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Read and behold, the wonder of scarabs.

Scarabs are a major part of anti-tank in the Necron army. Here is the math!


On a vehicle that has moved at combat speed, 4+ to hit.
3 scarabs = 3.75 armour value lost
4 scarabs = 5 armour value lost
5 scarabs = 6.25 armour value lost
6 scarabs = 7.5 armour value lost
7 scarabs = 8.75 armour value lost
8 scarabs = 10 armour lost
9 scarabs = 11.25 armour lost
10 scarabs = 12.5 armour lost
And boosted from spyders:
11 = 13.75 armour lost
12 = 15 armour lost
13 = 16.25 armour lost

On a vehicle that hasn't moved.
3 scarabs = 7.5 armour value lost
4 scarabs = 10 armour value lost
5 scarabs = 12.5 armour value lost
6 scarabs = 15 armour value lost
7 scarabs = 17.5 armour value lost
8 scarabs = 20 armour lost
9 scarabs = 22.5 armour lost
10 scarabs = 25 armour lost
And boosted from spyders:
11 = 27.5 armour lost
12 = 30 armour lost
13 = 32.5 armour lost

On a vehicle moving at cruising speed, 6+ to hit.
3 scarabs = 1.25 armour value lost
4 scarabs = 1.666666666666666666666666 armour value lost
5 scarabs = 2.0833333333333333333333 armour value lost
6 scarabs = 2.5 armour value lost
7 scarabs = 2.916666666666666666666 armour value lost
8 scarabs = 3.333333333333333333 armour lost
9 scarabs = 3.75 armour lost
10 scarabs = 4.1666666666666666666 armour lost
And boosted from spyders:
11 = 4.5833333333333333 armour lost
12 = 5 armour lost
13 = 5.416666666666666666 armour lost


As you can see the only safety from a scarab attack is to move, and move fast!

I'm just wondering here, how many points is a Scarab Swarm in the new codex?

Because to take down a LR, you need 10+ Tomb Spyders, which probably costs more than Tomb Spyders.

Chowderhead wrote:I'm just wondering here, how many points is a Scarab Swarm in the new codex?

Because to take down a LR, you need 10+ Tomb Spyders, which probably costs more than Tomb Spyders.

15.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Chowderhead wrote:I'm just wondering here, how many points is a Scarab Swarm in the new codex?

Because to take down a LR, you need 10+ Tomb Spyders, which probably costs more than Tomb Spyders.

15.

OK, so they aren't as point sink-y as I thought.

Gotta start going flat out with LR and Rhinos now...

Their price went up to 15, and the Spyder's price came down slightly. So if you had a block of 10 and a Spyder, you'd only be 80% of the price of a Landraider.

However, you don't need the Scarabs to kill the Landraider, or even come close. Dropping its armor by 4 points then hopping to another target is far more efficient. After all, who can't deal with AV10?

Not to mention that you can create more Scarabs with Spyders. I think that's just fantastic.

DarkHound wrote:Their price went up to 15, and the Spyder's price came down slightly. So if you had a block of 10 and a Spyder, you'd only be 80% of the price of a Landraider.

However, you don't need the Scarabs to kill the Landraider, or even come close. Dropping its armor by 4 points then hopping to another target is far more efficient. After all, who can't deal with AV10?

You mean they went down a point, right? I never saw someone who'd bother with scarabs with dispersion fields in the old dex.

The hidden beauty of all this Scarab nastyness is the fact that you auto-hit immobilized vehicles. I can see how that might be useful in an army whose main weapons auto-glance.

Sabet wrote:Read and behold, the wonder of scarabs.


As you can see the only safety from a scarab attack is to move, and move fast!

...or bring pie plates

Yes, scarabs are good against MEQ mech, but IG has the pie plates to absolutely wreck them turn one. Against DE they are pretty useless, since DE has low AV to start. Against Mechdar, I just don't see the new Cron dex being that strong overall (especially if the Edar bring a Nightspinner). Against Tau, between Tau's shooting and Flechettes, scarabs will not be much of a threat. Against Orks, scarabs pretty much suck, because Orks have the speed to assault out of Trukks/BWs to always get the charge, and Kanwall w/Lootas wil assure scarab death, usually form range.

This leaves Scarabs as the go-to choice for fighting MEQ armor, but their lack of points-effeiciency against Xenos/IG is glaring. For this reason, I do not see Triple-scarab + spider lists being a standard build. The cost too much for what they bring, when facing non-MEQ lists.

Sweet jesus that seems sweet.

If you can put down a night firght in the first turn and then open up with spiders you force your oponent to do something the next turn.

If you can make a konga line with 2-3 scarabs the spiders can make 5 scarabs and if each base is 2" and they can be 2" away from each other then that is a BIG jump in charge range. They also charge 12". This is just amasing!

Alerian wrote:

Sabet wrote:Read and behold, the wonder of scarabs.


As you can see the only safety from a scarab attack is to move, and move fast!

...or bring pie plates

Yes, scarabs are good against MEQ mech, but IG has the pie plates to absolutely wreck them turn one. Against DE they are pretty useless, since DE has low AV to start. Against Mechdar, I just don't see the new Cron dex being that strong overall (especially if the Edar bring a Nightspinner). Against Tau, between Tau's shooting and Flechettes, scarabs will not be much of a threat. Against Orks, scarabs pretty much suck, because Orks have the speed to assault out of Trukks/BWs to always get the charge, and Kanwall w/Lootas wil assure scarab death, usually form range.

This leaves Scarabs as the go-to choice for fighting MEQ armor, but their lack of points-effeiciency against Xenos/IG is glaring. For this reason, I do not see Triple-scarab + spider lists being a standard build. The cost too much for what they bring, when facing non-MEQ lists.

Against pie plates, scarabs get a 3+ cover save when in terrain. I heavily suspect that'll be the plan: hide in night-fighting for the first turn or so, get in cover, strike out the second something gets in range.

Scarabs will pop anybody's armor, reliably. Anything stunned vehicle can't survive 5 scarab bases, and we have a lot of ways to glance vehicles to induce that. That's what makes them so amazing.

Scarabs will score a str4-9 hit against rear armour when they charge a vehicle. If they bring this AV to 9 or below, they will start to get glances and penetrating hits. If you reduce a vehicles armour value by 4 (8 "hits", 16 "attacks" vs combat speed vehicles, ~50 "hits" if it went faster). then those scarabs will score enough 3-6 pen rolls to wreck a vehicle, in most cases. Win win

Razerous wrote:Scarabs will score a str4-9 hit against rear armour when they charge a vehicle. If they bring this AV to 9 or below, they will start to get glances and penetrating hits. If you reduce a vehicles armour value by 4 (8 "hits", 16 "attacks" vs combat speed vehicles, ~50 "hits" if it went faster). then those scarabs will score enough 3-6 pen rolls to wreck a vehicle, in most cases. Win win

Meaning that your opponent has to eat through those scarab bases as quickly as possible if he wants to save his stuff.

Which means he's not shooting at any CCBs, Arks, Doom Scythes, etc.

so the scarab build needs to use at least 300 points on spider and scarabs, 90 for necron overlord, and 55 for the solar pulse, so that is a minimum of 550 points.

You can dobel up on more scarabs and more night fighting in larger games.

Spending points on doomschythes and annhilation barges (that word is imposible to write) does not sound so dumn. Also, after the landraider is dead the terminators will not charge the barge/schythe, so that might be a better idea? What do people think?

Niiai wrote:so the scarab build needs to use at least 300 points on spider and scarabs, 90 for necron overlord, and 55 for the solar pulse, so that is a minimum of 550 points.

You can dobel up on more scarabs and more night fighting in larger games.

Spending points on doomschythes and annhilation barges (that word is imposible to write) does not sound so dumn. Also, after the landraider is dead the terminators will not charge the barge/schythe, so that might be a better idea? What do people think?

There's no such thing as a "scarab build". Every Necron list should be running them, period. You don't need spyders to make them work, too. It helps, but if I'm spending 175 points to help out a unit of scarabs alone, I'd rather just take a second unit.

Do scarabs do anything useful against footslogging non-mech armies?

Joe Mama wrote:Do scarabs do anything useful against footslogging non-mech armies?

I went up against a Greentide, and one unit nearly wiped out a group of lootas. They got in combat with them quick. They make excellent tarpits, if nothing else.

You can take a second unit but say if you deploy scarabs 36" away from his table edge, you move 6, and run 3 (averadge) and now make 3 scarab bases you get an aditional reach of 12". Combine that with a charge range of 12 and you will be slingshoting them across the table.

That is a threath of 33. Asuming that some tanks are 3-4" long that means that it is very hard to hide from the scarab + spiders. Night fighting can protect you the first turn. I do not know how many scarabs that gets to hit on the tanks but the spiders give you a bigger charge range.

I do not know if everybody needs them. Dashofpeppers 3 x monoliths and 9 x wraights was kind of infemus on these forums. Now he can have 18 wraights.

If you take a wound from them, you lose your armor save. Against single wound models, they aren't special (other than 4 attacks for only 15pts/base) Against characters with 3-4+ armor saves, yes, they'll be good. They are best against imperial tanks though.

ninja'd

Sasori wrote:

Joe Mama wrote:Do scarabs do anything useful against footslogging non-mech armies?

I went up against a Greentide, and one unit nearly wiped out a group of lootas. They got in combat with them quick. They make excellent tarpits, if nothing else.

Interesting. I haven't looked at the codex yet so I am only going by the little bit I am picking up from the forums. It sounds like they are good against everything, which is crazy.

They are indeed a great tarpit if no armor presents itself. Worth noting that tarpit can get ugly for the enemy if Spyders join the mix, or if you have a barge Overlord doing Sweep Attacks overhead.

I'll be fielding my full compliment of Warwalkers with Scatter Lasers. Guided.

puma713 wrote:I'll be fielding my full compliment of Warwalkers with Scatter Lasers. Guided.

If you are fielding those, instead of fire prisms I consider that a victory onto itself.

Sasori wrote:

puma713 wrote:I'll be fielding my full compliment of Warwalkers with Scatter Lasers. Guided.

If you are fielding those, instead of fire prisms I consider that a victory onto itself.

Bleh, I'm not crazy about Fire Prisms. I get 1 large/small blast vs. 24 Str. 6 shots. Three of those and I can eliminate most beast/scarab hordes and most light transports. I have Fire Dragons and EMLs for the bigger stuff.

One Guided unit of Warwalkers could destroy a scarab swarm fairly easily. And can scout into position.

puma713 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

puma713 wrote:I'll be fielding my full compliment of Warwalkers with Scatter Lasers. Guided.

If you are fielding those, instead of fire prisms I consider that a victory onto itself.

Bleh, I'm not crazy about Fire Prisms. I get 1 large/small blast vs. 24 Str. 6 shots. Three of those and I can eliminate most beast/scarab hordes and most light transports. I have Fire Dragons and EMLs for the bigger stuff.

One Guided unit of Warwalkers could destroy a scarab swarm fairly easily. And can scout into position.

I prefer Prisms over Walkers, in my TAC Mechdar list. Walkers are good, but they are just too fragile, IMO.

puma713 wrote:

Sasori wrote:

puma713 wrote:I'll be fielding my full compliment of Warwalkers with Scatter Lasers. Guided.

If you are fielding those, instead of fire prisms I consider that a victory onto itself.

Bleh, I'm not crazy about Fire Prisms. I get 1 large/small blast vs. 24 Str. 6 shots. Three of those and I can eliminate most beast/scarab hordes and most light transports. I have Fire Dragons and EMLs for the bigger stuff.

One Guided unit of Warwalkers could destroy a scarab swarm fairly easily. And can scout into position.

Well, don't forget that scarabs in terrain get a 3+ cover save. That would be a pain to deal with though.

I feel like everyone is getting a little worked up over these Scarabs. Yes, Entropic Strike is great, 15pts a model, 10 in a unit, etc. etc.

It's not these lil' buggers are anything new. Any mech list will just deploy a couple inches back and either ignore the Scarabs if they're hiding and blast the rest of the army, or just focus fire on them and wipe them out. The rest of the Necron army has a free ticket in that case, yes, but your standard IG mech list is definitely not scared of a bunch of AP - Autocannons.

If the Necrons go second, the opponent can do his normal thing and worry about the Scarabs next turn. With the number of template weapons IG can bring, I don't foresee a sudden rise in Foot Guard lists.

Other factions, though, like Wolves, GKs, Vanilla Marines, etc., won't fold up into a box either. Wolves have Jaws and MLs, GKs have PSyfledreads and Psycannons, and even Vanillas have Rifledreads.

Or maybe I'm just crazy...?

Alerian wrote:

Sabet wrote:Read and behold, the wonder of scarabs.


As you can see the only safety from a scarab attack is to move, and move fast!

...or bring pie plates

Yes, scarabs are good against MEQ mech, but IG has the pie plates to absolutely wreck them turn one. Against DE they are pretty useless, since DE has low AV to start. Against Mechdar, I just don't see the new Cron dex being that strong overall (especially if the Edar bring a Nightspinner). Against Tau, between Tau's shooting and Flechettes, scarabs will not be much of a threat. Against Orks, scarabs pretty much suck, because Orks have the speed to assault out of Trukks/BWs to always get the charge, and Kanwall w/Lootas wil assure scarab death, usually form range.

This leaves Scarabs as the go-to choice for fighting MEQ armor, but their lack of points-effeiciency against Xenos/IG is glaring. For this reason, I do not see Triple-scarab + spider lists being a standard build. The cost too much for what they bring, when facing non-MEQ lists.

Yikes..

The ability to seize on a 4+ with Imotehk and the sheer ease to turn the game into night fighting, means a slow gumpy IG mechline is VERY vulnerable to scarabs. Essentially they only need to make contact with your heavy vehicles by turn two and you are essentially being torn apart by your own low AV all game.

Still. You have to admit these scarabs are good. I just did the math for fun, took me around 5 minutes. Probably less. Its a little help for everyone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But yeah, if a vehicle hasn't moved, its toast. Period.

I recognize their potential. But I'm not as afraid/impressed as a lot of people on the interwebs. Lol.

Honestly I'm looking at scarabs and outside of an 'alpha strike' I don't see the being all that powerful.

Most troops out there are 1w so even against MEQs entropic strike really doesn't do anything. HQs are about the only thing that this maters against as they have multiple wounds, but most of them also have invuln saves so it just ends up being an inconveniance (against Crowe and Mephiston this can be very good, though). Palladins would also worry a bit....but they have to fail a save first so good luck with this working reliably.

Against Mech IG (or even other mech forces out there) they also may struggle as a lot of blasts are S6+ so cause x2 wounds and Instant Death. So unless you have cover, a battle cannon can easily clean out an entire squads.

Hellhounds, Flamestorms, Incinerators and other S6 templates just eat them for breakfast as well.

Even then regular flamers, small blasts, and S6 weapons with lots of shots(multilasers, scatterlasers, assault cannons, Pysbolt Heavy Bolters, Autocannons) will hurt a ton as well.

Scarabs realistically will only get one shot to hurt vehicles before they are burned, bomb, or shot to pieces. Of course this is all theory, but I've been playing long enough that I'm confident in that prediction.

I'm not worried about scarabs at all, there are much more scarier things in the codex than the mechanical bugs.