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I've just started DE and was wandering whether Lelith was effective and if so, what is the best way to use her for maximum effect?

She's not that good sadly, unless you're running a fluffy/fun list I'd avoid her.

The fact that she's S3 (maximum of S4 on the charge after gaining 2 pain tokens) means that, despite her tonne of attacks, she'll struggle against T4+ models.

If only she had combat drugs

I would actually say in the most general conceptually sense that Lelith is pretty darn good, though despite her fluff she's actually better at dealing with mobs and would tend to want to avoid amped up solo characters.

Now, in a more specific and driven competitive build she's still not bad, it's just there are quite a few options that do as good or better than her, and do so for less point expenditure, which basically relegates her downward on the competitive scale.

Let's just consider the important parts;

Lelith vs. MEQ - 11 attacks -> 7.3 hit -> 2.44 wounds

Lelith vs. MEQ w. Furious Charge - 11 attacks -> 7.3 hit -> 3.66 wounds

So, she's going to kill off about 2.5-3.5 Marines on the charge.

Archon/Succubus w. Agoniser - 2 dead Marines
Baron Sathypants - 0.925 dead Marines
Asdrubael Vect - 4.15 dead Marines

The above then gives you some idea of how she's stacking up versus other HQ choices. Now, only an idiot will actually try to claim Baron Sathypants is any good at all in assault versus MEQ, but people do seem to think he's for some reason an assault guy, and I just like to be able to mock him but we can see that for 73% more points you get about 150% damage increase via Lelith, even without FC, and that's a good value.

Comparing her to our supposed ultimate beatstick Vect, we can see she actually stacks up pretty functionally in a point for point comparison. He's wracking up about a 100% kill increase in the best case comparison yet the cost increase to Vect is 156%. Now, he *is* better versus special characters, and that needs to be considered, but clearly he and Lelith are vaguely in an appropriate cost arc.

So when you look at the other named ICs and want something that inflicts damage in h2h combat Lelith stacks up *very* nicely.

The thing that punishes Lelith is comparison to the cheaper HQs. The Succubus, at a saving of almost 100 points(!) will kill almost as much as Lelith, and actually will be slightly a better option as a dualist versus enemy beatstick ICs. Wooosh! Heck, the Archon can be cheaper than her and have a better overall survivability thanks to his Shadowfield.

So, Lelith has a special little nook, and has some nice little tricks via her hair and her ability to punish swarms, but she does have an awkwardly precarious position as far as her viability, and you have to understand what you're getting from her. She can be competitive, but as you build your list more and more focused on competitive play she starts to become a big question mark as to whether what she provides is worth the hefty point cost, since she does have a somewhat limited number of optimal assault targets.

Thor665 wrote:
The thing that punishes Lelith is comparison to the cheaper HQs. The Succubus, at a saving of almost 100 points(!) will kill almost as much as Lelith, and actually will be slightly a better option as a dualist versus enemy beatstick ICs. Wooosh! Heck, the Archon can be cheaper than her and have a better overall survivability thanks to his Shadowfield.

That's the sum of it.

Once upon a time, before the DE codex got destroyed, Lelith Hesperax was a terror, and the inspiration behind many a wych cult army.

Once upon a time, Lelith had a 2++ save, a retinue and couldn't be targeted, an agonizer, the ability to choose combat drugs.
Once upon a time, the wych cults she led were comprised of units of 5 wyches with two blasters each (5 points?) and an agonizer.
Once upon a time, ravager disintegrator cannons were STR7 AP2 small blast.

We gave up all that to get venoms, splinter cannons, and 5+ invulnerable saves on vehicles. Not a fair trade. :(

@Dash - Don't forget about the time when Archons (and Archites) could wuss slap Ghaz around and send him packin', now you're sorta happy if your HQ kills 3 MEQ a turn.

I've actually been pretty happy with Lelith to this point. She gets tied up with beasts like Hive Tyrant and helps the whole squad manage to take them down. First off she reduces the opponents attacks. Against a beast like that it is great. Just run her with Wyches and get another Shardnet/Impaler in there. Now you opponent has a hard time killing you, they will direct the attacks into Lelith who only takes one to kill, but they have to hit, wound, and hope you don't save with it. While that Tyrant is tied up, the rest of the army is doing what it does best. Razorwings blow apart the hordes before I assault them and can also fly around a put wounds on the big guys.

I haven't run my DE against Chaos or MEQ, so no opinion there, but I think she is a decent character with the right squad attached. One lesson learned though, don't separate her from the squad ever. She is not really all that killy- once she gets FNP and FC she is better, but is more of a upgrade for a squad of Wyches. Also, no real point of putting her anywhere else. Also, her other benefit is because of her sheer number of attacks- many opponents will try to avoid her and actually get in a bad spot against deadlier units... Just my 2 cents on them.

Cheers guys! Your advice is most appreciated.

I love using Lelith,i put her in a unit of 9 bloodbrides. I give the bloodbrides 3 hydragauntlets and put them in a raider and aim them for the biggest baddest unit and they have always come through for me.