Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As my dumb title says, i want to ask questions about the Named HQ characters like Abbadon and Kharn for example, mainly what are they good at, how to play them, and if they are worth the points in comparison to the over-used Daemon Prince

im most interested in Kharn and Lucius, due to their rules which i need some help understanding (mostly Lucius's rules) and the fact they...have interesting Fluff about them

any help will be appriciated on this question, as i dont want to buy some modle i will never use.

Unfortunately for Lucius he needs to be in hand to hand by himself otherwise your opponent will throw all of their attacks into the squad he's with thus making his armor ability useless.

Kharn is definitely the most efficient choice in terms of cost to power ratio. Lucius, on the other hand, kind of sucks eggs, especially considering he costs more than Kharn.

Lucius is kind of tricky, but generally he should try to get in combat with non-powerweaponstuff as quickly as possible. preferably weak stuff that hits him on 5+ Kharn is not subtle at all. Just get him into combat with pretty much anything and he will make a mess of it. he should go alone too, though, (though until it is time to charge he should take protection in a unit) because otherwise he will slaughter his friends too. You can also use him to tease Tigurius or Njal the Stormcaller. Both should anyway ride a Rhino or something, for there is a lot of Basilisks, Battle Cannons and Demolisher Cannons out there.

Lucius used to be better, but he's still usable. Basically, fire his Doom Siren into the unit he's about to charge, followed by murder.

Kharn is the same, just skip the first step.

Kharn is the chuck norris of 40k. hands down. He'll get fisted easily though, so booo

yabadabbadon is ok but to expensive

Typhus can insta die

Fabulous Billy is useless as his ability is only for regular CSM

Abbadon is a beast if you know how to use him. S8 and 4 +1d6 attacks make him a true monster is you're willing to shell out a few points.

Kharne is what every Chaos Lord should be. He's easy enough, and frankly you need to ignore his Betrayer rule. He'll kill maybe 1 guy each assault phase, but he needs guys watching his back or he'll be over-run by redshirts, let alone Powerfists.

Lucious is a very interesting HQ, and I've wanted to run him for a very long time. He's got the stats of a dueler: high initiative, weapon skill, and reduces their attacks. And yet, he's also got great potential for clearing redshirts with his Doomsiren and armor. In fact, his armor makes him even better for hordes than the venerable Typhus.

Speaking of which, Typhus is a bit of a disappointment. There is so much right about him, but without Eternal Warrior he's an open topped Landraider. He'll kill anything and everything (except Walkers), and do so even better than Kharne, but he's also 50% more expensive and just as vulnerable to Powerfists.

Fabius Bile is great, but you have to love him more than the army, because there's only 1 list that he works in: CSM spam. At 2000+ points, his upgraded Marines are so much cheaper than cult marines that you can afford 2 or more extra squads. At 2000 points you can take 6 fully upgraded squads of CSM with points to spare for Predators or something. He lets you run horde marines too, with blocks of 20 marines raging across the board. And CSM are flexible enough to be viable without any kind of support too.

Who's next? Oh, no one's mentioned the Sorcerer Supreme. His problem is that none of our powers synergize. He isn't very good in close combat, his shooting is basically less potent than a Tzeentch Lord with Deathscreamer, and he isn't very durable. Though triple Gift spam is really damn hilarious.

HUUUURON. Same price as a Chaos Lord, but he gets Warptime and a Heavy Flamer. That's pretty damn cool. There's nothing amazing about him, but you get what you pay for.

Do I really need to talk about Abaddon? No. No, and I am going to bed.

Always pick Abbadon put him with a 4 man squad of termies in a land raider for dedicated transport, Make sure you have pairs of lightning claws on the termies with a mark of khorne on them and you will be giving 24 attacks on the charge.

Worried about tanks with this tactic, Dont worry you will have a land raider and then you have Abbadons (at highest roll) 10 Str 8 attacks which will rip apart most tanks.

Therefore I conclude that this tactic is ONE of the best in the codex.

Kharn: put him in a squad of 9 berserkers in a rhino with daemonic possession and you will be fine. (the many times I haven't and gets shot with a crack missile, and dying is plenty).

Lucius: only good at a meat shield towards other characters (you may think differently but this is just my general humble opinion of him).

Never put any character, named or otherwise, with Terminators. They take away his Fearlessness, making him vulnerable to all sorts of shinanigans. You do not want your 275 point character being escorted off the board by my Dreadnought because you wiffed his daemon weapon and I killed 3 Terminators.

DarkHound wrote:Never put any character, named or otherwise, with Terminators. They take away his Fearlessness, making him vulnerable to all sorts of shinanigans. You do not want your 275 point character being escorted off the board by my Dreadnought because you wiffed his daemon weapon and I killed 3 Terminators.

And... is that the only downside?

happygolucky wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Never put any character, named or otherwise, with Terminators. They take away his Fearlessness, making him vulnerable to all sorts of shinanigans. You do not want your 275 point character being escorted off the board by my Dreadnought because you wiffed his daemon weapon and I killed 3 Terminators.

And... is that the only downside?

Its the ONLY downside that matters.

DarkHound wrote:He isn't very good in close combat, his shooting is basically less potent than a Tzeentch Lord with Deathscreamer, and he isn't very durable.

What the hell is a Deathscreamer? That isn't in my Codex.

happygolucky wrote:

DarkHound wrote:Never put any character, named or otherwise, with Terminators. They take away his Fearlessness, making him vulnerable to all sorts of shinanigans. You do not want your 275 point character being escorted off the board by my Dreadnought because you wiffed his daemon weapon and I killed 3 Terminators.

And... is that the only downside?

My sternguard go "wheeeee!" as their drop pod descends to make you footslog across the field

into my vindicators



I'm throwing my 2cents behind kharne. For 165 he is a beast, I wish I could spend 165 on a chaos lord and get remotely what I get with Kharne. I'll echo the advice not to worry about him killing off his bodyguard, as he is only in power armor. The biggest downside to kharne is dieing to fists, but so does my Chaos lord! The only change that would make him better would be EW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

DarkHound wrote:He isn't very good in close combat, his shooting is basically less potent than a Tzeentch Lord with Deathscreamer, and he isn't very durable.

What the hell is a Deathscreamer? That isn't in my Codex.

Read under daemon weapons, look at the Tzeentch one.

If you really are that worried about Kharn's bodyguard, use possessed. They get a 5+ inv save. Keep them cheap and they aren't much more then a berzerker squad. And may be a bit less since you can't really buy them any equipment.

Sometimes, I wonder why people discount Typhus.

Sure, he can die to a fist, but then again, the only things that dont die to fists are your "epic" HQs.

He has, imo, great anti-horde. A tatic I have seen (against nids, IG, and orks) is taking Typhus, giving him some bodyguards (Termis, Zerkers, or some other CC unit, but with fewer models than normal) and charge into CC without him fighting or being in 2" range of as few enemy models as possible. The reason behind this is that during that first round of combat, if you placed him right, he will easily live while some of his meatshields die to either PWs or a ton of reg attacks, and at the end of the combat phase, the enemy force will pile into you into a nice tight group. Now this means on the next rounds of assault, it may not go your way and lets say you have Typhus and a couple models left in CC with the horde. This is good, this now means on your turn you can now use his pyschic powers to his fullest ability, then in that combat, swing with what you have left and win combat. Granted, this tactic is iffy but great when used correctly.

Kharn, always.

happygolucky wrote:Lucius: only good at a meat shield towards other characters (you may think differently but this is just my general humble opinion of him).

I'll have to disagree, but as you say, just opinions.

Jihallah wrote:Read under daemon weapons, look at the Tzeentch one.

Cheers, I never really bothered with the name; I just saw it was a bad weapon and left it be.

Abbadon and termies are BAD...failbadon WILL run. and you don't want 275p of awesome leaving a urin trail on your board.

Abyssel wrote:Abbadon and termies are BAD...failbadon WILL run. and you don't want 275p of awesome leaving a urin trail on your board.

With a LD of 10... nah I don't think so also at my club this unit is some peoples worst nightmare, especially in a land raider, also I may add if this is the only downside to the formation then Im still keeping it and I would advise it to anyone.

happygolucky wrote:

Abyssel wrote:Abbadon and termies are BAD...failbadon WILL run. and you don't want 275p of awesome leaving a urin trail on your board.

With a LD of 10... nah I don't think so also at my club this unit is some peoples worst nightmare, especially in a land raider, also I may add if this is the only downside to the formation then Im still keeping it and I would advise it to anyone.

Ld10 is the same as a 2+. I can, with my CSM, make that unit take 3 checks a turn without spending more resources than that thing is worth. It would take a couple turns, but you would fail and I would walk those 400 points off the board with a 35pt Rhino before they even got into close combat. Other armies, like Blood Angels and Dark Eldar, can produce 4 or 5 checks, all but guaranteeing the unit will be pinned or broken in a single turn. IG can easily reduce your Ld to 2, and then you're one Plasmacannon from taking the walk of shame.

so Abbadon or "Failbadon" need to be escorted by a fearless squad that is killy in CC, right?

so he needs to be with Bezerkers or Posessed so he doesnt run away for the... 14th time right?

i suppose we can also talk about if Abbadon is worth the 500+ points needed to use him the right way, but not for long because i want info in the OTHER named HQ guys. maybie we could talk about the other super expensive HQ, the one that can use 3 powers a turn and is more than a land raider, and the one i forgot the name of...