done. Something larger than a Dreadnought, on the other hand, could command a good price like the Stormraven and get everyone excited about owning one, or three. So on top of the things I'm not sharing here, a larger kit also makes more sense from a marketing standpoint. Large kits are in: Baneblade, Stompa, Valkyrie, Stormraven, Hellpit Abomination, Giant Spider, etc. Who the hell needs a "giant Terminator" or "mini-Dreadnought"? I guess if they are trying to sell something in squad quantities, then a larger, more expensive Terminator could be a winner for GW assuming people like it enough to buy it in quantity. Terminators are hard enough to sell at $50 US per box, how much will squads of giant Terminators cost? It seems nuts. Something between a Dreadnought and a small Knight Titan on the other hand, how many people would be drooling to buy one of those?

As long as the Dreadknight doesnt turn out like this...




... I'll be happy.

A ranged dreadknight sounds completely badass and seems to be one of the near perfect ways for anti-horde. Im not to sure about close combat oriented ones ( if you can even have an "oriented" dreadknight) because its likely a dreadknight in close combat will suffer the same problems as wraithlords, those being getting tarpitted till turn 5 by a bunch of IG and a commissar and the like. Having a Str 7 fast firing weapon mounted on an MC (are dreadknights relentless?) is going to be awesomesauce, and then you have what is rumoured to be a souped up inferno cannon in the form of the "super incinerator" and you have one hell of an awesome unit.

Couple that with the *chance* [see: improbable possibility] that these things can teleport 30 no scatter once per game and you can really ruin any light vehicle's / badly placed large unit of light infantry's / devastator squad's day.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sidenote: I am thinking these GK are going to suffer from some serious "Divide and Conquer" tactics, would it be better to walk them through the enemies list together, try and hold objectives or go for killpoints, split them up or what? I think target priority is going to play a huge roll in the survival of our beloved GK.

I for one know I be fielding at least 1 storm raven, 1 dreadnought, and 5 paladins. IDK if I will go for draigo, he seems cheese, ill try him out though. I think my FIXED HQ (not to jump the gun here ) will be the Champion, he seems cool and not to costy points wise. Failing him, (ignoring Stern here because I dont know his stats or points and he could turn out to be an uberman) I will probably go with one of the customizable HQs.


I have high hopes that the Ordo Xenos inquisitor is in, he would probably have the most badass weapons like hellfire rounds and suspensors and stuff. Im excited

But it's not significantly bigger than a Dread. What even gives you the idea that it would be? It's somewhere between Termy and Dreadnought sized or, at least, every thing I've read about it pegs it as such.

Well, it would be illogical to have such a powerful MC, on pair with tyrants and carnies, to be smaller then a dread...that does absolutely nothing in comparison.
Not saying you are wrong or speaking bs, just pointing out the lack of logic with making it smaller.

Also a smaller model is easier to hide and slightly less prone to DS mishaps and those will only be added bonuses to something that is already perceived as overpowered.

Take a Grand Master
Give D3 units Scout/CounterAttack/etc
Take 3 DreadKnights with teleporters
Give them scout
First turn gak storm

It just cant be allowed. Its to game breaking.
There must be something important we dont know yet.

The people providing the current wave of rumors have no access to the wargear details. So in this case, people are using the Blood of Kitten (and Stinger's) stats since everything else seems extremely similar.

As for models, Stickmonkey said that we'd see PAGK, TAGK, Storm Raven (ended up getting released earlier!), and Dreadknight (at the time just "large plastic kit") in plastic. For the metal blisters, he listed: New Stern, some kind of Chaplain (Brotherhood Champion it seems now), a Justicar upgrade character (this would be Thawn now), a Paladin upgrade character (No idea who that'd match; Draigo maybe?), an Inquisitor of some kind, and two unknowns. I don't have much faith in his rumors when it comes to codex-content, but I do think he's more reliable about kits.; and looking at the newest rumors, it seems like he was right.

And since we're talking about the shape of the Dreadknight, BoK described it as a cross between a Talos and Karamazov. Go wild with your imagination!

Ah, thanks for the summary, appreciate the effort.

Something larger than a Dreadnought, on the other hand, could command a good price like the Stormraven and get everyone excited about owning one, or three.

A metal model would also be expensive and very cheap to produce giving a good profit.
Look at the SW wolf riding IC. Imagine if it was given dreadknight stats, people would buy it like crazy and it aint cheap.


As for the psycannons I dont really know what to believe, S7 with rending seems ok but 4 shots seems silly.
Then again 20 per psycannon meaning the mini looses 1A, a force weapon and a stormbolter might do that justice.

With a S6 rending there is at least an AV precedence. Assault cannons are better then lascannons at cracking heavy armour, imagine adding 1S to an assault cannon and you are up in the ridiculous power level heaven. The AP will also be interesting to see. It definitely cannot have AP3 or else this will be an ever spammed super gun giving the word "boring" a new meaning.

Pyriel- wrote:Well, it would be illogical to have such a powerful MC, on pair with tyrants and carnies, to be smaller then a dread...that does absolutely nothing in comparison. Not saying you are wrong or speaking bs, just pointing out the lack of logic with making it smaller.

What I'm saying is it is not bigger than a Dread, or at least its description doesn't make it sound that much more than a PA Marine riding around in a big Terminator. And I'm trying to put this 'Knight-Titan' nonsense to bed.

Pyriel- wrote:Also a smaller model is easier to hide and slightly less prone to DS mishaps and those will only be added bonuses to something that is already perceived as overpowered.

And? Since when has that ever mattered to the people who make the models or the rules?

Here's the most reasonable explanation I can think of for the "Dreadknight".

It's a Terminator-grade Grey Knight who's been voluntarily entombed within a Dreadnought.

'Cept it's not a Terminator.

Actually the D3 can be given to any walker of MC in the list, not henchmen tho.

The champion special character (Castellan) he makes purifier squads troop, and he is a brotherhood champion with 2 wounds for only 50pts more than a brotherhood champion.

And? Since when has that ever mattered to the people who make the models or the rules?

Calm down, I´m not debating or refuting you. I was merely pointing out some logical/illogical things. I´m sure you are right about what you heard and it is smaller then a dread but this thread is kinda for discussing things so...

He didn't say Terminator, he said Terminator-grade. Meaning someone with the experience and skill to wear Tactical Dreadnought Armor, but has instead given himself over to pilot a Nemesis Dreadknight instead.

Obviously you know more about the hows and whys then we do, but I just wanted to clarify.