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No disagreement there.

Can we have rules for a Guard Regiment on roller blades with shuriken catapults and titans?

That would be awesome!

This goes out to a friend who lurks these forums...

Iron Hands, a first founding with little to no coverage, come on!

TO answer the question asked - Iron Hands, cyborg marines, mysterious ties to the Adeptus Mech, flying skull things, potential for cool vehicles and models.

But honestly, none of them. They need a vanilla book with a balanced traits system ala 4th or lots of WD lists ala 3rd edition.

^ this!

But if we can't have it that way the I would say Iron Hands for being enough different with the cybernetics bent to warrant a codex or a WD data sheet at least.

Legion of the Damned.

Raven Guard, of course.

There are enough already.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

I mostly agree here. I'd prefer it if the Black Templars Codex wasn't actually a Black Templar Codex and was more along the line of a 'Crusading Marine Chapter' Codex, giving a 'template' for the various crusading Chapters out there.

It is. Counts As.

'Counts As' misses the point completely.

All of the chapters put in a single book would be nice.

Nah, it would be terrible. Legion rules are the way forward for those who want differentiation between Chapters.

H.B.M.C. wrote:'Counts As' misses the point completely.

I'm curious as to how that is?
I am just interested in the development of this idea because I don't quite understand it fully. Trying to get where you are coming from with this, and where you are going.

Jeez, don't we have enough already?
But if I had to choose, I'd honestly say my DIY chapter. Too long to explain in detail so I'm not going to bother.

Basically BT with more fire and heavy armour.

Blood_Raven wrote:Raven Guard.

All HQ choices have dual Lightning Claw upgrades and Jump packs.
Assaults as Troop choice with dual Lightning Claw upgrades.
Cheaper Scouts and Bikes
Cheaper Drop pods

This.
They have a different way of fighting that doesn't match any of the other Marines.
And they were one of the founding chapters


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gaovinni wrote:All of the chapters put in a single book would be nice.

Yes, but it won't happen.
It'll be too big and require too much work. And if it does happen it'll be like 300 pages long and $150.

More marines. Yay.

Durza wrote:

Avatar 720 wrote:None of them. Ever.

This. For the love of [insert appropriate authority figure], this. Space Marines are meant to have far smaller numbers than the Guard, but for some reason they get far more codices. Guard tactics are just, if not more diverse than Marines. Why don't they get at least two codices? GW needs to concentrate more on Xenos and Chaos. And before you point out that Marines are the most played, maybe other armies would be played more if GW gave them as much attention instead of pointing all new players to the Ultramarines section.

The difference is that each chapter has unique styles and unit types. The guard still falls into just a few categories.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, but it won't happen.
It'll be too big and require too much work. And if it does happen it'll be like 300 pages long and $150.

Hardly, at least half the stuff is identical between them, much of the rest mere weapon swaps or minor stat variations, and the army special rules could be done via a relatively simple HQ upgrade package (upgrade your Captain to a Wolf Lord for +X pts, army gains Y and loses Z) or the like. The biggest issue would be covering all the SC's. Easily coverable as a 200p book smaller than many books for equivalent games (e.g. Flames of War Eastern Front or the like). No way it'd need to be anywhere near triple digits in cost.

Vaktathi wrote:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yes, but it won't happen.
It'll be too big and require too much work. And if it does happen it'll be like 300 pages long and $150.

Hardly, at least half the stuff is identical between them, much of the rest mere weapon swaps or minor stat variations, and the army special rules could be done via a relatively simple HQ upgrade package (upgrade your Captain to a Wolf Lord for +X pts, army gains Y and loses Z) or the like. The biggest issue would be covering all the SC's. Easily coverable as a 200p book smaller than many books for equivalent games (e.g. Flames of War Eastern Front or the like). No way it'd need to be anywhere near triple digits in cost.

But won't there be pages of fluff for each army, complete with special rules and chapter traits?

Chapter special rules are already encompassed on a single page in each book (right before the unit descriptions) which includes extraneous bits so could even be fit smaller, and many of them are simple USR's. The old Traits fit in what, 6 pages total?

Also, much of the fluff between these arme is shared, the first 2-6 pages of each one is the Horus heresy, and then there's the shared and minor variant units which can be described together rather easily, leaving plenty of room for several pages per major chapter (especially if they don't need to recopy the big timelines for each chatper and can just throw that sort of stuff online) and a couple pages of fluff for less renowned chapters.

Well, I'd say that first, all the non-Marine armies need a codex update for 5th (and Tyranids need another one as well).

Then, Xenos and non-loyalist SM armies should all get an expansion codex (Craftworlds, Speed Freaks, Catachans, Chaos Legions, unique Tomb Worlds, etc)

Next, all the forces that don't have a codex should get one (Lost and the Damned, Adeptus Mechanicus, Squats, Genestealer Cult, etc)

Then, once all of that is complete, we can talk about another SM codex. At that point, I'd vote Salamanders.

I always wonder why people want Salamanders to have their own codex...

They seem incredibly well represented by the Vanilla marine book, and Vulkan's special rules really exemplify their style of warfare.

In fact... most competitive Vanilla marine armies are salamanders armies and not Ultra Marine armies... So why would they be more deserving than any other chapter.

Anyway I agree. We have wayyyy to many special snowflake space marine chapters who have ridiculous naming conventions to try to justify them having their own book. Each one competing for the title of "most Eldar Avatar's Crumped!"

Space Marines are nice and all, and I have no problem with them being the flagship army. I just think that having >50% of the codex be loyalist space marines really hurts the game and removes a large amount of the potential depth.

I think the best solution would be one main Codex paired with some kind of GW-produced "Codex: Marine Chapters" adaption book (something like this), with sample chapter modifications included. To prevent manipulation of the rules, this probably wouldn't be allowed in tournaments (keeping the BTs, SWs, BAs and DAs, though, maybe?).

But anyway. CODEX: IRON HANDS FTQ.

Iron Hands! These guys need Terminator Sgts in all squads except JI obviously. And many, many Draeds!

Deadshot wrote:Iron Hands! These guys need Terminator Sgts in all squads except JI obviously. And many, many Draeds!

except their fluff very clearly states that these items, while highly venerated, are actually even rarer amongst the Iron Hands than other chapters.

Not any fluff I have read. I thought they would have easily crafted suits of TDA.

Already too many SPPEEIISSS MMAARIINNNZZZEESSSS!!!!

But if you really want something I would say the Salamaders earn one of their own, one very very flamy!!!!

IIRC reading the book Iron Hands (the last major piece of fluff I read about them) such things are actually rather rare.


EDIT: Equipment Shortfall (from 40k wiki)

The disastrous Drop Site Massacre on Istvaan V cost the Iron Hands many, if not most of their Dreadnoughts and suits of Terminator Armour. The limited number that remained became important relics to the Chapter, particularly the mighty Dreadnoughts who symbolise the epitome of the symbiosis of man and machine.

The various SM codeci were supposed to represent different organisational methods.
So basically only Vanilla, BT and SW make sense if you follow that theory...

Vaktathi wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Iron Hands! These guys need Terminator Sgts in all squads except JI obviously. And many, many Draeds!

except their fluff very clearly states that these items, while highly venerated, are actually even rarer amongst the Iron Hands than other chapters.

While this is correct, it is stated that they rever them more than any other chapter and so they often include them as sargeants to boost morale. It is however stated that they have many fewer than other chapters.

The Iron Hands revere the limited number of Terminator suits and Dreadnoughts that they possess, and treat them with the utmost respect and devotion. Entire squads of Terminators are rare, however, for the inspiration they create amongst the ranks is better employed when they act as leaders of individual squads. Sergeants will often wear Terminator Armor that is rumored to be physically bonded to them, and it is not uncommon for battle forces to be led by Dreadnoughts. The inspiration that their presence causes among the Iron Hands proves to be of more benefit when acting within these roles.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat440176a&categoryId=400028§ion=&aId=2500028

Blood_Raven wrote:As awesome as the Blood Ravens are (just check my name for one) they really aren't 'special' in the sense that they really don't need a unique codex, they are just Vanilla Marines with lots of Librarians.

I believe their should only be one space marine codex regardless...they are all just "space marines"

bombboy1252 wrote:

Blood_Raven wrote:As awesome as the Blood Ravens are (just check my name for one) they really aren't 'special' in the sense that they really don't need a unique codex, they are just Vanilla Marines with lots of Librarians.

I believe their should only be one space marine codex regardless...they are all just "space marines"

Nah. My dream is for GW to finalize a core ruleset (hopefully 6th edition). Then, they can release balanced codexes that never need updating.

Imagine a codex for each and every SM founding chapter, one for each craftworld, one for each hive fleet, one for each clan, etc.


A man can dream...