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Raven Guard.

All HQ choices have dual Lightning Claw upgrades and Jump packs.
Assaults as Troop choice with dual Lightning Claw upgrades.
Cheaper Scouts and Bikes
Cheaper Drop pods

Dark Angels...

I mean of those who only have the Vanillna codex, which one of those deserves a codex the most.

*cough* Blood Ravens *cough*

As awesome as the Blood Ravens are (just check my name for one) they really aren't 'special' in the sense that they really don't need a unique codex, they are just Vanilla Marines with lots of Librarians.

White Scars?

Salamanders - heck they had one in 3rd ed which was fine. 2 specials in a tac squad and TH/SS termies that could take a heavy flamer! as well as I3 all round + the mantle!

All of them, so they can get out of my book and we can have another Codex: Ultramarines.

Seriously though...Imperial Fists. The things they could do with a very much siege oriented chapter...Iron warriors for loyalists, anyone?

None of them. Ever.

SOFDC wrote:Seriously though...Imperial Fists. The things they could do with a very much siege oriented chapter...Iron warriors for loyalists, anyone?

Imperial Fists are the second-most codex-adhering of the founding Chapters.

So it'd pretty much be Codex: Ultramarines with less speed, more firepower.

TO answer the question asked - Iron Hands, cyborg marines, mysterious ties to the Adeptus Mech, flying skull things, potential for cool vehicles and models.

But honestly, none of them. They need a vanilla book with a balanced traits system ala 4th or lots of WD lists ala 3rd edition.

Avatar 720 wrote:None of them. Ever.

This. For the love of [insert appropriate authority figure], this. Space Marines are meant to have far smaller numbers than the Guard, but for some reason they get far more codices. Guard tactics are just, if not more diverse than Marines. Why don't they get at least two codices? GW needs to concentrate more on Xenos and Chaos. And before you point out that Marines are the most played, maybe other armies would be played more if GW gave them as much attention instead of pointing all new players to the Ultramarines section.

SOFDC wrote:Iron warriors for loyalists, anyone?

OK, have an army with no benefits whatsoever.

Avatar 720 wrote:None of them. Ever.

The only correct answer.

Rules for playing different chapters? Fine.

Entirely separate codices? No way.

Honestly? None of them truly *need* their own book, especially before they started getting all sorts of crazy wacky stuff simply to continue to justify their existence (blood talons, TWC's, Wolf Claws, etc) and massive bloat of special rules/wargear leading to the creep we've got today.

GK's are the only exception to this, so they're pretty much the only ones that really *need* their own book, as opposed to a set of traits or a sublist.






Basically, the others boil down to the following without getting too much into the details that typically change from edition to edition:

Blood Angels: "Sometimes we're Fighter than normal Marines!". FoC changes and weapons swaps on dreads and predator turrets, Red Thirst rule, Death Company (basically super buffed tacs and/or assault marines)

Space Wolves: "We're Fighter than normal Marines Too!" or "We're Better Just Because!". Mostly a couple wargear loadout and stat changes to differentiate "-claw" units, more capable Tac equivalents than other marines just for kicks. Often basically CSM:Undivided with ATSKNF.

Black Templars: "We're Fighter than normal Marines Also!" Mix scouts with tac squads and prefer close combat wargear over shooting wargear. They like Chaplains alot. Some random vows that could be portrayed in any number ways, simple or complex.

Dark Angels: FoC swaps for Bikes and Terminators.


Nothing about any of these requires a separate book to portray accurately, especially given how much the details change every time they're redone.

none deserve a codex in my book, they are generally overpowered as it is

No Chapters deserve their own specific Codex, but they will get them based upon tradition.

If I had my way, we'd have "archetypes".

Traits and sublists just are boring. There's only so much you can put into a book without making huge swathes of it unusable to sections of the book's playerbase.

Iron hands.

You make the marine players and the players wanting the mechanicus codex happy.

Or, you could make the next marine codex have all the chapter special options, such as iron hands get x, salamanders get x, ect ect. Bonuses for running mono-army or none for mixed. Same deal with a CHAOS LEGION codex...

Kid_Kyoto wrote:But honestly, none of them. They need a vanilla book with a balanced traits system ala 4th or lots of WD lists ala 3rd edition.

Completely Agree. A few of the ones that currently have their own codex (Dark Angels, maybe Black Templars) could easily suffice with a good traits system with and a list of special characters.

I really wish GW went back to the trait system, it worked great for Guard, as well.

The trait system was crap for representing real Chapters with a healthy amount of established fluff, and quite frankly it gets remembered far too much with rose tinted glasses.

It's great for DIY Chapters, but for Dark Angels or Templars or Blood Angels--it's terrible.

It was a decent system, but I meant a well revised one. What would be better would be the old chapter approved pages in a separate book, but I think that the traits system was certainly good enough, and better than the current lack of any customization like that.

I think that the current full codexes are unnecessary: the old codex: armageddon rules and dark/blood angels/space wolves mini-codexes were plenty enough.

Honestly I think there are enough MEQ books already, allowing most players a decent “counts as” option at representing a chapter. Cluttering the release schedule with more IoM codices would be an incredibly stupid move IMO.

I agree with Kid_Kyoto regarding WD lists. The WD lists during third were especially great at representing chapters and I’d like to see them come back (with the rules collated into an annual book).

There's no revising it.

That Trait system was terrible to represent Chapters.

To represent different Companies it works fine.

Dark Angels, Templars, Space Wolves, and Blood Angels all need their own rules. I also argue for Iron Hands...but they seem to be less and less relevant to GW of late.

DA have the Dark/Ravenwing and other non-codex ideas (interogator chaplains etc)

BT lack devastators and mix their scouts in with their tactical marines, as well as having no librarians and requiring the Emperors Champ

Space Wolves deliberately do not adhere to the codex astartes at all, and as such should always have separate units/rules

Blood Angles...they have enough stuff to make them different, but the current codex does a poor job of accentuating that.

To be honest, Astartes do not need another codex, GW should be introducing a Mechanicus codex, and bring back some love to the Lost and the Damned.

I'd vote Salamanders or Carcharodons, but I don't think Marines need another Codex. I'd like more (as in a lot more) special characters, and I'd be fine. The general consensus in the thread about too many MEQ armies is probably right, but for the love of all things holy, can we not do a Mechanicus army?

SOFDC wrote:Iron warriors for loyalists, anyone?

And what rules do the Iron Warriors have to make them different?

That's right - none.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:No Chapters deserve their own specific Codex...

Except Space Wolves (and, to an extent, if you count them as a regular Chapter, the Grey Knights). I think the Wolves are unique as to be considered apart from other Marine Chapters.

Kanluwen wrote:If I had my way, we'd have "archetypes".

I mostly agree here. I'd prefer it if the Black Templars Codex wasn't actually a Black Templar Codex and was more along the line of a 'Crusading Marine Chapter' Codex, giving a 'template' for the various crusading Chapters out there. 'Bike armies' would be another archetype, as armies of bikes aren't unique to the White Scars or Ravenwing. 'Terminator armies' would be another, as the idea that the Deathwing is the only group that shows up in Terminator armour when no one else ever does is just silly. And so on.

Six separate codices is more than enough Space Marine codices, thank you very much. We don't need any more. Therefore, I wholeheartedly vote for none.

SOFDC wrote:All of them, so they can get out of my book and we can have another Codex: Ultramarines.

Seriously though...Imperial Fists. The things they could do with a very much siege oriented chapter...Iron warriors for loyalists, anyone?

You could try the SM Siege List in IA10.

Kanluwen wrote:No Chapters deserve their own specific Codex, but they will get them based upon tradition.

If I had my way, we'd have "archetypes".

Traits and sublists just are boring. There's only so much you can put into a book without making huge swathes of it unusable to sections of the book's playerbase.

+1

H.B.M.C. wrote:

SOFDC wrote:Iron warriors for loyalists, anyone?

And what rules do the Iron Warriors have to make them different?

That's right - none.

Ah yes, but they should.