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Necrosis wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Then it's wrong, because they do not have Leman Russes readily available to them. Most PDFs do not even have Leman Russes available to them.

Arbities are not PDF. Get your facts straight.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/PDF

No friggin' crap, sherlock.

The Adeptus Arbites, however, would not have access to bloody Leman Russes.

Kanluwen wrote:
No friggin' crap, sherlock.

The Adeptus Arbites, however, would not have access to bloody Leman Russes.

Then why where you talking about PDF? Cause I wasn't.
Now I have given sources to say that they do. Yet you fail to provide any sources.

Kanluwen wrote:Manchu is using what, currently, is the Sisters of Battle's order of battle. Notice: there's no bikers, no ninja Sisters, no Marksman Bolters, etc.

And I would believe that this matters, why? What fits within the Sisters != only what's present in C:WH. Manchu made a claim otherwise.

Oh and as a sidenote?

The "Leman Russes" bit comes from Ian Watson's crummy Jaq Draco book series.

Y'know, the only novels in the Black Library catalogue that still acknowledge Squats as existing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Manchu is using what, currently, is the Sisters of Battle's order of battle. Notice: there's no bikers, no ninja Sisters, no Marksman Bolters, etc.

And I would believe that this matters, why? What fits within the Sisters != only what's present in C:WH.

So let's throw out every other source of background material that's built up the Sisters as exactly what is presented in C:WH, since it doesn't fit your view?

No dice.

Melissia wrote:Oh yes you are. Unless you're going to try and claim you know exactly what GW has in mind, you are working with your OWN ideas on how they are and how they should be. And if you DO want to claim that, insert lol here.

Kanluwen wrote:Manchu is using what, currently, is the Sisters of Battle's order of battle. Notice: there's no bikers, no ninja Sisters, no Marksman Bolters, etc.

Ah, there you go. I'll sharpen the point a bit. I'm starting with the premise: Sisters need strengthening and the main problem is having to share their dex. But they are part of the Ecclesiarchy and losing those kinds of units would be a shame and not true to their fluff. So what I'm working on is how to keep the freaks and still make it a Sisters-focused dex. What you're doing is inventing specific units.

Necrosis wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
No friggin' crap, sherlock.

The Adeptus Arbites, however, would not have access to bloody Leman Russes.

Then why where you talking about PDF? Cause I wasn't.
Now I have given sources to say that they do. Yet you fail to provide any sources.

Do I need to say this in French or something?

The Adeptus Arbites would not have access to something such as a Leman Russ because of the fact that Leman Russes are earmarked for Imperial Guard regiments.

At best, they would have some sort of local AFV such as the Usurper or Reaver patterns that were made on Urdesh. Y'know, the kind of equipment that you see in PDF regiments.

Kanluwen wrote:So let's throw out every other source of background material that's built up the Sisters as exactly what is presented in C:WH, since it doesn't fit your view?

No dice.

No, because that idea is stupid. Stop acting like Sisters have no room for expansion beyond C:WH's current army list, because I don't buy that for an instant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Manchu wrote:So what I'm working on is how to keep the freaks and still make it a Sisters-focused dex. What you're doing is inventing specific units.

No, what I did was make the Sisters/Ecclesiarchy into a fifth edition army book. What you're doing is trying to create a third edition army book .

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/The_Adeptus_Arbites
Here is another source that agrees with me.
Shall I go find more?

Melissia wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:So let's throw out every other source of background material that's built up the Sisters as exactly what is presented in C:WH, since it doesn't fit your view?

No dice.

No, because that idea is stupid. Stop acting like Sisters have no room for expansion beyond C:WH's current army list, because I don't buy that for an instant.

I'm not saying that or acting like that, Melissia.

If they're going to be expanded, it will most likely be in the direction that they're already established in. As a short ranged force that specializes in flame based weaponry and can have Inquisitorial support.

... which does not contradict anything I have put into my codex, save that I removed the Inquisition with a note that I would want the Inquisition put into their own codex along with the allies rules so that the codex can be balanced around allies WITHOUT trying to balance the Sisters around having Inquisition units in the codex.

Melissia wrote:Stop acting like Sisters have no room for expansion beyond C:WH's current army list, because I don't buy that for an instant.

No one is saying that. You're arguing with no one as far as that's concerned.

Melissa wrote:No, what I did was make the Sisters/Ecclesiarchy into a fifth edition army book. What you're doing is trying to create a third edition army book .

No, what you did is make a fandex. What I'm doing is considering how to re-establish a product line.

Necrosis wrote:http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/The_Adeptus_Arbites
Here is another source that agrees with me.
Shall I go find more?

Which again uses Ian Watson's "Chaos Child" as a reference source.

Thus: Your point is moot. Especially if you didn't know that Leman Russes are earmarked for Imperial Guard regiments, or that the "army" that the Adeptus Arbites can field is their elite so called "Suppression Squads".

@Necrosis: 40k wikis are not legitimate sources.

The only one that would "technically" count as a legit source is Lexicanum, but even then it's sketchy because they do nothing but collate all the sources available across all editions.

Manchu wrote:No one is saying that. You're arguing with no one as far as that's concerned.

Except for those whom aretrying to claim that my codex does not utilize the Sisters' core concepts and themes becuase it adds in new units.

Which, by the way, you did claim.

Manchu wrote:No, what you did is make a fandex. What I'm doing is considering how to re-establish a product line.

And you are failing, because your suggestion does not fit in with the current edition.

Then I suggest you all read Shira Calpurnia novels? They are mention there.
Also try Execution Hour and Nightbringer.

Lex is the only one that I look at. But Lex does make a lot of assumptions between the statements that they can cite.

pretre wrote:I think it's the first time in weeks we haven't been trying to cut each other.

DAMN YOU! You see what you did, saying that?

Necrosis wrote:Then I suggest you all read Shira Calpurnia novels? They are mention there.

I really look forward to this coming out actually!


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Melissia wrote:Except for those whom aretrying to claim that my codex does not utilize the Sisters' core concepts and themes becuase it adds in new units. Which, by the way, you did claim.

Nope. What I did was claim that your invented units do not match the core concept. (You got it backwards.)

Manchu wrote:And you are failing, because your suggestion does not fit in with the current edition.

FINALLY, on-topic. How do you mean?

Necrosis wrote:Then I suggest you all read Shira Calpurnia novels? They are mention there.
Also try Execution Hour and Nightbringer.

Notice the ones you're discussing.

The Shira Calpurnia books? They're supposedly taking place on a major portworld of importance to the Imperial Navy. Of course they're going to have better equipment, just out of the location.

Execution Hour I saw no reference of Adeptus Arbites Leman Russes, at all.

. . . nevermind . . . I was getting Traitor's Hand confused with the EXCELLENT (but totally discredited) Inquisition Wars series . . .

They've never had them anywhere I've seen, other than "Chaos Child".

But they also had friggin' Vortex Grenades so...

Kanluwen wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Then I suggest you all read Shira Calpurnia novels? They are mention there.
Also try Execution Hour and Nightbringer.

Notice the ones you're discussing.

The Shira Calpurnia books? They're supposedly taking place on a major portworld of importance to the Imperial Navy. Of course they're going to have better equipment, just out of the location.

Execution Hour I saw no reference of Adeptus Arbites Leman Russes, at all.

And have you read nightbringer?
No.
Hence why you left it out.
Until you can provide me a source that shows what they can take in their army my point stands.
The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites is always a lord of terra. You can bet that they have Leman Rushes.

@Necrosis: Is there any source that says Eldar don't use Leman Russ tanks? Well, until you can find one . . . Sorry to be kind of snarky here, but that line of argument is getting kind of old.

Manchu wrote:@Necrosis: Is there any source that says Eldar don't use Leman Russ tanks? Well, until you can find one . . . Sorry to be kind of snarky here, but that line of argument is getting kind of old.

Can you find me a source that says they do.
Cause I find more then source that says Arbite use Leman Russ.

Necrosis wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Then I suggest you all read Shira Calpurnia novels? They are mention there.
Also try Execution Hour and Nightbringer.

Notice the ones you're discussing.

The Shira Calpurnia books? They're supposedly taking place on a major portworld of importance to the Imperial Navy. Of course they're going to have better equipment, just out of the location.

Execution Hour I saw no reference of Adeptus Arbites Leman Russes, at all.

And have you read nightbringer?
No.
Hence why you left it out.
Until you can provide me a source that shows what they can take in their army my point stands.
The Grand Provost Marshal of the Adeptus Arbites is always a lord of Terra. You can bet that they have Leman Russes.

You know who else is a Lord of Terra?
The Inquisitorial Representative.

Does that mean Inquisitors ride around in Leman Russes and fire Rhinos out of their ass?

Of course not.

Kanluwen wrote:
You know who else is a Lord of Terra?
The Inquisitorial Representative.

Does that mean Inquisitors ride around in Leman Russes and fire Rhinos out of their ass?

Of course not.

An Inquisitor can ride in what ever he wants.

Manchu wrote:Nope. What I did was claim that your invented units do not match the core concept. (You got it backwards.)

Which, itself, is a laughably false claim, but I won't argue it here. That discussion belongs in a different thread (And you can try to argue that there if you really want).

Manchu wrote:FINALLY, on-topic. How do you mean?

Fifth edition is what the overwhelming majority of people play. If you aren't creating a fifth edition codex, you aren't doing a good job re-establishing the army, because quite frankly it just wouldn't fit in with the rest of hte codices. It wouldn't do as good a job at sparking interest, and therefor it wouldn't sell well enough.

The primary defining feature of a fifth edition codex is CHOICE. C:SM has seven different HQ units, eight different Elites choices, two troops choices (not including bikes), seven Fast Attack choices, and eight Heavy Support choices. C:IG has a similar amount of units, though a good deal of them are variants. All of this means that GW can sell more models, and therefor make a better profit.

The secondary defining feature is that they push the boundries of the codex. C:IG dramatically reduced the cost of Guardsmen, added Leman Russ squadrons, brand new vehicle variants, Valkyries and Vendettas, and so on and so forth. They added in Orders, and a crap-ton of new ideas, pushing the boundry of the codex and enticing people to buy more models, whether it be more infantry, more tanks, more artilery, their new plastic valks, or all of the above.

This idea has neither of these. It's just... bland compared to ANY of the fifth edition codices.

Necrosis wrote:Can you find me a source that says they do.
Cause I find more then source that says Arbite use Leman Russ.

What were they again? I thought it was just Chaos Child, which has been knocked out of canon.

Manchu wrote:

Necrosis wrote:Can you find me a source that says they do.
Cause I find more then source that says Arbite use Leman Russ.

What were they again? I thought it was just Chaos Child, which has been knocked out of canon.

Try reading nightbringer.