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How do you guys use kharn? going solo? with a squad? if with it, which unit?

I'm building a tourney list with him and 9 zerks on a rhino, statistically he should kill 1 zerk and those are 21 points that would hurt my decision, i don't want to even imagine what if he got 2-4 1's on "to hit", however sending kharn solo to charge your avg marine squad w/powerfist, i can see him getting instakilled and taking only around 5 marines with him, if joined with the zerks they would probably wipe the squad before the PF hits kharn which would save him for another assault, still i'm kinda scared of the probability of him killing his zerk bfies.

Going with a squad, that way he absolutely kills EVERYTHING!

Ive faced a player who feilded him with 20 zerkers on foot. I stayed away long enough for prism blasts to kill the squad but it took a fair share of my infantry with it :(

In the past I've had him kill 4 of my models in a single turn, but that hasn't stopped me taking him. Consider putting him in a transport with some regular marines, that way the occasional roll of a 1 only costs you 15 points, rather than 21.

Be delicate how you place him within an assault. If you can put him on the far side of a PF/TH then do that have have one of your spare zerkers engage that model so it won't shift to him for defender's reaction.

I prefer to field him with zerker's for fluff and because they benefit the most from being in CC. It sucks to lose guys to his
"Betrayer" rule, but i think you'll get more kills overall and more bang for your buck with the zerkers and driving them up in a Rhino or LR.

I Feel Kharne meshes great with Generic CSM's he keeps them from being "too" killy. While a squad of berserkers on their own can handle most things in CC and don't need the big guy

If you put him with regular marines, he loses fearless. A bad round of combat and he can be run down. Fear of the darkness, tank shock, PBS, all can ruin you.

Run him in a transport but have him get out of a different door than the rest of the squad so that he is on his own and unattached to anyone else. You can them have him still assault the same squad as his buddies, but won't be attached to them and as such, can't kill them.

He is a boss. Be sure to keep him away from fists and such though, as he can't take a punch. He is probably the only truly points efficient SC in the Chaos Dex. If Abby didn't poke himself in the eye 1/6 rounds of combat, he'd be fantastic.

Put him in a unit of possessed. They get the +5 invul.

Reecius wrote:If you put him with regular marines, he loses fearless. A bad round of combat and he can be run down. Fear of the darkness, tank shock, PBS, all can ruin you.

Run him in a transport but have him get out of a different door than the rest of the squad so that he is on his own and unattached to anyone else. You can them have him still assault the same squad as his buddies, but won't be attached to them and as such, can't kill them.

Yeah, thats exactly why i fear on attaching him to a CSM squad, don't want him getting sweep advanced or running from shots.

On the betrayer thingie i though it hits one of your units engaged in the same combat, doesn't matter if he is attached or not, at least that'w how i remember the wording, he hits a friendly unit engaged in the same combat.

Nope only his squad if he's with one, as others have said run him with regular CSMs, just charge spare marines into the PF models while kharn plows through the rest of the squad.

Alternatively, spilt him just before the combat, only problem is if he kills the entire squad he's on his own

Kharn's statline is pretty incredible, and he can really do a lot of damage by himself.

If he goes in with berzerkers, then it is often overkill and a liability, so I often send him into close combat by himself. If a unit does not have a power fist, then Kharn can be a real problem to deal with.

MikZor wrote:

Alternatively, spilt him just before the combat, only problem is if he kills the entire squad he's on his own

Yeah, that's the downside. He then eats a missile to the face and earns a one way trip back to the warp!

He is a monster though. He will chop damn near anything in half, I love using him.

Well if it works as you guys say that it i dettach him he wont kill my zerks its def on my list, still i'm a little confused with the rule. Sorry if i make emphasis on this but since i migh use it in a tourney don't want to drop into an argument, the codex says:

"resolve the hits on a random friendly unit engaged in the same combat, as if they were hit by the enemy, using Kharn's weapons and profile. If there are no other units in the same combat as kharn, these attacks simply miss"

Kharn does not belong with Berserkers. He isn't any more use at killing what they can already kill.

Kharn's best squad to go with is Thousand Sons. He keeps them from getting blown away in assault. They keep him from safe from opposing power fists by keeping it pinned down with their toughness. They also get to occasionally ignore his tendency to hit them.

DarknessEternal wrote:Kharn does not belong with Berserkers. He isn't any more use at killing what they can already kill.

Kharn's best squad to go with is Thousand Sons. He keeps them from getting blown away in assault. They keep him from safe from opposing power fists by keeping it pinned down with their toughness. They also get to occasionally ignore his tendency to hit them.

Somewhere, out in the warp, Khorne is crying about this heresy.

DarknessEternal wrote:Kharn does not belong with Berserkers. He isn't any more use at killing what they can already kill.

Zerkers have many attacks but only the skull champ has PW or PF. So, against well-armored targets, zerkers are not very effective. Kharn comes in with a ton of power attacks that hit on 2+. That is a big difference. Also, the skull champ usually has a PW rather than a PF, for fear of dying before he can respond, so zerkers are usually not that great against vehicles. Kharn rolls 2d6 for penetration, so he helps them with that as well.

Kharn's best squad to go with is Thousand Sons. He keeps them from getting blown away in assault. They keep him from safe from opposing power fists by keeping it pinned down with their toughness. They also get to occasionally ignore his tendency to hit them.

Sorry, that makes no sense. Kharn is a monster in CC. The last thing you should be doing with him is babysit overpriced shooting units that have trouble moving (slow and purposeful). The last thing TS should be doing is assaulting. Either way, that is one of the worst combos ever.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Kharn does not belong with Berserkers. He isn't any more use at killing what they can already kill.

Zerkers have many attacks but only the skull champ has PW or PF. So, against well-armored targets, zerkers are not very effective. Kharn comes in with a ton of power attacks that hit on 2+. That is a big difference. Also, the skull champ usually has a PW rather than a PF, for fear of dying before he can respond, so zerkers are usually not that great against vehicles. Kharn rolls 2d6 for penetration, so he helps them with that as well.

Kharn's best squad to go with is Thousand Sons. He keeps them from getting blown away in assault. They keep him from safe from opposing power fists by keeping it pinned down with their toughness. They also get to occasionally ignore his tendency to hit them.

Sorry, that makes no sense. Kharn is a monster in CC. The last thing you should be doing with him is babysit overpriced shooting units that have trouble moving (slow and purposeful). The last thing TS should be doing is assaulting. Either way, that is one of the worst combos ever.

I pity you, you've obviously never had the pleasure of loading 8 Thousand Sons, a Khorne Daemon Weapon Chaos Lord, and Kharn in a Land Raider. Overkill is your greatest ally.

would it be better to just have 2 chaos lords with mark of khorne and daemon weapon? Isnt that up to 17 attacks on the charge for each lord? attach them to min-size berserker squads or something..

Well this topic is about Kharn after all...

Necrontyr40k wrote:
Sorry, that makes no sense. Kharn is a monster in CC. The last thing you should be doing with him is babysit overpriced shooting units that have trouble moving (slow and purposeful). The last thing TS should be doing is assaulting. Either way, that is one of the worst combos ever.

There's no babysitting going on. Thousand Sons keep Kharn away from hidden power fists better than anything else can manage. It doesn't take long for Kharn alone to wipe out a squad if their only weapon that can hurt him are tied up elsewhere.

Justus wrote:

I pity you, you've obviously never had the pleasure of loading 8 Thousand Sons, a Khorne Daemon Weapon Chaos Lord, and Kharn in a Land Raider. Overkill is your greatest ally.

Then explain to me how this works. TS's primary strength is the AP3 on their rapid fire weapons, which they cannot fire at something and then assault it. Kharn and the lord are CC monsters that will only get slowed down by slow and purposeful of TS. What do you do with this 800-pt build that is even marginally efficient? Do you just get the TS to absorb the friendly fire hits from Kharn? That is a very expensive cushion.

I think the idea is that the Thousand Sons make it too dangerous to leave them alone, but you can't assault them because of Kharn. Of course, that's not actually true and you can safely ignore them knowing that ever present cover will protect you from the Sons and Kharn will never reach assault voluntarily while he's shackled to them.

If you want a more resilient meatshield, then you probably want to look at either Terminators, Chaos Marines with the MoT, or Possessed. Any of these could absorb Kharn's friendly fire without getting in the way of his need to get into assault.

Necrontyr40k wrote:

Justus wrote:

I pity you, you've obviously never had the pleasure of loading 8 Thousand Sons, a Khorne Daemon Weapon Chaos Lord, and Kharn in a Land Raider. Overkill is your greatest ally.

Then explain to me how this works. TS's primary strength is the AP3 on their rapid fire weapons, which they cannot fire at something and then assault it. Kharn and the lord are CC monsters that will only get slowed down by slow and purposeful of TS. What do you do with this 800-pt build that is even marginally efficient? Do you just get the TS to absorb the friendly fire hits from Kharn? That is a very expensive cushion.

Actually, the slow and purposeful does allow the thousand sons to shoot and assault since they get relentless. plus the fact that their HQ can insta kill an enemy (with the force weapon, or GoC) makes them a pretty damn scary unit. The only problem is the slow and purposeful, but that shouldn't be a problem considering if you move the land raider at a correct range Thousand sons may be overpriced, but they are a pretty good all round unit.

Kharn with thousand sons?

That may work for some people, although I wouldn't say it is at all points efficient. Thousands sons are pretty overpriced for what they do, and they don't want to be in combat.

You can also just run him solo if you want to. So longs at there is no fist around, he will wade through squads by his lonesome.

@Lord Yayula

Hmm, by the wording in the passage you quoted, then yes, he would still kill his own guys. I will check my book to see if it is worded the same way. I thought it was his squad, but I may be incorrect.

Tzeentch's plan is falling into place. He will soon have control of Khorne's favorite little World Eating Captain. Sorcery is your master!

Back to the topic though. I wouldn't run him solo, since you might resolve the combat on an unfavorable turn and then Kharn will eat a ML/PC/LC. I would keep him with a squad that is fearleass so he doesn't get run down and compliments him for whatever role you require of him. If you want him to protect a squad of TS from assaults then toss him there. It really comes down to what purpose do you want him to fulfill.

That being said Zerkers are solid for assaults (I like 8-9 if you want to toss another IC with them) and TS for survivability (however that could be a LONG assault).

Sadly Kharne's "misses" will hit ANY friendly unit engaged within the same assault. So splitting him off from anyone before the assault won't change his "Betrayer" swings, it will just leave him scared and alone at the end praying Khorne will keep him alive until he can rejoin a squad.

kyranzor wrote:would it be better to just have 2 chaos lords with mark of khorne and daemon weapon? Isnt that up to 17 attacks on the charge for each lord? attach them to min-size berserker squads or something..

Sadly on a Chaos Lord those 17 attacks hit on 3's and then wounds on 4's meaning only ~5 will wound, while kharn wounds on 3's, 2's if he charged making him a lot more killy for almost the same price as a lord with daemon weapon and MoK, besides he won't spend an assault phase staring at his weapon if he rolls a 1 on either dice.

Another idea i was toying around with was attaching him to CSM, or well maybe even zerks but the champ w/o upgrades so that a greater daemon could spawn from him, sure it's expensive but a greater daemon assaulting the same unit as kharn would give you 50% chance that those 1's will hit the daemon, he has 4++ making him awesome for saving kharn attacks and since he is T6, kahrns wounds him on 4's when charging 5's on normal hits, minimizing a lot it's dmg.

I may be wrong but if i remember from when i read his rules last time it does not matter if Kharn is not in a unit for his "1"s, if he is in the same melee as a friendly unit then they will lose guys on the roll of a 1 even if Kharn is not part of the squad. Just needs to be in the same assualt...again i may be wrong buy im like 95% sure thats what it is.