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...are the finest and bravest warriors in 40k? And most capable race when it comes to warfare?

This question regards all Humans ( Marines, Guard, Sisters, Navy, PDF... ). So, waht do you think?

If you're looking for a fair fight, then yes. The problem comes where most of the races in 40k don't fight fair.

No. And Marines aren't human.

coolyo294 wrote:No. And Marines aren't human.

Define No. And you are right - Space Marines are superHUMANS's...

There are many races that are much better at fighting then Humans.

coolyo294 wrote:There are many races that are much better at fighting then Humans.

Like?

Dark Eldar. Space Marines. Eldar. Orks. Tyranids. Chaos Space Marines. Demons.

Yeah, but you have to admit they are the bravest when it comes to fighting the things in the 40k universe, heck I doubt many people today could do what the armies of Imperium does.

coolyo294 wrote:Dark Eldar. Space Marines. Eldar. Orks. Tyranids. Chaos Space Marines. Demons.

Space Marine aldo Super-Human are still Humans. And they fight for Humanity not themselves.

Dark Eldar don't fight - they loot and raid.
Chaos Space Marines are also Humans ( Super Humans but still - Humans ).
Eldar also loot and raid - they don't wage wars.


Tyranids, Orks are the only one who can effecievly fight Humanity. Still, Human military tactics and strategies defeat them countless times. Because of all those races - none of them exceed at warfare, they just fight - without reason, logic, strategy or ordinance.

So, you are basicly saying that there races ( Chaos Space Marines are Humans ) are better fighters than a Marine and much brave then Guardsman or fateful then Sister?
And that they are specialist in warfare more then Humans?

P.S. I am disappointed - you forgot Necrons

Phantom wrote:Yeah, but you have to admit they are the bravest when it comes to fighting the things in the 40k universe,

Of course they are. The commissars are just for show.

Yes. A Chaos Space Marines, (Not human, nor do they fight for humanity) is better then an Imperial Marine because of experience and the blessings of Chaos. A CSM is braver then a Guardsmen because he has no fear. And a CSM is as devoted to his Gods as much as a Sister is devoted to the Emperor.

They aren't the most efficient, skilled, brave, or physically capable. Their advantages are in numbers and firepower.

I think the Imperial Guard are probably the bravest in the galaxy considering what they have to fight against being regular humans.

The Space Marines are awesome warriors of humanity.

I think the Imperium is the shiz.

Space Marines are superHUMANS's

They can't breed to produce fertile offspring. Since they aren't a species they aren't humans. They aren't even superhumans. They're a genetic experiment that starts from a human base.

Anyway, the real thing is that humans are winning because they have numbers (until some more hive fleets show up) and they're mostly defending.

Dark Eldar don't fight - they loot and raid.
Chaos Space Marines are also Humans ( Super Humans but still - Humans ).
Eldar also loot and raid - they don't wage wars.

Tyranids hunt, they don't wage wars (imagine fighting a pride of lions that are trying to eat you).
Orks wage waaaaaaaghs, not wars.

Point is, it's all war no matter how you look at it as far as we're concerned. Looting and raiding is a war tactic, not just straight on WWI style trench warfare.

They have dedicated moral officers, given the powers to execute to inspire bravery. Uncountable numbers flee battles or turn themselves over to Chaos in fear, and many do it simply for their own survival. Are they the bravest? Not so sure about that. Tau dont exactly have a record of running away in panic, or giving themselves up, and I'm sure there are thousands of other sapient species that fight the innumerable horrors without bending.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ail-Shan wrote:

Space Marines are superHUMANS's

They can't breed to produce fertile offspring. Since they aren't a species they aren't humans. They aren't even superhumans. They're a genetic experiment that starts from a human base.

Anyway, the real thing is that humans are winning because they have numbers (until some more hive fleets show up) and they're mostly defending.

They're humans that have had their fertility taken away due to extensive augmentation. No infertile creature has been created as there has been no reproductive cycle to create them, outside of their organs, which are merely implants. A Space Marine is simply a heavily augmented human.

Uh.... guys, I thought that Orks and Tyranids have numbers...

So do humans.

iproxtaco wrote:Tau dont exactly have a record of running away in panic, or giving themselves up

And when Tau face full Ork WARGH or full Tyranid invasion, or Chaos Invasion at that matter?

They're humans that have had their fertility taken away due to extensive augmentation

I thought they went under extensive genetic engineering as well, basically turning them into something new. If so, a better analogy would probably be a comparison between a dog and a wolf. They're both very similar, but they are distinctly different and are different sub-species. So different sub-species then, still branching out beyond direct humanity.

If not, I should go read more backstory.

No infertile creature has been created as there has been no reproductive cycle to create them

Aren't ligers infertile yet able to be born naturally? Same with mules.

And numbers are the Orkz advantage, as well as their stupid fast reproductive cycle, ability to manufacture weapons from scrap, and their durability and strength. Tyranids obvious advantages are numbers and their ability to adapt to near any threat. Humans have advantages in their easily manufactured technology and their numbers, which adds weight of fire.

I think it all depends on the individual, not the whole.

But if I had to choose, it would be Necrons.

They have the most experience in battle (1.000.000+ years)
The most advanced & the most devastating technology (Fluff wise, a Gauss Flayer can punch through a Land Raider)
They do not feel fear (or any other emotion whatsoever)
They are practically immortal & there is more of them then you think.

So yeah, Necrons are the best warriors in the 41st Millennium. The only way to get rid of them is to bomb their Tomb Worlds (preferably with Exterminatus & that is the Imperiums final resort, so what does that say about Crons?).

Finest no. Bravest except for the marines, the sisters and some IG regiments no. About the capability in war... To measure that you have to take in consideration the available resources(which include men power, gear/technology, supplies etc... ), kill - death ratio(which is affected by the following factors - the use of terrain, tactis, morale,training,experience etc...). I thought of writing about each army in 40k but it is going to take me a lot of time and I don't want to do that right now.

Ail-Shan wrote:

They're humans that have had their fertility taken away due to extensive augmentation

I thought they went under extensive genetic engineering as well, basically turning them into something new. If so, a better analogy would probably be a comparison between a dog and a wolf. They're both very similar, but they are distinctly different and are different sub-species. So different sub-species then, still branching out beyond direct humanity.

If not, I should go read more backstory.

I consider the Astartes Organs and the human to be separate. The human is simply implanted with the organs to "upgrade" him. Genetic engineering is referenced in some sources, and not in others, but it wouldn't have any effect on them. No reproductive cycle has been carried out to transform this human into an Astartes. There is no gestation cycle, there are no parents, and no combining of genetic information to create an entirely new being.

No infertile creature has been created as there has been no reproductive cycle to create them

Aren't ligers infertile yet able to be born naturally? Same with mules.

I meant that in the context of the Space Marine. There has been no reproductive cycle to create a new organism.

The space marines are humans. Enough with the off-topic.

Dark Eldar don't fight - they loot and raid.
Chaos Space Marines are also Humans ( Super Humans but still - Humans ).
Eldar also loot and raid - they don't wage wars.

Eldar don't loot and raid.They just don't rage war in the simplistic one-minded fashion of the humans.

I would prolly say Tau were higher than Humans in Bravery.

Before Cao starts on "They haven't fought anything".

they HAVE fought Daemons (they think They killed Tzeentch)
They HAVE fought Tyranids (And won! read Shadowsun's Bio)
They HAVE fought Orkz (And won! Once again, see our good Friend O'Shassera's Bio. Page 46 of the Tau Empire Codex)
They HAVE fought Necrons (Alongside Ultramarines)

The only time they ever turned tail (that I remember, may be wrong on this since I haven't read much fluff in a while) Is when Captain Ventris threatened to blow up Pavonis if they didn't leave.

And on the most skilled: Eldar say hi!

IMO, for the Most brave, I'd prolly say Eldar on Both accounts, but Humans aren't high up there. Remember, for all 1,000,000 Space marines and all however many Sisters of Battle, there are trillions of Guardsmen. The ratio of Space marines to Guardsman is prolly 1:1,000,000 a tleast

Bookwrack wrote:

Phantom wrote:Yeah, but you have to admit they are the bravest when it comes to fighting the things in the 40k universe,

Of course they are. The commissars are just for show.

Speaking of which, I wonder...

If you have a powerblob made from 3 squads, each with a commissar included, do you remove three sergeants - one for each commissar - or just one, when you start to run away?

Iur_tae_mont wrote:I would prolly say Tau were higher than Humans in Bravery.

Before Cao starts on "They haven't fought anything".

they HAVE fought Daemons (they think They killed Tzeentch) That game was realistic as in DoW my Tau Fire Warrior killed Eldar Avatar in cc....
They HAVE fought Tyranids (And won! read Shadowsun's Bio) One word: Macragge, one more: Tarsis Ultra
They HAVE fought Orkz (And won! Once again, see our good Friend O'Shassera's Bio. Page 46 of the Tau Empire Codex) One word again: Armageddon
They HAVE fought Necrons (Alongside Ultramarines) Damnos, nuff said... And Tau retreated from that planet...

The only time they ever turned tail (that I remember, may be wrong on this since I haven't read much fluff in a while) Is when Captain Ventris threatened to blow up Pavonis if they didn't leave. Kronus, Kaurava, Nimbosa, Zeist...

And on the most skilled: Eldar say hi! Grey Knights say: hi!

IMO, for the Most brave, I'd prolly say Eldar on Both accounts Hit and run is not brave at all. Only brave Eldar are Ilyden , but Humans aren't high up there. Remember, for all 1,000,000 Space marines and all however many Sisters of Battle, there are trillions of Guardsmen. The ratio of Space marines to Guardsman is prolly 1:1,000,000 at least Yeah, ordinary guys facing all that galaxy can throw at them sound so easy to handle...

Dark Eldar are to intelligent to need a "fair" fight. why fight the foe face to face when you can confuse and crush them?


Wolf

Brother Coa wrote:Dark Eldar don't fight - they loot and raid.
Eldar also loot and raid - they don't wage wars.

Foolish human - we wage wars, simply not in the narrow, contrived meaning of the word which you use.